Mama Says about Dinosaurs

[Pyreaux]

This theory is based on the LDS belief that in the Creation of Earth was made out of pre-existing materials. From this my mother believes the Earth is both old and new, both a young earth created 6000 years ago, but recycled from a world billions of years old. So, dinosaur bones and other fossils are ancient alien bones. As a child, I always thought it was interesting. Though I've only sparingly heard regular evolutionists and creation scientists yammer about geology so much before I lose interest. So, I'd suspect there could be flaws in this idea. I don't know what the current state of Creation Science/Intelligent Design theory is in the LDS sphere, and how unique doctrines of the church, like Creato ex Materia, can influence the arguments.

Is Mama right or is Mama wrong?

Edit: Found Fairwiki entry that repeats it, only to say paleontology has issues with it.

Quote

Question: How do dinosaurs fit into God's plan?

The core of the problem is that the scriptures and the revelations simply don't talk about dinosaurs
My seminary class has questions regarding the dinosaurs. They seem to be stuck on "where" and "when." How do they fit into the creation story presented by the scriptures?

Your seminary students are probably hung up on the following issues:

• Scientists say dinosaurs lived and died millions of years ago, and became extinct due to a cataclysmic event, probably an asteroid that struck the earth. This is what your students are taught in school, because it reflects the scientific consensus.
• It is generally believed by many members of the Church that the fall of Adam and Eve took place around 4,000 B.C., and that before this there was no death in the world.
• How do we square #1 with #2? How do we account for fossils that appear to be millions of years old, if we conclude there was no death before about 6,000 years ago?

The core of the problem is that the scriptures and the revelations simply don't talk about dinosaurs, and are inconclusive about whether there was physical death for other organisms before Adam and Eve's fall. This leaves each person to decide for themselves how the fossils we have discovered fit into the timeline of the plan of salvation. There generally two possible solutions that have been adopted by intelligent, faithful Latter-day Saints:

• Some take the approach that the earth is very old, that there was death before the Fall, and that the dinosaurs lived and died in a era long before the story of Adam and Eve begins.
• Some have reasoned that there was no death before the Fall, so the dinosaurs must have lived alongside Adam and the early patriarchs, perhaps dying in (maybe even after) the Flood. (See: Death before the fall main article FAIRWiki link.)
• Some, based on the teachings of Joseph Smith that the earth was organized out of existing material rather than created from nothing, have even concluded that dinosaurs never existed on this world, and that the bones we've found are actually from the destroyed remains of other planets. This is not a popularly held notion today, and it contradicts the findings of modern paleontology. In fact, Brigham Young University has a paleontology museum.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

So, I'd suspect there could be flaws in this idea

There are a couple of issues with it.  The previous world would have had to be transported in massive pieces in order to explain the way the bodies are laid out in the sedimentary layers, keeping relatively intact skeletons in relatively consistent layers (older types of skeletons laid down in older rock below younger species in newer rock…Triassic dinosaurs are not mixed in with Cretaceous dinosaurs and no dinosaurs at all below a certain depth). So it couldn’t have just been broken pieces mashed together with some parts containing old bones.  They would be much more haphazard, random formations.

Another issue is just the combining of such masses would generate quite a bit of heat, which would show up in the rock record even if it somehow did not manage to melt all the rock together in the combining process.

The whole process would have to be miraculous in our view anyway, because moving enough mass for a whole planet, breaking it apart and then ‘congealing’ it together would normally result in a completely molten mass to begin with.  So it could be explained away by God wanting the dinosaurs to appear as if they had arisen and perished over time on this planet, but one has to ask why he would do that.

There are some other issues I can’t remember now, I believe.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Does anyone have this theory besides some Latter-day Saints?

You would have to believe there is life on other planets first off, that God has been creating worlds for a long time, and that he doesn’t create from nothing…at least not at the point of the earth’s creation, and that he recycles worlds for some reason.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

I don’t buy it. I’ve seen too many dinosaurs in situ, including a baby stegosaurus with incredibly delicate bones, and I’ve walked alongside dinosaur footprints. Plus everything Calm wrote. 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Hamba Tuhan

[Pyreaux]

You can't imagine any reason? Not even to give us fossil fuel?

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

You can't imagine any reason? Not even to give us fossil fuel?

