Another Instance of Compelled Speech (Targeting Religious People) (Sorta)

[YJacket]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

The T part of LGBT has always been an uncomfortable part of the alliance. They get it worse than the B part and no one really likes the Bs either.  L and G don’t really get along that well either.

The TERF movement has already been taken over by the far-Right. There is no need for you to advocate for them in a weird attempt to fracture the LGBT community.

I'm pointing out that your ideology is flawed and how it is flawed and destroying your ideology bc of it's inherent contradictions.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, YJacket said:

More personal attacks.

So much for the love everyone, respect everyone, include everyone.

2nd commandments doesn't apply to those who think differently.

 

Which shows what it always was, a rouse just to bludgeon people with so the ideology gets in and rooted. 

So much for the tolerant left who will not respect your mindless bigotry.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, YJacket said:

More personal attacks.

So much for the love everyone, respect everyone, include everyone.

2nd commandments doesn't apply to those who think differently.

 

Which shows what it always was, a rouse just to bludgeon people with so the ideology gets in and rooted. 

You know nothing about me, and yet you make all these assumptions. I don't respect reactionary social or political ideology. That has nothing to do with loving the individual.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, YJacket said:

I'm pointing out that your ideology is flawed and how it is flawed and destroying your ideology bc of it's inherent contradictions.

You're really not. 

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, YJacket said:

I'm pointing out that your ideology is flawed and how it is flawed and destroying your ideology bc of it's inherent contradictions.

You are melting down like a lunatic.

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I think people don't like me just because they know me, not because I'm B.

I like you but I am also a B so I might be biased.

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like you but I am also a B so I might be biased.

I'm jealous G got claimed before Guys could get it.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Chum

[Chum]

19 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

No, but then, there must be a reason why people talk about whether they inhale or not when they use Marijuana ... AmIRight?  

I take a capsule. Smoking was so 1980s.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Chum

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Chum said:

Anyhoo, I think a more productive vibe is that cannabis is powerfully useful. That tone might ease reasonable concerns.

Anything powerful tends to have strong reactions for good or bad, so not a bad description. I haven’t been keeping up on research, so perhaps there are more studies showing positive effects by now, but my current stance is at this point, I think it’s overhyped in some areas and I am concerned that even the trained pharmacists at the dispensary I got it at were denying some of the negative effects I experienced myself and found research supporting.  But this is understandable to me as a counterbalance to the whole devil’s weed and excessive negative claims.  I just hope a more realistic view of it gets out there.  And that includes a greater awareness of cannabis’ interaction with other drugs.

https://news.wsu.edu/press-release/2021/12/13/cannabis-use-could-cause-harmful-drug-interactions/

One of the reasons I stopped using it was the few times I took a bit too much (hard to be precise when you can’t see drops falling into your mouth and it’s gummies rather than tablets) and went into the thought looping state or whatever it is called, I was scared of relaxing and just falling asleep because it seemed if I didn’t consciously think of breathing, I might actually stop.  Neither of my doctors okaying my use of it (sleep and psych) expressed any concern about mixing it with other drugs, but my new doctor who specializes in pain meds said it could have combined with my other drugs to suppress my respiratory response enough to be dangerous.  He looked frustrated cannabis and another drug had been prescribed for me as both, according to studies I was given in a class and now can’t remember where I put them, increased my risk of overdosing to probably over 500 times and possibly more.  It was a good thing I never got sick during this time where my body decides it isn’t going to absorb my drugs like it typically does and suddenly I have too much in my system.  
 

There are, if I am reading the research right, higher increases of opioid overdoses in states with medical cannabis, but while researchers are saying cannabis is not the saviour of the opioid crisis it was hoped to be after all, the increases are likely due to other factors.

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I like you but I am also a B so I might be biased.

You mentioned normalizing kink, and it made me wonder if people here think there is something inherently wrong about having kinks. Years ago, when I was elders quorum president in Utah, there was a couple in our ward who had a leather pride flag on their car. I always figured no one in the ward knew what it was, but it made me smile. I never asked about it, but one day the husband mentioned that when they were BYU students and dating, his soon-to-be fiancee tearfully confessed that she had BDSM interests and just wanted him to know he could back out of the relationship if that was a deal-breaker. He told her he was relieved because he was trying to summon the courage to tell her about his interest in BDSM. They were happily married (and still are), and it obviously wasn't any of my business what they did. 

