The Lord's Storehouse: A Divine Principle of Meeting Needs

[pogi]

Crazy idea I had the other day that I want to throw out there into the ether.  

How would you feel if in the up-coming general conference President Nelson announced another huge change, this time in relation to tithing .  It would look like this -

Words of the prophet: 

"Through the use of wise financial practices and principles of self-reliance, the church has secured enough funds to support itself financially for the foreseeable future.  No, the law of tithing is not being abolished with this news, but will be refocused on principles outlined in scripture for the purposes of "administering to the poor and the needy (D&C 42:34).   In an effort to ignite a spirit of service and charity and recommit our members to the law of tithing in lifting our fellow men and helping to aid in the spirit of missionary work, from this time forward tithing funds donated to the bishop will be collected, recorded, consecrated and returned to the members with the direction to use it for the purposes of lifting those in need.   The church will provide a list of vetted charities and worthy organizations where your funds can be used for much good.  Or, if you wish, use these consecrated funds as directed by the spirit to serve those in need around you - to help family in a time of need, to donate to a charity close to your heart, to donate to medical science or to improve stewardship over the earth by donating to environmental causes which affect us all.  By so doing, we hope that our members will become an unprecedented force for good in the world that will draw people unto us and draw attention to our cause in new and magnified ways, and instill a greater sense of purpose and meaning through direct experience with the utilization of your tithing to bless and minister to others in unprecedented ways.  Allowing our members to serve in ways which may not have been financially possible before. 

While it is not required, where possible, we encourage members to not simply give money, but to donate time and talents which can be supported by your tithing.  This can help finance your own service, humanitarian, or medical missions locally and abroad.   If there comes a time (unlikely) where the church needs additional funds to support its efforts, it may ask for a percentage of your tithing be paid directly to the church.  Until then, we expect you to go out and serve and do much good."

I think this would be a game changer for the church in terms of missionary efforts and igniting a spirit in its membership in really profound ways and in making a greater impact for good on the world.     

It seems to fall in line with the principles outlined in this article about the purposes of the storehouse:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/lords-storehouse-a-divine-principle-of-meeting-needs?lang=eng

Quote

After the Prophet Joseph Smith moved to Kirtland, Ohio, he immediately set the Church in order. Moving forward under direction from the Lord, he appointed the Church’s first bishop and defined many policies and procedures.

One such procedure dealt with taking care of the poor and needy at a time the Church was experiencing growth and many poor were arriving in Kirtland.

“And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken.

“And inasmuch as ye impart of your substance unto the poor, ye will do it unto me; and they shall be laid before the bishop of my church. …

“Therefore, the residue shall be kept in my storehouse, to administer to the poor and the needy” (D&C 42:30–31, 34).

This principle, often referred to as the Lord’s storehouse, is as important today as it was when Joseph Smith received it in 1831.

What is the Lord's storehouse?  Could such a change in the law of tithing be supported by how "storehouse" is defined?  Lets see:

Quote

President Thomas S. Monson said: “The Lord’s storehouse includes the time, talents, skills, compassion, consecrated material, and financial means of faithful Church members.” (“Guiding Principles of Personal and Family Welfare,” Ensign, Sept. 1986, 5).

We are the Lords storehouse.  According to Thomas S. Monson.

Quote

The Lord’s storehouse “receives, holds in trust, and dispenses consecrated offerings of the Saints. The storehouse may be as simple or sophisticated as circumstances require. It may be a list of available services, money in an account, food in a pantry, or commodities in a building. A storehouse is established when faithful members consecrate to the bishop their time, talents, skills, compassion, materials, and financial means in caring for the poor and in building up the kingdom of God on the earth.

Quote

 

“Every man seeking the interest of his neighbor, and doing all things with an eye single to the glory of God” (D&C 82:18–19).

The message of the doctrine of the Lord’s storehouse is clear. It is not just bishops, Relief Society presidents, or quorum leaders who have responsibility to take care of the poor and needy. The Lord needs the time and talents of all members to look after His children. We all have a responsibility not only to become self-reliant but also to help others do the same.

In Doctrine and Covenants 78:3 the Lord reminds Latter-day Saints that “the time has come, and is now at hand; and behold, and lo, it must needs be that there be an organization of my people, in regulating and establishing the affairs of the storehouse for the poor of my people, both in this place and in the land of Zion.”

President Monson said the abundant life does not consist of a glut of luxury. It does not make itself content with commercially produced pleasure, mistaking it for joy and happiness. “To find real happiness, we must seek for it in a focus outside ourselves,” he said. “No one has learned the meaning of living until he has surrendered his ego to the service of his fellowmen. Service to others is akin to duty, the fulfillment of which brings true joy” (“The Lord’s Way,” April 1990 general conference).