Fossil fuel is not from dinosaurs (think peat and plankton).  Why include dinosaurs?  Or are you suggesting they occurred on the other world and so were just transported along with the deposits of fossil fuel?

Are you suggesting the fossil fuel was made on the older world and then somehow transported here (maybe God just took another world’s crust apart and fitted it back together again over the core of Earth)?  
 

Or are you suggesting the old earth had dead plant and animal remains like dinosaur bones, which were brought here and then were changed in a ramped up process into fossil fuel?

I am trying to imagine how gas and liquids remained in place during transport. I though moving just bones without disturbing the soil around them would be hard.  Sounds to me like creatio ex nihilo would be easier.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Pyreaux]

Nothing necessarily must "move". What if the planet was right here, dead, wiped out by a meteor, and the planet is a clean slate to start Genesis in 4000 BC?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Calm]

What do you mean by dead?  No life or a ‘dead’ core so no geothermal energy or something else?  Any ideas on why it died and what type of life was there?  Was it up to the age of modern man and God wiped the earth clean of all life forms to give it to men since it isn’t only the dinosaurs that are a problem, but many other life forms, including primates.

Was this old earth broken up or just reseeded?

If broken up, you have all the same issues of putting it back together looking like it wasn’t broken up.

If never broken up, but life was simply reseeded (maybe with some mulching) there would be a geological and possibly archaeological record of extinction.

What would you say the date of Adam is in the new world?  6000 years ago or would you go with the appearance of modern man?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

... the planet is clean slate to start Genesis in 4000 BC.

I also don't feel compelled in any way to embrace Archbishop Ussher's chronology, even if it makes appearances in Restoration texts.

[Pyreaux]

Re-terraformed or reseeded after a mass extinction event.

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Re-terraformed or reseeded after a mass extinction event.

Where is the record of this extinction and reseeding event then?  For example in the layers of glacial ice?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Reseeding is the most logical suggestion, as that would allow below so many feet of dirt to remain intact and just the top so many feet sterilized, though is it a new earth then? (And there is still the problem of no evidence for a gap with no life existing on earth.  Even if reseeded, it would take time to get the earth back up to being identical before the extinction with all the necessary bio organisms large and small in equilibrium more or less..the cycle of life fully restarted so to speak.

It reminds me of a science fiction story where they send humanoid robots off to terraform a planet for humans because humanoid robots are best suited for determining what a human shaped life form would need.  When it’s ready, humans arrive and the robots become their servants…or not perhaps.  Can’t remember it too well as read it probably 50 years ago.  Maybe humans didn’t want to share the planet and wiped out the humanoids.

Why would God scrub the earth clean of life and then reseeded it with identical life forms before presenting it to his children?  Why not just place his children in as is as they were placed in Eden?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Pyreaux]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Where is the record of this extinction and reseeding event then?  For example in the layers of glacial ice?

Aren't there many meteorite impact craters across the earth’s surface, imprinted and preserved in the layers. Perhaps one of them?

[Pyreaux]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why would God scrub the earth clean of life before presenting it to his children?  Why not just place his children in it as they were placed in Eden?

Assuming it was his doing, perhaps life was corrupt or hostel to human life.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Aren't there many meteorite impact craters across the earth’s surface, imprinted and preserved in the layers. Perhaps one of them?

None of them correspond to a disappearance of all life forms. Ice cores go back 800,000 years in the Antarctic.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

There was the Permian extinction event that took out up to 90% of all species at the time iirc.  
 

Quote

Permian-Triassic extinction - 252 million years ago

The cataclysm was the single worst event life on Earth has ever experienced. Over about 60,000 years, 96 percent of all marine species and about three of every four species on land died out.

You have to subscribe so I got this from the google listing, but click on the reader’s view and you may be able to read it.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/mass-extinction

Quote

Some 252 million years ago, life on Earth faced the “Great Dying”: the Permian-Triassic extinction. The cataclysm was the single worst event life on Earth has ever experienced. Over about 60,000 years, 96 percent of all marine species and about three of every four species on land died out. The world’s forests were wiped out and didn’t come back in force until about 10 million years later. Of the five mass extinctions, the Permian-Triassic is the only one that wiped out large numbers of insect species. Marine ecosystems took four to eight million years to recover. (Find out more about the devastation of the Permian-Triassic mass extinction.)

