Mormons and Psychadelics--what the what?

[webbles]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:23 PM, The Nehor said:

In other drug news the state of Minnesota sort of accidentally legalized weed edibles while regulating other THC products. It is not clear if the GOP was tricked or if the Dems just didn’t realize the full effect of the law themselves.

https://www.startribune.com/edibles-and-beverages-laced-with-cannabis-ingredient-thc-to-become-legal-friday-in-minnesota/600186638/

LOL

Here's the actual law - https://mjbizdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/HF3595.2.pdf (I wish news articles would always link back to the actual law or court decision)

That law is pretty clear that it is regulating edibles that contain THC derived from hemp (not marijuana).  So, either the GOP senators didn't read it or they knew.

Tracking down that low, I learned about THC delta-8 which is technically legal in the US since 2018.  Some states (both blue and red) have passed laws to ban it (https://cbdoracle.com/news/policy/delta-8-thc-legal/).  Minnesota went the regulation route instead of the banning route.

So marijuana (including derived THC) is still banned but hemp (including derived THC) is regulated.  So if you plan to sell/buy edibles in Minnesota, make sure it comes from hemp.

[Lemuel]

On 7/3/2022 at 8:00 PM, Calm said:

I congratulate you. Was it on your own or with medical oversight? Don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.  Just curious about what is being done in the field.

It is always good to hear someone has beaten the beast or at least muzzled it some.  I was really hoping Ketamine would do it for me and we are planning on trying again with my daughter once her migraines are taken care of.  I am impressed with the work they are doing with alternative drugs.  I am grinding my teeth my drug I can’t survive without prevents using it….at least wisely.

The brain is a fantastical object.  

I mentioned it to my psychiatrist and he didn't have a problem with it (not that he can legally prescribe it).

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, webbles said:

Here's the actual law - https://mjbizdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/HF3595.2.pdf (I wish news articles would always link back to the actual law or court decision)

That law is pretty clear that it is regulating edibles that contain THC derived from hemp (not marijuana).  So, either the GOP senators didn't read it or they knew.

Tracking down that low, I learned about THC delta-8 which is technically legal in the US since 2018.  Some states (both blue and red) have passed laws to ban it (https://cbdoracle.com/news/policy/delta-8-thc-legal/).  Minnesota went the regulation route instead of the banning route.

So marijuana (including derived THC) is still banned but hemp (including derived THC) is regulated.  So if you plan to sell/buy edibles in Minnesota, make sure it comes from hemp.

I am guessing they didn’t read it. They acted like they had been tricked when they found out.

[DT_]

On 6/28/2022 at 3:33 PM, The Nehor said:

Here I was hoping permission had finally been given. Oh well, maybe next week.

The Church doesn't have an official position on psychedelics.  

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, DT_ said:

The Church doesn't have an official position on psychedelics.  

Link please.

[DT_]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Link please.

It's not official doctrine. No official statement by the First Presidency mentions psychedelics. "Over time, Church leaders have provided additional instruction on those things that are encouraged or forbidden by the Word of Wisdom, and have taught that substances that are destructive, habit-forming or addictive should be avoided. " 

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/statement-word-of-wisdom-august-2019

 

 

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, DT_ said:

It's not official doctrine. No official statement by the First Presidency mentions psychedelics. "Over time, Church leaders have provided additional instruction on those things that are encouraged or forbidden by the Word of Wisdom, and have taught that substances that are destructive, habit-forming or addictive should be avoided. " 

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/statement-word-of-wisdom-august-2019

 

 

If one doesn't think psychedelics interfere with the spirit, reason it out.

The Spirit is got to be IN YOU, not on a drug caused "TV" where you just lay back and watch the colors go by.

Those are not visions, they are YouTube in a pill.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If one doesn't think psychedelics interfere with the spirit, reason it out.

The Spirit is got to be IN YOU, not on a drug caused "TV" where you just lay back and watch the colors go by.

Those are not visions, they are YouTube in a pill.

Interesting article that connects stories in the Bible with using different psychedelics.

https://www.drjamescooke.com/read/bible

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If one doesn't think psychedelics interfere with the spirit, reason it out.

The Spirit is got to be IN YOU, not on a drug caused "TV" where you just lay back and watch the colors go by.