[smac97]

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

What an annoying thread. "I'm tolerant of gays, but look at the terrible, horrible things they do! And now they're trying to force us all to support their perverted ways!"

Strawman.

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Gay pride isn't about creating a sexual free-for-all or grooming kids or compelling speech.

It's not supposed to be, but in some quarters, it is.  Hence the depravities on display in some pride parades, in drag shows geared toward children, etc.

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It's about being able to stand up and say I'm not going to hide who I am anymore. I'm not going to be ashamed. I'm not going to live in the shadows because society has marginalized and demonized people like me for centuries. It is precisely because of the stigma and shame that gay pride parades exist.

And yet none of these things are advanced by sexualizing/grooming children.

None of these are advanced by public displays of debauchery and perversion.

It is these things we are increasingly seeing at some "pride" parades, drag shows, etc. that I problematic.  You can't just wave them off and pretend these things aren't happening, and expect us to go along with that.  

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

If you don't get that, fine, but spare us your couch-swooning virtue signaling.

Feel free to disregard my posts.

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

As for normalizing kink, when you spend decades feeling guilt and shame over an insignificant sexual interest, it actually does help to know you're not alone, you're not some kind of evil deviant, and it really is OK. I get it that many here think it isn't OK, that people like me should be ashamed of our sexuality and kinks. Frankly, if done correctly, a pride parade should be giant middle finger to such folks. I'll raise mine, anyway. 

Message received.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Chum]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

One of the reasons I stopped using it was the few times I took a bit too much (hard to be precise when you can’t see drops falling into your mouth and it’s gummies rather than tablets) and went into the thought looping state or whatever it is called, I was scared of relaxing and just falling asleep because it seemed if I didn’t consciously think of breathing, I might actually stop.

I take indica at night and it is the opposite of recreational. It sort of makes me sleepy but the stronger effect is a combo of Come To Jesus and bad trip. I get extremely unpleasant imagery poking in at the edges while getting some bar-of-judgment level clarity about the mistakes of the day (always mistakes. never accomplishments. is prob same reasons why US schitzo voices are menacing while non-western voices are encouraging). I flee to sleep to escape it.

I put up with it because sleep is that important. And I'm learning to leverage some of the BoJ moments.

[Chum]

31 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

You mentioned normalizing kink, and it made me wonder if people here think there is something inherently wrong about having kinks.

I think wrong is wrong. My uneducated theory is that kink is a common coping tool for damage. I suspect that it's usefulness is from remanifesting bad behavior in a way (and toward an event/person) that is a better receptacle. If I'm correct, that would imply that addressing the related damage could help reduce a need for it. With that, I'm neutral about it.

[Chum]

Just now, Chum said:

I think wrong is wrong. My uneducated theory is that kink is a common coping tool for damage. I suspect that it's usefulness is from remanifesting bad behavior in a way (and toward an event/person) that is a better receptacle. If I'm correct, that would imply that addressing the related damage could help reduce a need for it. With that, I'm neutral about it.

Also I find pragmatism to be very satisfying.

[Tacenda]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Anything powerful tends to have strong reactions for good or bad, so not a bad description. I haven’t been keeping up on research, so perhaps there are more studies showing positive effects by now, but my current stance is at this point, I think it’s overhyped in some areas and I am concerned that even the trained pharmacists at the dispensary I got it at were denying some of the negative effects I experienced myself and found research supporting.  But this is understandable to me as a counterbalance to the whole devil’s weed and excessive negative claims.  I just hope a more realistic view of it gets out there.  And that includes a greater awareness of cannabis’ interaction with other drugs.

https://news.wsu.edu/press-release/2021/12/13/cannabis-use-could-cause-harmful-drug-interactions/

One of the reasons I stopped using it was the few times I took a bit too much (hard to be precise when you can’t see drops falling into your mouth and it’s gummies rather than tablets) and went into the thought looping state or whatever it is called, I was scared of relaxing and just falling asleep because it seemed if I didn’t consciously think of breathing, I might actually stop.  Neither of my doctors okaying my use of it (sleep and psych) expressed any concern about mixing it with other drugs, but my new doctor who specializes in pain meds said it could have combined with my other drugs to suppress my respiratory response enough to be dangerous.  He looked frustrated cannabis and another drug had been prescribed for me as both, according to studies I was given in a class and now can’t remember where I put them, increased my risk of overdosing to probably over 500 times and possibly more.  It was a good thing I never got sick during this time where my body decides it isn’t going to absorb my drugs like it typically does and suddenly I have too much in my system.  
 