The extinction’s single biggest cause is the Siberian Traps, an immense volcanic complex that erupted more than 720,000 cubic miles of lava across what is now Siberia. The eruption triggered the release of at least 14.5 trillion tons of carbon, more than 2.5 times what’d be unleashed if every last ounce of fossil fuel on Earth were dug up and burned. Adding insult to injury, magma from the Siberian Traps infiltrated coal basins on its way toward the surface, probably releasing even more greenhouse gases such as methane.

The resulting global warming was downright hellish. In the million years after the event, seawater and soil temperatures rose between 25 to 34 degrees Fahrenheit. By 250.5 million years ago, sea surface temperatures at the Equator got as high as 104 degrees Fahrenheit, a hot tub's standard maximum temperature. At the time, almost no fish lived near the Equator.

As temperatures rose, rocks on land weathered more rapidly, hastened by acid rain that formed from volcanic sulfur. Just as in the late Devonian, increased weathering would have brought on anoxia that suffocated the oceans. Climate models suggest that at the time, the oceans lost an estimated 76 percent of their oxygen inventory. These models also suggest that the warming and oxygen loss account for most of the extinction’s species losses.

Volcanoes are apparently the most common cause of mass extinctions.

All these massive extinctions can be found in the rock record.  None have no men on one side of it, suddenly men appearing on the other…nor all life wiped out.  Even the worst left quite a bit a life around.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Pyreaux]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

None of them correspond to a disappearance of all life forms.

Would it not depend on how long it was after they had all disappeared before replaced by similar looking life on Yom 5 in Genesis.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Pyreaux]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

There was the Permian extinction event that took out up to 90% of all species at the time iirc.  
 

You have to subscribe so I got this from the google listing, but click on the reader’s view and you may be able to read it.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/mass-extinction

Volcanoes are apparently the most common cause of mass extinctions.

All these massive extinctions can be found in the rock record.  None have no men on one side of it, suddenly men appearing on the other…nor all life wiped out.  Even the worst left quite a bit a life around.

What are mass extinctions, and what causes them?

In the last 500 million years, life has had to recover from five catastrophic blows. Are humans dealing the planet a sixth?

More than 99 percent of all organisms that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. As new species evolve to fit ever changing ecological niches, older species fade away. But the rate of extinction is far from constant. At least a handful of times in the last 500 million years, 75 to more than 90 percent of all species on Earth have disappeared in a geological blink of an eye in catastrophes we call mass extinctions.

Though mass extinctions are deadly events, they open up the planet for new forms of life to emerge. The most studied mass extinction, which marked the boundary between the Cretaceous and Paleogene periods about 66 million years ago, killed off the nonavian dinosaurs and made room for mammals and birds to rapidly diversify and evolve.

Though the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction is famous for being caused mainly by a huge asteroid, it’s the exception. The single biggest driver of mass extinctions appears to be major changes in Earth’s carbon cycle such as large igneous province eruptions, huge volcanoes that flooded hundreds of thousands of square miles with lava. These eruptions ejected massive amounts of heat-trapping gases such as carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, enabling runaway global warming and related effects such as ocean acidification and anoxia, a loss of dissolved oxygen in water.

Ordovician-Silurian extinction - 444 million years ago

The Ordovician period, from 485 to 444 million years ago, was a time of dramatic changes for life on Earth. Over a 30-million-year stretch, species diversity blossomed, but as the period ended, the first known mass extinction struck. At that time, massive glaciation locked up huge amounts of water in an ice cap that covered parts of a large south polar landmass. The icy onslaught may have been triggered by the rise of North America’s Appalachian Mountains. The large-scale weathering of these freshly uplifted rocks sucked carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and drastically cooled the planet.

As a result, sea levels plummeted by hundreds of feet. Creatures living in shallow waters would have seen their habitats cool and shrink dramatically, dealing a major blow. Whatever life remained recovered haltingly in chemically hostile waters: Once sea levels started to rise again, marine oxygen levels fell, which in turn caused ocean waters to more readily hold onto dissolved toxic metals.

The second worst mass extinction known to science, this event killed an estimated 85 percent of all species. The event took its hardest toll on marine organisms such as corals, shelled brachiopods, eel-like creatures called conodonts, and the trilobites.

Late Devonian extinction - 383-359 million years ago

Starting 383 million years ago, this extinction event eliminated about 75 percent of all species on Earth over a span of roughly 20 million years.