Those are not visions, they are YouTube in a pill.

YouTube doesn’t pull images out of my brain. It shoots them at my eyes.

[DT_]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

If one doesn't think psychedelics interfere with the spirit, reason it out.

The Spirit is got to be IN YOU, not on a drug caused "TV" where you just lay back and watch the colors go by.

Those are not visions, they are YouTube in a pill.

A DMT trip seems to be more powerful than reading the scriptures. "More than half of those who identified as atheist before the experience no longer identified as atheist afterwards. The experiences were rated as among the most meaningful, spiritual, and psychologically insightful lifetime experiences, with persisting positive changes in life satisfaction, purpose, and meaning attributed to the experiences. "
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345112/

 

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

YouTube doesn’t pull images out of my brain. It shoots them at my eyes.

Do you think a DMT trip is just a hallucination? "Why people encounter what appear to be non-human entities while on DMT but not on other drugs is currently unknown." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/unique-everybody-else/201210/dmt-aliens-and-reality-part-1

Do you believe in NDEs?

 

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, DT_ said:

A DMT trip seems to be more powerful than reading the scriptures.

For their sample, of course.

If you have never had a spiritual experience, and you're reading Leviticus, YouTube will win every time.

[DT_]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

For their sample, of course.

If you have never had a spiritual experience, and you're reading Leviticus, YouTube will win every time.

How do you know the trip is not a spiritual experience? Why are you so skeptical? 

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, DT_ said:

How do you know the trip is not a spiritual experience? Why are you so skeptical? 

Because I have had many of both.

Not skeptical at all. Do you know the difference between day and night?

Are you skeptical about the difference?

Former communist hippie, convert member of church 44 years.

I joined the church because of the clear clear difference.

[DT_]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Because I have had many of both.

Not skeptical at all. Do you know the difference between day and night?

Are you skeptical about the difference?

Former communist hippie, convert member of church 44 years.

I joined the church because of the clear clear difference.

Why do people encounter non-human entities while on DMT, but on other drugs? You don't think the entities are real?

Interesting. What makes the Church so special?

 

[DT_]

*but not on other drugs

[mfbukowski]

15 minutes ago, DT_ said:

Why do people encounter non-human entities while on DMT, but on other drugs? You don't think the entities are real?

Obviously the brain reacts differently to different drugs.

Real?

Semantics!

Are dreams "real"? Again, semantic confusion.

Google " category mistake "

[mfbukowski]

25 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Obviously the brain reacts differently to different drugs.

Real?

Semantics!

Are dreams "real"? Again, semantic confusion.

Google " category mistake "

The reaction is real. The brain is real.

Are ideas real? Are animals real?

Are dreams real? Is love real?  How about colors? 

The hallucinations are as real as red and blue 

https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality?language=en

Edited August 3, 2022 by mfbukowski

[DT_]

47 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Obviously the brain reacts differently to different drugs.

Does the brain react differently when we read the Scriptures? or during NDEs?

32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

The reaction is real. The brain is real.

Are ideas real? Are animals real?

Are dreams real? Is love real?  How about colors?

I'm not sure what you mean. Is a DMT trip just a dream? 

[mfbukowski]

37 minutes ago, DT_ said:

Does the brain react differently when we read the Scriptures? or during NDEs?

I'm not sure what you mean. Is a DMT trip just a dream? 

Sorry your questions are vague and  can be answered too many ways.

We are not communicating 

The brain reacts differently to everything 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, DT_ said:

What makes the Church so special?

It is the true channel to God.  We see now through a broken mirror, but if we follow it consistently we can see God face to face.

[pogi]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:21 AM, mfbukowski said:

If one doesn't think psychedelics interfere with the spirit, reason it out.

The Spirit is got to be IN YOU, not on a drug caused "TV" where you just lay back and watch the colors go by.

Those are not visions, they are YouTube in a pill.

I have never done psychedelics, so can't speak from personal experience, but I have researched them a lot.  I became interested after doing research in nursing school on efficacy of psilocybin in depression/anxiety/PTSD.  I think we are just barely taping into the promising medical usefulness of these drugs.  But also, I was deeply into meditative practice at the time and couldn't help but notice significant overlaps in phenomenological experiences reported.  I have done some further research and found that there truly is overlap, even on the neurophysiological level, in meditation and some psychedelics. 