 

Does anyone know the direct email of President Nelson to put this bug in his ear like Emma Smith did with Joseph in relation to the Wow? 

What think ye?  Could this work in the church?  Does it meet the doctrinal principles of tithing?

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by pogi

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, pogi said:

How would you feel if in the up-coming general conference President Monson announced

I would tune in just to see President Monson announce this.

[pogi]

5 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I would tune in just to see President Monson announce this.

Yes, that would be something indeed!

Oops.  I had President Monson on my mind after reading his quotes about the storehouse.  It has been edited. 

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, pogi said:

I had President Monson on my mind after reading his quotes about the storehouse.

That's what I figured, but I couldn't resit.

[OGHoosier]

Don't see why it wouldn't work. Don't intend to say it should be done either.

Edited January 30, 2023 by OGHoosier

[pogi]

14 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

Don't see why it wouldn't work. Don't intend to say it should be done either.

I don't see why it shouldn't be done either.  Perhaps they simply have not prayerfully considered the idea yet.  Maybe they would find it a great idea.  I think it would have such a monumental impact on the church with deeper purpose and meaning in tithing, and with the added benefit of improved PR over church finances, and would also greatly improve exposure to the church for missionary purposes.   It would light Mormonism on fire in a time where there is very stagnant growth and increasingly waning trust and enthusiasm of offering tithes to a pile of money just sitting there with no known purpose.  A hint would be nice, at least - something that resembles the purposes outlined in scripture.   

I think the excitement and enthusiasm over this change would engender commitment like never before.  It would change the lives of the members in really meaningful ways by offering them greater opportunity for service, and it would change the lives of those we serve. 

Quote

“Therefore, the residue shall be kept in my storehouse, to administer to the poor and the needy” (D&C 42:30–31, 34).

We sure got a lotta reside just sitting' there.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by pogi

[OGHoosier]

20 minutes ago, pogi said:

I think it would have such a monumental impact on the church with deeper purpose and meaning in tithing, and with the added benefit of improved PR over church finances, and would also greatly improve exposure to the church for missionary purposes.   It would light Mormonism on fire in a time where there is very stagnant growth and increasingly waning trust and enthusiasm of offering tithes to a pile of money just sitting there with no known purpose.

I'm gonna be honest with you, I doubt it would. 

Quote

We sure got a lotta reside just sitting' there. 

Not really. An investment portfolio consists of circulating capital, which is an essential underpinning of our current economy. The money isn't sitting in a Scrooge McDuck vault, it's circulating. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by OGHoosier

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I'm gonna be honest with you, I doubt it would. 

Are you kidding me?  This news would light a needed fire - unless I am just a really weird and uncommon dude.  Being directly involved in humanitarian efforts has that effect on people.  It would have lasting power because it would introduce new meaningful service opportunities for members in perpetuity, and opportunities for cherished stories and testimony builders in relation to tithing.   Putting your consecrated funds into an investment portfolio which is losing billions currently, and with no known purpose - not so much!

I you are right that the membership would not be excited and inspired with increased meaning and purpose over this, then that is a sad commentary on our membership and the thought just depresses me.

18 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

Not really. An investment portfolio consists of circulating capital, which is an essential underpinning of our current economy. The money isn't sitting in a Scrooge McDuck vault, it's circulating. 

You are right, it is not just sitting there, it is currently shrinking in circulation.  Inspiring!  I can't wait to give my consecrated money to circulate around in the hands of the corporate world!   Or...we could use it to create meaningful direct life experiences in relation to service of our fellow-men.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by pogi

[JustAnAustralian]

Good luck wrangling with the tax implications of that.

[OGHoosier]

28 minutes ago, pogi said:

Are you kidding me?  This news would light a needed fire - unless I am just a really weird and uncommon dude.  Being directly involved in humanitarian efforts has that effect on people.  It would have lasting power because it would introduce new meaningful service opportunities for members in perpetuity, and opportunities for cherished stories and testimony builders in relation to tithing.   Putting your consecrated funds into an investment portfolio which is losing billions currently, and with no known purpose - not so much!

I you are right that the membership would not be excited and inspired with increased meaning and purpose over this, then that is a sad commentary on our membership and the thought just depresses me.

You are right, it is not just sitting there, it is currently shrinking in circulation.  Inspiring!  I can't wait to give my consecrated money to circulate around in the hands of the corporate world!   Or...we could use it to create meaningful direct life experiences in relation to service of our fellow-men.  