In several pulses across the Devonian, ocean oxygen levels dropped precipitously, which dealt serious blows to conodonts and ancient shelled relatives of squid and octopuses called goniatites. The worst of these pulses, called the Kellwasser event, came about 372 million years ago. Rocks from the period in what’s now Germany show that as oxygen levels plummeted, many reef-building creatures died out, including a major group of sea sponges called the stromatoporoids.

http://web.archive.org/web/20210715160741/https://i.natgeofe.com/n/06adc585-6311-4ded-9c19-0e9d39de21d4/0000015a-1ae2-d412-a97e-fef387e80000.jpg?w=636&h=358

 

4:39

How One Brilliant Woman Mapped the Secrets of the Ocean Floor

Oceanic cartographer Marie Tharp helped prove the theory of continental drift with her detailed maps of the ocean floor. This animation by Rosanna Wan for the Royal Institution tells the fascinating story of Tharp’s groundbreaking work. The Short Film Showcase spo...Read More

It’s been hard to nail down the cause for the late Devonian extinction pulses, but volcanism is a possible trigger: Within a couple million years of the Kellwasser event, a large igneous province called the Viluy Traps erupted 240,000 cubic miles of lava in what is now Siberia. The eruption would have spewed greenhouse gases and sulfur dioxide, which can cause acid rain. Asteroids may also have contributed. Sweden’s 32-mile-wide Siljan crater, one of Earth’s biggest surviving impact craters, formed about 377 million years ago.

Though it may sound surprising, land plants may have been accessories to the crime. During the Devonian, plants hit on several winning adaptations, including the stem-strengthening compound lignin and a full-fledged vascular structure. These traits allowed plants to get bigger—and for their roots to get deeper—than ever before, which would have increased the rate of rock weathering.

The faster rocks weathered, the more excess nutrients flowed from land into the oceans. The influx would have triggered algae growth, and when these algae died, their decay removed oxygen from the oceans to form what are known as dead zones. In addition, the spread of trees would have sucked CO₂ out of the atmosphere, potentially ushering in global cooling.

To add to the puzzle, not only did some creatures go extinct during the late Devonian, but species diversification slowed down during this time. The slowdown may have been caused by the global spread of invasive species, as high sea levels let creatures from previously isolated marine habitats mix and mingle, which let ecosystems around the world homogenize.

Permian-Triassic extinction - 252 million years ago

Some 252 million years ago, life on Earth faced the “Great Dying”: the Permian-Triassic extinction. The cataclysm was the single worst event life on Earth has ever experienced. Over about 60,000 years, 96 percent of all marine species and about three of every four species on land died out. The world’s forests were wiped out and didn’t come back in force until about 10 million years later. Of the five mass extinctions, the Permian-Triassic is the only one that wiped out large numbers of insect species. Marine ecosystems took four to eight million years to recover. (Find out more about the devastation of the Permian-Triassic mass extinction.)

The extinction’s single biggest cause is the Siberian Traps, an immense volcanic complex that erupted more than 720,000 cubic miles of lava across what is now Siberia. The eruption triggered the release of at least 14.5 trillion tons of carbon, more than 2.5 times what’d be unleashed if every last ounce of fossil fuel on Earth were dug up and burned. Adding insult to injury, magma from the Siberian Traps infiltrated coal basins on its way toward the surface, probably releasing even more greenhouse gases such as methane.

The resulting global warming was downright hellish. In the million years after the event, seawater and soil temperatures rose between 25 to 34 degrees Fahrenheit. By 250.5 million years ago, sea surface temperatures at the Equator got as high as 104 degrees Fahrenheit, a hot tub's standard maximum temperature. At the time, almost no fish lived near the Equator.

As temperatures rose, rocks on land weathered more rapidly, hastened by acid rain that formed from volcanic sulfur. Just as in the late Devonian, increased weathering would have brought on anoxia that suffocated the oceans. Climate models suggest that at the time, the oceans lost an estimated 76 percent of their oxygen inventory. These models also suggest that the warming and oxygen loss account for most of the extinction’s species losses.

Triassic-Jurassic extinction - 201 million years ago

Life took a long time to recover from the Great Dying, but once it did, it diversified rapidly. Different reef-building creatures began to take hold, and lush vegetation covered the land, setting the stage for a group of reptiles called the archosaurs: the forerunners of birds, crocodilians, pterosaurs, and the nonavian dinosaurs. But about 201 million years ago, life endured another major blow: the sudden loss of up to 80 percent of all land and marine species.