While I can't speak to psychedelics, I can speak to meditation and how it can indeed lead to deep altered states of consciousness which prime me for being much receptive towards spiritual experiences - enhancing my experience of the spirit to levels not experienced in any other way.   We know that meditation actually alters brain chemistry and can enhance spirituality based on subjective testimony.  We know that psychedelics can do the same things. 

So, if meditation enhances our perceptive ability/experience of spirit through altered conscious states and brain chemistry/neurophysiology, doesn't it make sense that there might be more than one way to get to that enhanced state of conscious receptivity through altered brain states and neurophysiological changes?   I know that you have experienced both the spirit and psychedelics, but I am guessing that you stopped using psychedelics after you found the church and spiritual experience.  How can you know that psychedelics can't enhance your spiritual experience if you have not tried them together?   Studies prove that meditation enhances these experiences of psychedelics in positive ways - and vise versa.

What is intriguing to me is how psychedelics commonly turn people (even atheists) to God.  It can have long-term positive psycho/emotional/spiritual effect.  It is the only known "cure" for depression and PTSD, which we know can interfere with the spirit.  So, based on the effects it can have on depression/anxiety/PTSD alone, I see it as a positive and doorway to enhanced personal spirituality.  I don't see how that can be a bad thing. 

I agree that the Spirit has to be "in you", but what if certain mental/conscious states can increase our perceptiveness/receptiveness of the spirit.  Often times we have all sorts of emotional and psychological barriers to opening up to the spirit.  What if meditation and other induced altered mental states simply break down those barriers for us?  Something to think about anyway.     

Edited August 3, 2022 by pogi

[DT_]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I agree that the Spirit has to be "in you", but what if certain mental/conscious states can increase our perceptiveness/receptiveness of the spirit.  Often times we have all sorts of emotional and psychological barriers to opening up to the spirit.  What if meditation and other induced altered mental states simply break down those barriers for us?  Something to think about anyway.     

Absolutely! DMT is more successful in converting atheists than prayer.

1 hour ago, pogi said:

So, if meditation enhances our perceptive ability/experience of spirit through altered conscious states and brain chemistry/neurophysiology, doesn't it make sense that there might be more than one way to get to that enhanced state of conscious receptivity through altered brain states and neurophysiological changes?   I know that you have experienced both the spirit and psychedelics, but I am guessing that you stopped using psychedelics after you found the church and spiritual experience.  How can you know that psychedelics can't enhance your spiritual experience if you have not tried them together?   Studies prove that meditation enhances these experiences of psychedelics in positive ways - and vise versa.

Makes perfect sense. Do you believe the non-human entities are real? People only encounter the entities while on DMT, but not on other drugs.

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

It is the true channel to God.  We see now through a broken mirror, but if we follow it consistently we can see God face to face.

I'm a bit confused. Do you believe DMT is a channel to God?

[DT_]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

What is intriguing to me is how psychedelics commonly turn people (even atheists) to God.  It can have long-term positive psycho/emotional/spiritual effect. 

Why do you think the scriptures and prayer are not as successful in converting atheists?

[Tacenda]

Netflix has a documentary that looks enlightening, have yet to watch it, called, "How to Change Your Mind".

https://www.imdb.com/video/vi2161689113/?ref_=tt_vi_i_2

[pogi]

22 minutes ago, DT_ said:

Why do you think the scriptures and prayer are not as successful in converting atheists?

Preconceived notions and personal bias, false beliefs, doubt, fear, the "rational" mind, limiting self-beliefs, limiting beliefs about what God is, who he is, unwillingness to make the sacrifice necessary to practice the discipline... These are all limiting factors to experiencing God.  In essence, I think the ego gets in the way.    Inhibiting the experience of the ego I believe will help us to more freely experience God.  I think that prayer/meditation probably work just as effectively at converting people to God, they just require more discipline and time to reach those altered states of consciousness.   Because of the work and discipline/sacrifice required, I believe they are probably more enduring and sustaining practices that keep us connected with God.  If these other substances truly work to break down mental barriers, then these substances may be a doorway for some, but it is only a door way.  One has to walk in that doorway and maintain a relationship with God for it to be enduring - that requires maintenance and discipline through scripture study/prayer, etc.