I'll be real with you, @pogi, I think the church's capital assets are going to be important, I think they are needed, and I think idealistic proposals to do away with them are short-sighted. And that's exactly how I see this.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

The response in my stake would be: 'Who the hell has time and energy to figure out what to do with their own tithing. That's the Brethren's job!'

[pogi]

11 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The response in my stake would be: 'Who the hell has time and energy to figure out what to do with their own tithing. That's the Brethren's job!'

That is funny, but sad to me. 

 

[pogi]

42 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Good luck wrangling with the tax implications of that.

That's what I hire tax people for. 

[pogi]

24 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I'll be real with you, @pogi, I think the church's capital assets are going to be important, I think they are needed, and I think idealistic proposals to do away with them are short-sighted. And that's exactly how I see this.  

Granted, the brethren may have some prophetic, long-sighted, seeristic vision with a specific purpose for these funds, but they are not letting that on to us.  I don't think the PR problem with the church in relation to finances  is going away soon.  Membership continues to be stagnant and declining.   Barring a specific propheticly important need for these moneys I don't think my proposal is short-sighted.  I think I have provided many good reasons as to why I think it would have staying-power with long-term benefits for the members in perpetuity.  Having a vision, a purpose and meaning that we can be directly involved in is known to offer a stronger sense of commitment from employees.  People work harder with when they feel that they are contributing to a higher purpose.  For many, many members, it is really hard to see that purpose in tithing right now.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

33 minutes ago, pogi said:

That is funny, but sad to me. 

I don't find it funny at all. Not all Saints enjoy the levels of comfort and affluence that appear to be the seedbed of your thought bubble.

16 minutes ago, pogi said:

For many, many members, it is really hard to see that purpose in tithing right now.  

Again, you are speaking from a position of great privilege. I can walk into a chapel that has electricity, running water, heating and cooling, free wi-fi, etc. We can afford to send our young people on missions knowing that the experience will be heavily subsidised. We have scriptures and other Church materials. We have a temple we can worship in and an accommodation building near the temple that we can stay in, with a room tariff that is about 15 per cent of what we would need to pay for a comparable hotel room -- all provided by tithing. (And for members who struggle to afford the travel costs to the temple, the stake provides free travel for 20 people about ten times per year -- again, from tithing.)

The issues you are raising are ones that in 20 years in my stake, I have never once heard a member here raise.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Hamba Tuhan

[pogi]

27 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't find it funny at all.

Then I guess I misread what I thought was an attempt at a humorous-tongue-in-cheek comment poking at the unfortunate realities of busy human life.  Hence, "funny but sad".  My bad! 

It wouldn't have to take any more time.  For those who have no time and simply want to donate, they could choose from a pre-vetted list of charities selected by the church (as I mentioned) to donate to each month.  Charities usually make it pretty easy to donate.   Easy peasy.  But for those who have more time, they could get more directly involved, perhaps even setting aside a month per year to fund a medical mission abroad.  I would love that.  Can't afford it right now though. 

27 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Not all Saints enjoy the levels of comfort and affluence that appear to be the seedbed of your thought bubble.

Hamba, I come from a single-income home on a nurses salary, supporting a spouse and two-kids with a mortgage in Utah.  Surely, I have no idea what you are talking about.  My tithing is pretty meager, but boy would I love to be able to get more directly involved with it in service. 

Either way, tithing requires no set level of comfort and affluence.  10% is 10%  Regardless of ones income, that is 10% more opportunity to serve in ways that were previously impossible.  That is 10% more opportunity to connect with ones community, etc. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by pogi

[Hamba Tuhan]

25 minutes ago, pogi said:

Granted, the brethren may have some prophetic, long-sighted, seeristic vision with a specific purpose for these funds, but they are not letting that on to us.

Nephi in regards to preparing the small plates c.2,400 years before Joseph Smith allowed the Book of Lehi to go missing: 'Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not. But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men'.

Quite possibly, some of his people may have questioned Nephi's decision to forge, form, and then engrave an excess set of plates.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

I don't see why it shouldn't be done either.  Perhaps they simply have not prayerfully considered the idea yet.  Maybe they would find it a great idea.  I think it would have such a monumental impact on the church with deeper purpose and meaning in tithing, and with the added benefit of improved PR over church finances, and would also greatly improve exposure to the church for missionary purposes.   It would light Mormonism on fire in a time where there is very stagnant growth and increasingly waning trust and enthusiasm of offering tithes to a pile of money just sitting there with no known purpose.  A hint would be nice, at least - something that resembles the purposes outlined in scripture.   

I think the excitement and enthusiasm over this change would engender commitment like never before.  It would change the lives of the members in really meaningful ways by offering them greater opportunity for service, and it would change the lives of those we serve. 