At the end of the Triassic, Earth warmed an average of between 5 and 11 degrees Fahrenheit, driven by a quadrupling of atmospheric CO₂ levels. This was probably triggered by huge amounts of greenhouse gases from the Central Atlantic Magmatic Province, a large igneous province in central Pangaea, the supercontinent at the time. Remnants of those ancient lava flows are now split across eastern South America, eastern North America, and West Africa. The Central Atlantic Magmatic Province was enormous. Its lava volume could cover the continental U.S. in a quarter-mile of rock.

The uptick in CO₂ acidified the Triassic oceans, making it more difficult for marine creatures to build their shells from calcium carbonate. On land, the dominant vertebrates had been the crocodilians, which were bigger and far more diverse than they are today. Many of them died out. In their wake, the earliest dinosaurs—small, nimble creatures on the ecological periphery—rapidly diversified.

Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction - 66 million years ago

The Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event is the most recent mass extinction and the only one definitively connected to a major asteroid impact. Some 76 percent of all species on the planet, including all nonavian dinosaurs, went extinct.

http://web.archive.org/web/20210715160741/https://i.natgeofe.com/n/f4e08dcf-0da7-4d9f-aa5a-4d4e6637d1ee/00000164-27f6-d726-a5fd-3fff57330000.jpg?w=636&h=358

 

3:32

Dinosaurs 101

Over a thousand dinosaur species once roamed the Earth. Learn which ones were the largest and the smallest, what dinosaurs ate and how they behaved, as well as surprising facts about their extinction.

One day about 66 million years ago, an asteroid roughly 7.5 miles across slammed into the waters off of what is now Mexico’s Yucatán Peninsula at 45,000 miles an hour. The massive impact—which left a crater more than 120 miles wide—flung huge volumes of dust, debris, and sulfur into the atmosphere, bringing on severe global cooling. Wildfires ignited any land within 900 miles of the impact, and a huge tsunami rippled outward from the impact. Overnight, the ecosystems that supported nonavian dinosaurs began to collapse. (Learn more about the last day of the dinosaurs’ reign.)

Global warming fueled by volcanic eruptions at the Deccan Flats in India may have aggravated the event. Some scientists even argue that some of the Deccan Flats eruptions could have been triggered by the impact.

Extinction today

Earth is currently experiencing a biodiversity crisis. Recent estimates suggest that extinction threatens up to a million species of plants and animals, in large part because of human activities such as deforestation, hunting, and overfishing. Other serious threats include the spread of invasive species and diseases from human trade, as well as pollution and human-caused climate change. (Explore National Geographic magazine's special issue on extinction.)

Today, extinctions are occurring hundreds of times faster than they would naturally. If all species currently designated as critically endangered, endangered, or vulnerable go extinct in the next century, and if that rate of extinction continues without slowing down, we could approach the level of a mass extinction in as soon as 240 to 540 years.

Climate change presents a long-term threat. Humans’ burning of fossil fuels has let us chemically imitate large igneous provinces, through the injection of billions of tons of carbon dioxide and other gases into Earth’s atmosphere each year. By total volume, these past volcanoes emitted far more than humans do today; the Siberian Traps released more than 1,400 times the CO₂ than humans did in 2018 from burning fossil fuels for energy. However, humans are emitting greenhouse gases as fast as—or even faster than—the Siberian Traps, and Earth’s climate is rapidly changing as a result.

As mass extinctions show us, sudden climate change can be profoundly disruptive. And while we haven’t yet crossed the 75-percent threshold of a mass extinction, that doesn’t mean things are fine. Well before hitting that grim marker, the damage would throw the ecosystems we call home into chaos, jeopardizing species around the world—including us.

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Would it not depend on how long it was after they had all disappeared before replaced by similar looking life on Yom 5 in Genesis.

Yes, but there would still be a gap with massive destruction on one side and time passing even in a quick recovery, takes time for trees to grow, hives to be repopulated, bacteria to spread through dirt to restart decomposition, etc….species to spread out and populations to build back up.  And where did all the animal life come from, especially the more complicated versions where millions can’t just be kept in a jar and dumped in millions of convenient spots or released from the godly version of a planet sized duster plane.

