Minerva Teichert's Grandson's Lawsuit Against the Church - Part II

[smac97]

Here is Part I, from August 2021: Minerva Teichert's Grandson's Lawsuit Against the Church

An update:

Quote

A lawsuit filed against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over a series of paintings has been scheduled for trial.

The family of renowned painter Minerva Teichert is suing the church, accusing them of taking paintings that don’t belong to them.

Teichert's paintings were in a Wyoming chapel and the family says an agreement meant they were supposed to stay there; but instead, the church moved them.

The church insists the paintings were given to them by Teichert herself before she died in 1976.

A federal judge in Cheyenne has set a jury trial starting in September 2023 to settle the dispute.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JLHPROF]

Well the Church doesn't exactly have a good track record with its care of these things.

The Manti Temple renovation for example that led to an uproar and a compromise of a new temple in Ephraim.  An uproar that sadly came too late to save the Salt Lake Temple art.

Edited September 27, 2022 by JLHPROF

[bluebell]

Is the FM group in charge of art in buildings?  I don’t have much faith in FM groups in general. 

[JustAnAustralian]

fox13 is a bit late with that news, the order was made in July https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wyd.58574/gov.uscourts.wyd.58574.33.0.pdf

[mtomm]

16 hours ago, bluebell said:

Is the FM group in charge of art in buildings?  I don’t have much faith in FM groups in general. 

Yes, but with something like those type of paintings it would have been handled way above the FM Group. 
 

[LoudmouthMormon]

2 minutes ago, mtomm said:

Yes, but with something like those type of paintings it would have been handled way above the FM Group. 

Heh.   On behalf of the FM group, may I convey my deepest disappointment that anyone could conceive of a power above them.  From their perspective, the only time something like this happens, is when some uncorrelated random yahoo takes it into his head to make promises he oughtn't.  Shame on whatever Stake President or General Authority screwed things up with his unauthorized agreement, that is now getting the church sued. 

[Maestrophil]

Are the SLC temple murals destroyed?  

[mtomm]

10 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Heh.   On behalf of the FM group, may I convey my deepest disappointment that anyone could conceive of a power above them.  From their perspective, the only time something like this happens, is when some uncorrelated random yahoo takes it into his head to make promises he oughtn't.  Shame on whatever Stake President or General Authority screwed things up with his unauthorized agreement, that is now getting the church sued. 

As an FM Group employee I confirm you have the thinking just about right. 
But I will say the quality of FM Groups varies greatly across the church. 
FM Groups have only been in existence since the early '90s.  Depending on the timeline of the events it is very likely an FM Group was not involved at all. 

[mtomm]

5 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

Are the SLC temple murals destroyed?  

I know that artwork from other temples is destroyed when they removed and changed out. I find that cray cray. 

[bluebell]

27 minutes ago, mtomm said:

Yes, but with something like those type of paintings it would have been handled way above the FM Group. 
 

I wondered because I know the FM group is in charge of getting pictures changed or added in our building, but it makes sense for this level of artwork to be handled differently. 

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, mtomm said:

I know that artwork from other temples is destroyed when they removed and changed out. I find that cray cray. 

Why don’t they donate the prints?  Or at the very least sell them for cheap??

[mtomm]

21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why don’t they donate the prints?  Or at the very least sell them for cheap??

I have no idea.  I know that in one temple the FM Group did manage to get a few of the paintings to use in some chapels but it was done on the down low. And I believe it was only prints that you would normally find in a meetinghouse anyway. 

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, mtomm said:

I have no idea.  I know that in one temple the FM Group did manage to get a few of the paintings to use in some chapels but it was done on the down low. And I believe it was only prints that you would normally find in a meetinghouse anyway. 

I guess I can see how they wouldn't want chapels fighting over prints that had been used in a temple.  Some members are just weird enough to believe that prints used in a temple were somehow more special than ones that weren't. 

But I don't understand destroying the prints rather than just donating them to the DI or something.  It seems like such a waste, it would be helpful to understand their reasoning behind it.

Edited September 27, 2022 by bluebell

[smac97]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I guess I can see how they wouldn't want chapels fighting over prints that had been used in a temple.  Some members are just weird enough to believe that prints used in a temple were somehow more special than ones that weren't. 

But I don't understand destroying the prints rather than just donating them to the DI or something.  It seems like such a waste, it would be helpful to understand their reasoning behind it.

It would avoid the appearance of favoritism?

Donating them to DI could create unhealthy incentives?

Concern about members of this unit over here feeling slighted/offended because that unit over there got a "temple" print?

Just spitballing here.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Are the SLC temple murals destroyed?  

Yes.

They promised the murals would remain then changed that.

Fortunately people did protest doing the same to Manti.

And the Church changed direction instead announcing the Ephraim Temple.

But too late for Salt Lake.  Like the Catholic Church choosing to spackle over the Sistine Chapel ceiling.  The response in when this happened to Logan was the same as Salt Lake will be:

"Linda Jones Gibbs clarified, “I was there with him – the whole Historical Department was sent up to Logan – it was the first thing I did after I was hired as Art Registrar. It was heartbreaking – seeing the citizens of Logan inside the temple standing around weeping.” Linda went on to say about this, “There is sadly no one with sufficient power to put a stop to this travesty. No Florence Jacobsen who convinced the brethren not to tear down the Beehive House and put up a parking lot in its place. She oversaw the remodeling of the Manti Temple to bring it back to its original furnishings – even having rugs hand loomed in England – and got rid of the French Provincial furniture. She is surely churning in her grave.”

Edited September 27, 2022 by JLHPROF

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, mtomm said:

I know that artwork from other temples is destroyed when they removed and changed out. I find that cray cray. 

Sounds about right from what a friend that works for the church has told my husband and I.

[JustAnAustralian]

Quote

STIPULATED MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS

______________________________________________________________________________

The parties, through their respective counsel, hereby stipulate as follows: To stay the proceedings in this case for a period of 90 days from the date of this filing in order to allow the parties to continue to focus their efforts on meaningful settlement discussions. 

DATED this 27th day of September, 2022

 

[Maestrophil]

20 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Yes.

They promised the murals would remain then changed that.

Fortunately people did protest doing the same to Manti.

And the Church changed direction instead announcing the Ephraim Temple.

But too late for Salt Lake.  Like the Catholic Church choosing to spackle over the Sistine Chapel ceiling.  The response in when this happened to Logan was the same as Salt Lake will be:

"Linda Jones Gibbs clarified, “I was there with him – the whole Historical Department was sent up to Logan – it was the first thing I did after I was hired as Art Registrar. It was heartbreaking – seeing the citizens of Logan inside the temple standing around weeping.” Linda went on to say about this, “There is sadly no one with sufficient power to put a stop to this travesty. No Florence Jacobsen who convinced the brethren not to tear down the Beehive House and put up a parking lot in its place. She oversaw the remodeling of the Manti Temple to bring it back to its original furnishings – even having rugs hand loomed in England – and got rid of the French Provincial furniture. She is surely churning in her grave.”

Heartbreaking - that those historic murals will never be seen again.

 

 

[Buckeye]

On 9/26/2022 at 6:27 PM, bluebell said:

Is the FM group in charge of art in buildings?  I don’t have much faith in FM groups in general. 

I work with the FM group a lot in my calling. Also worked with them when I lived in Ohio. 
 

In my experience, FM is very underfunded, but the employees try their hardest to support our buildings. Most frustrations result from policies that FM doesn’t create but must enforce.