We sure got a lotta reside just sitting' there.  

Pogi, bottom up, bottom up! Hopefully you get what I'm sayin'.  

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Nephi in regards to preparing the small plates c.2,400 years before Joseph Smith allowed the Book of Lehi to go missing: 'Wherefore, the Lord hath commanded me to make these plates for a wise purpose in him, which purpose I know not. But the Lord knoweth all things from the beginning; wherefore, he prepareth a way to accomplish all his works among the children of men'.

Quite possibly, some of his people may have questioned Nephi's decision to forge, form, and then engrave an excess set of plates.

That’s a good analogy.

If the brethren came out and stated as much, that could potentially inspire more faith in the members.   If they were to say that we would love to start giving tithing to charity, but the Lord commanded us to save and invest for a specific purpose to be revealed…that would help.  As it stands, we are left in the dark as to any commandment from God to that effect.  

[pogi]

13 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Pogi, bottom up, bottom up! Hopefully you get what I'm sayin'.  

Bottoms up?  Either this is about skinny dipping or drinking beer.  Both sound enjoyable right now! 

No, I get ya.  I don’t pretend to imagine that this will ever make its way to the brethren and inspire them to make the change, but it’s fun to dream.  

It does raise questions for me about the purpose of the “storehouse” though.

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 minutes ago, pogi said:

Either this is about skinny dipping or drinking beer.  Both sound enjoyable right now! 

I can think of few things less enticing than beer (or alcohol of any kind), but I'm always up for skinny dipping! Two Saturdays ago, a couple of mates from Church and I headed down to the river after an evening event. The water was high and reasonably warm, and though there was no moon, the overcast sky did a fine job of reflecting city lights for us. We very easily swam downstream to the weir and sat on top in the warm, forest-scented air for a great discussion on matters both spiritual and trivial. Then it was time for the return swim. Because the water was high, the current was swift, and I thought several times that I wasn't going to make it, but I couldn't endure the thought of my bloated, naked body getting stuck on the weir, so I prayed for strength and swam harder.

I was a bit sore for church the next day, but it was 100 per cent worth it!

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I can think of few things less enticing than beer (or alcohol of any kind), but I'm always up for skinny dipping! Two Saturdays ago, a couple of mates from Church and I headed down to the river after an evening event. The water was high and reasonably warm, and though there was no moon, the overcast sky did a fine job of reflecting city lights for us. We very easily swam downstream to the weir and sat on top in the warm, forest-scented air for a great discussion on matters both spiritual and trivial. Then it was time for the return swim. Because the water was high, the current was swift, and I thought several times that I wasn't going to make it, but I couldn't endure the thought of my bloated, naked body getting stuck on the weir, so I prayed for strength and swam harder.

I was a bit sore for church the next day, but it was 100 per cent worth it!

It is strange, rare and unusual sightings of great whites (like - really white - rumps un-kissed by the sun) cresting in the moon light on the Colorado River seem to always coincide with my visits to Moab, Utah.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

18 minutes ago, pogi said:

It is strange, rare and unusual sightings of great whites (like - really white - rumps un-kissed by the sun) cresting in the moon light on the Colorado River seem to always coincide with my visits to Moab, Utah.  

Nice. It's the way we were made to be in water. Though I suspect this is not the time of year for it in your parts ... 

[ksfisher]

14 hours ago, pogi said:

That’s a good analogy.

If the brethren came out and stated as much, that could potentially inspire more faith in the members.   If they were to say that we would love to start giving tithing to charity, but the Lord commanded us to save and invest for a specific purpose to be revealed…that would help.  As it stands, we are left in the dark as to any commandment from God to that effect.  

Sounds like it comes down yo trust then.  Do you trust those whom the Lord has called or not. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

Sounds like it comes down yo trust then.  Do you trust those whom the Lord has called or not. 

It is not that black and white for me.  Trusting that one is called of God shouldn't illicit implicit trust in everything they say and do.  We have to keep in mind that prophets can be called of God and be fallible at the same time.  They are not mutually exclusive. 

Also, If they have given no reason or explanation for the funds, then anything we imagine about it is entirely speculation based and has nothing to do with trust whatsoever.  Why should I trust one speculation over another when the prophets themselves are silent about it?  

I trust that the prophets don't have some nefarious scheme planned.  I don't think anyone is lining their pockets here.  But do I have absolute confidence that brethren are not just following a specific financial plan that they have used for a very long time which has worked really, really well - so why stop now - without any specific intention or plan for the funds they have built up?  No, I don't.  I can't trust in something they have not told anyone about.  I don't like to place implicit trust in speculative ideas.