If there was humanoid life beforehand, at what time period of human development did the extinction take place?  Archeology would be finding evidence of any settlements or even nomadic groups dying out at the same time and then minimal populations redeveloping.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

What are mass extinctions, and what causes them?…

Board rules allows for Fair Use, not sure if it’s okay to post a whole webpage.

None of these show the destruction of all life while they do show neither destruction nor regrowth happens overnight, even in the case of a volcano erupting.

If death happened quickly, there would be massive amounts of remains added to the geological record because we are talking about even insect and bacteria.  That is a lot of decomposition. 
 

And whatever killed off all life would have to be removed in order for life to flourish again and that would also take time, leaving a rock record.

Something miraculous might have occurred along the lines of God dissolving all earth life forms and then using those elements to reconstruct identical in form life forms, so nothing actually changed except for the ‘personalities’ so to speak, but got to ask why if he did that.  How could even insects and bacteria be so corrupted as needing to be erased from existence, but it was still okay to use their elements to reconstruct new life?

Edited January 11, 2023 by Calm

[CV75]

8 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

This theory is based on the LDS belief that in the Creation of Earth was made out of pre-existing materials. From this my mother believes the Earth is both old and new, both a young earth created 6000 years ago, but recycled from a world billions of years old. So, dinosaur bones and other fossils are ancient alien bones. As a child, I always thought it was interesting. Though I've only sparingly heard regular evolutionists and creation scientists yammer about geology so much before I lose interest. So, I'd suspect there could be flaws in this idea. I don't know what the current state of Creation Science/Intelligent Design theory is in the LDS sphere, and how unique doctrines of the church, like Creato ex Materia, can influence the arguments.

Is Mama right or is Mama wrong?

Edit: Found Fairwiki entry that repeats it, only to say paleontology has issues with it.

 

When Mama says she believes, does she mean a) she considers it to be a valuable working model subject to adjustment; b) she knows it is indisputable gospel truth; or c) an expression of not needing to know all the things God knows and as good an explanation as any?

[MiserereNobis]

Mama tried to raise me better, but her pleading I denied…

[Teancum]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

There are a couple of issues with it.  The previous world would have had to be transported in massive pieces in order to explain the way the bodies are laid out in the sedimentary layers, keeping relatively intact skeletons in relatively consistent layers (older types of skeletons laid down in older rock below younger species in newer rock…Triassic dinosaurs are not mixed in with Cretaceous dinosaurs and no dinosaurs at all below a certain depth). So it couldn’t have just been broken pieces mashed together with some parts containing old bones.  They would be much more haphazard, random formations.

Another issue is just the combining of such masses would generate quite a bit of heat, which would show up in the rock record even if it somehow did not manage to melt all the rock together in the combining process.

The whole process would have to be miraculous in our view anyway, because moving enough mass for a whole planet, breaking it apart and then ‘congealing’ it together would normally result in a completely molten mass to begin with.  So it could be explained away by God wanting the dinosaurs to appear as if they had arisen and perished over time on this planet, but one has to ask why he would do that.

There are some other issues I can’t remember now, I believe.

Add to that science has a pretty good idea on how the solar system and planets were created. So the idea that our earth is a jigsaw puzzle of large chunks of other planets is bogus and nonsensical.

Edited January 11, 2023 by Teancum

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

This theory is based on the LDS belief that in the Creation of Earth was made out of pre-existing materials. From this my mother believes the Earth is both old and new, both a young earth created 6000 years ago, but recycled from a world billions of years old. So, dinosaur bones and other fossils are ancient alien bones. As a child, I always thought it was interesting. Though I've only sparingly heard regular evolutionists and creation scientists yammer about geology so much before I lose interest. So, I'd suspect there could be flaws in this idea. I don't know what the current state of Creation Science/Intelligent Design theory is in the LDS sphere, and how unique doctrines of the church, like Creato ex Materia, can influence the arguments.

Is Mama right or is Mama wrong?

Edit: Found Fairwiki entry that repeats it, only to say paleontology has issues with it.

 

God made the earth and all its critters.

How he did it is his business.

He had to make every creature adapted to its environment, or they would cease to survive.

That's just a fact of life; extinctions happen all the time, new species appear all the time

Hard to imagine we are still talking about this.

The bible is not a science text.

Edited January 11, 2023 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

It reminds me of a science fiction story where

....this thread is heading.