There are, if I am reading the research right, higher increases of opioid overdoses in states with medical cannabis, but while researchers are saying cannabis is not the saviour of the opioid crisis it was hoped to be after all, the increases are likely due to other factors.

I agree with what you said about all the hype. As I've told you before, I'm on a private FB group called, "Cannabis Oil Success Stories". There are many uses but there are other natural ways as well which people in the group bring up as well. So I think we are on a learning curve in history right now as far as cannabis and it's medical uses. I'm glad you're okay, that sounds scary. I recently stopped using my cbd/thc oil in case I ever got drug tested for some jobs I was looking into. I went a week, and my body reacted somewhat with my inability to sleep well, and I actually went into a deep funk. But I'm not sure if it's just that I'm in a mild depression and I thought it was going off of the oil. Not sure. But went back on it, because I wonder if it really is helping with my hypothyroidism. But definitely don't think it's a cure all. 

[jkwilliams]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Strawman.

It's not supposed to be, but in some quarters, it is.  Hence the depravities on display in some pride parades, in drag shows geared toward children, etc.

And yet none of these things are advanced by sexualizing/grooming children.

None of these are advanced by public displays of debauchery and perversion.

It is these things we are increasingly seeing at some "pride" parades, drag shows, etc. that I problematic.  You can't just wave them off and pretend these things aren't happening, and expect us to go along with that.  

Feel free to disregard my posts.

Message received.

Thanks,

-Smac

Let me see if I have this straight: A pride event is supposed to be a celebration of a person's sexuality, an overt statement that we are not ashamed of our sexuality. Apparently, that's OK as long as it doesn't involve any expression of sexuality. Really? On August 6, my friends in the Bolivia Utah society are celebrating their Bolivian heritage as part of Bolivia's independence day. I guess we should make sure that the program isn't too Bolivian--right?--because they live in the USA, and their loyalty might come into question. Maybe we should have Oktoberfest in Midway without lederhosen. Or Mardi Gras without beads. The whole point is to not be ashamed of our sexuality, so obviously there's going to be some representation of sexuality. I get it that you don't like the "depravities" shown (I'm not even going to ask), but for people who have lived in the shadows and hidden who they are, that expression is important. 

That said, obviously it's not a good idea to have children at events that are inappropriate for them. No argument here. But there's a long leap in saying these events are designed to sexualize and groom children. I've known enough people who have planned and held pride events (even ones with depravities, as it were), and no one ever said anything, in public or private, about grooming kids. Twisting the purpose of such events to engender fear of LGBTQ people is pretty low. 

My middle finger (and that of pride events in general) is reserved for those who think we should be ashamed of who we are. I don't believe that applies to you.

[jkwilliams]

5 minutes ago, Chum said:

I think wrong is wrong. My uneducated theory is that kink is a common coping tool for damage. I suspect that it's usefulness is from remanifesting bad behavior in a way (and toward an event/person) that is a better receptacle. If I'm correct, that would imply that addressing the related damage could help reduce a need for it. With that, I'm neutral about it.

Without personalizing it too much, I have concluded that no one really knows where kinks come from and how they develop. Every professional I've ever consulted (and there were a lot of them, given my long history of guilt and self-loathing) has said the same thing: you can spend the rest of your life worrying about where it comes from and what it means, or you can accept that it just is and deal with it on your own terms. I stopped hating myself when I stopped trying to make it go away. 

[Chum]

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Without personalizing it too much, I have concluded that no one really knows where kinks come from and how they develop. Every professional I've ever consulted (and there were a lot of them, given my long history of guilt and self-loathing) has said the same thing: you can spend the rest of your life worrying about where it comes from and what it means, or you can accept that it just is and deal with it on your own terms. I stopped hating myself when I stopped trying to make it go away. 

I wouldn't bet my theories against that. However, I'm keeping my notions around to stretch/challenge/poke. Even disproving them would be a conclusion.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Chum said:

I wouldn't bet my theories against that. However, I'm keeping my notions around to stretch/challenge/poke. Even disproving them would be a conclusion.

I'm always open for an explanation that works, but I'm not going to worry about it. 

[Tacenda]

Just a thought, have you ever heard of those people out there that feel unloved or those people out there that do harm to others or those that bully or those that act in terrible ways as children or ? might be because of feeling like they're bad people etc. and then kind of throw in the towel and act bad because that's what people think of them already? 

I think for so long we've put gays in a box and told them they are bad for being gay, now we eased up and say they aren't bad for being gay, just when acting on it. 

I wonder if we just leave them be maybe one day they can be like the straights and do what their souls dictate, and find a mate and live with them hopefully all their lives and be in peace. Not have family or friends, neighbors or the community call them out or put labels on them. I think it's most likely that the gays now aren't having tons of partners anymore and feeling hopeless because now they can feel free to live their lives and know that they can settle down with one partner and no one will throw them in jail for it...in the USA anyway. 

I'd like to see a straight person being told they are only allowed to love romantically, another straight person, what chaos that would be. People like @YJacketmight want to put their selves in the shoes of someone that is gay, and ask themselves how'd they feel if they were told to love the same sex. Like the gays are told to love the opposite sex. 

I'd like to know if @YJacket knows personally someone that is gay and maybe it's time to get to know someone who is before all the judgement. 

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I'm always open for an explanation that works, but I'm not going to worry about it. 

sidebar: If were right, kink would evidence strong natural consideration for others.

Of course my whole theory could also be me conflating unrelated things that appear similar.

[The Nehor]

32 minutes ago, Chum said:

I think wrong is wrong. My uneducated theory is that kink is a common coping tool for damage. I suspect that it's usefulness is from remanifesting bad behavior in a way (and toward an event/person) that is a better receptacle. If I'm correct, that would imply that addressing the related damage could help reduce a need for it. With that, I'm neutral about it.

Often, but often kink is generalized into very specific kinds of kink. Almost everyone is kinky to a degree but most kinks are innocuous. Then there are the depraved weirdos like myself. I have theories as to why but few of them have to do with damage. If the triggering incidents in childhood I suspect are responsible for them they were innocuous. It was, for lack of a better word, random.

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Often, but often kink is generalized into very specific kinds of kink. Almost everyone is kinky to a degree but most kinks are innocuous. Then there are the depraved weirdos like myself. I have theories as to why but few of them have to do with damage. If the triggering incidents in childhood I suspect are responsible for them they were innocuous. It was, for lack of a better word, random.

Same here. If there were definite triggering incidents in my life (and I'm not sure there were), they were innocuous. For whatever reason, some things get wired into the brain as erotic. It just happens.

[YJacket]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So much for the tolerant left who will not respect your mindless bigotry.

You have worn out the use words like bigot, they only have effect in your own circles.

Get out some and you'll see it's not as powerful as you think. 

[YJacket]

48 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Just a thought, have you ever heard of those people out there that feel unloved or those people out there that do harm to others or those that bully or those that act in terrible ways as children or ? might be because of feeling like they're bad people etc. and then kind of throw in the towel and act bad because that's what people think of them already? 

I think for so long we've put gays in a box and told them they are bad for being gay, now we eased up and say they aren't bad for being gay, just when acting on it. 

I wonder if we just leave them be maybe one day they can be like the straights and do what their souls dictate, and find a mate and live with them hopefully all their lives and be in peace. Not have family or friends, neighbors or the community call them out or put labels on them. I think it's most likely that the gays now aren't having tons of partners anymore and feeling hopeless because now they can feel free to live their lives and know that they can settle down with one partner and no one will throw them in jail for it...in the USA anyway. 

I'd like to see a straight person being told they are only allowed to love romantically, another straight person, what chaos that would be. People like @YJacketmight want to put their selves in the shoes of someone that is gay, and ask themselves how'd they feel if they were told to love the same sex. Like the gays are told to love the opposite sex. 

I'd like to know if @YJacket knows personally someone that is gay and maybe it's time to get to know someone who is before all the judgement. 

I have my own ungodly passions that through Christ are no issue. I do not identify with the fallen parts of nature 

It is for that reason that I do have compassion for the LGBTQ, through Christ it can be overcome, diminished to such a point that it is not an issue.

It's a shame your God is so weak.