In-Person Evangelization

[Saint Bonaventure]

I have heard that the LDS temple in Phoenix, AZ hosts an outdoor theatrical production leading up to Easter. That has me thinking about methods of in-person evangelization, from preaching on a street corner to rolling into town with a bus and a big tent.

Catholics like to advertise visitations to shrines, and will sometimes set up at events or even on a sidewalk with simple messages on a sign like, "What questions do you have about the Catholic Church?" I've heard of priests being at these sidewalk setups, and with signs asking if people want blessings, a medal, or the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

It occurs to me that while I've seen LDS missionaries going door-to-door, and I've become aware of the plays (like in Phoenix), I don't really know what LDS will and won't do in the name of in-person evangelization. I haven't seen LDS folks doing the bullhorn thing, and I don't think you all have reading rooms like the Christian Scientists do.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Saint Bonaventure

[Pyreaux]

They usually get most of their contacts by a Referral (membership referring contacts, or being contacted by text message, phone, or email, etc). Missionary Tracting (street contacting, door knocking, etc) is not very effective in the United States, but they still do it, but only to kill time when plans fall through. Street preaching might be effective in other parts of the world... maybe Holland?

They of course they can be given a post at a special event, pageants, visiting centers and Temple tours. While they may have pamphlets or answer questions, what they really want to set up an in-person visit at another time, at their convenience. They can't really give all the discussions they want to have right then and there.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Pyreaux

[ttribe]

2 hours ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

I have heard that the LDS temple in Phoenix, AZ hosts an outdoor theatrical production leading up to Easter. That has me thinking about methods of in-person evangelization, from preaching on a street corner to rolling into town with a bus and a big tent.

Catholics like to advertise visitations to shrines, and will sometimes set up at events or even on a sidewalk with simple messages on a sign like, "What questions do you have about the Catholic Church?" I've heard of priests being at these sidewalk setups, and with signs asking if people want blessings, a medal, or the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

It occurs to me that while I've seen LDS missionaries going door-to-door, and I've become aware of the plays (like in Phoenix), I don't really know what LDS will and won't do in the name of in-person evangelization. I haven't seen LDS folks doing the bullhorn thing, and I don't think you all have reading rooms like the Christian Scientists do.

The Easter Pageant is actually held in Mesa, AZ, but that it probably beside the point you are trying to make.

[Saint Bonaventure]

1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

They usually get most of their contacts by a Referral (membership referring contacts, or being contacted by text message, phone, or email, etc). Missionary Tracting (street contacting, door knocking, etc) is not very effective in the United States, but they still do it, but only to kill time when plans fall through. Street preaching might be effective in other parts of the world... maybe Holland?

They of course they can be given a post at a special event, pageants, visiting centers and Temple tours. While they may have pamphlets or answer questions, what they really want to set up an in-person visit at another time, at their convenience. They can't really give all the discussions they want to have right then and there.

I forgot about visitor centers. 

I've also wondered if LDS think of the Joseph Smith and other sites in New York, Missouri, and Illinois as "shrines," or as destinations for pilgrimages.

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

It occurs to me that while I've seen LDS missionaries going door-to-door, and I've become aware of the plays (like in Phoenix), I don't really know what LDS will and won't do in the name of in-person evangelization. I haven't seen LDS folks doing the bullhorn thing, and I don't think you all have reading rooms like the Christian Scientists do.

I've attended the Mesa Arizona Temple Easter Pageant for years now, including this year after it reopened after the renovation of the temple and temple grounds.  I created a thread about that in April in the News section (here).

As you might guess, the missionaries are on site there and are available to ask questions and to assist people who may have an interest in the church.  They set up appointments with interested individuals and teach them at another time and place.

But there are also a wide range of "evangelization" attempts by detractors at the Easter Pageant.  They gather on street corners and near the entrances to the temple grounds, trying to counteract the message of the church.  People come from all over the country to this event, just to hand out their tracts and to try to give pageant attendees their point of view on "Mormonism".  I didn't see anyone using a bullhorn this year, but I have seen that in prior years.  They usually carry signs and banners.

[MiserereNobis]

26 minutes ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

I forgot about visitor centers. 

I've also wondered if LDS think of the Joseph Smith and other sites in New York, Missouri, and Illinois as "shrines," or as destinations for pilgrimages.

Great question. I'm curious to hear the answer.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

The Easter Pageant is actually held in Mesa, AZ, but that it probably beside the point you are trying to make.

So that one did not get the ax like the Hill Cumorah Pageant and others?

[MustardSeed]

45 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Great question. I'm curious to hear the answer.

IMO yes.  We don't refer to them with that language though.  "We visited the site" is more commonly used in my experience. 

[InCognitus]

21 minutes ago, Teancum said:

So that one did not get the ax like the Hill Cumorah Pageant and others?

See:  Church Finalizes Pageant Decision

Quote

The pageants that will continue are as follows:

• The Nauvoo Pageant, with support from Church headquarters.
• The Mesa Pageant will be held under area leadership in 2021 after the renovation of the Mesa Arizona Temple.
• The British Pageant, under area leadership, to be held every four years. The next production will be in 2021.

The pageants to end include:

• The Hill Cumorah Pageant, to end in 2020 after its summer production.
• The Manti Pageant, to end following its 2019 performances.
• The Castle Valley Pageant.
• The Clarkston Pageant.

 

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

I've also wondered if LDS think of the Joseph Smith and other sites in New York, Missouri, and Illinois as "shrines," or as destinations for pilgrimages.

We just call them "Church Historic Sites".  I don't know of anyone that would consider them "shrines" or a "pilgrimage" kind of thing.

 

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

So that one did not get the ax like the Hill Cumorah Pageant and others?

Hill Cumorah Pageant was cancelled due to Covid, it might come back.

 

2 hours ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

I forgot about visitor centers. 

I've also wondered if LDS think of the Joseph Smith and other sites in New York, Missouri, and Illinois as "shrines," or as destinations for pilgrimages.

Yes, there are several places with several significant Historical sites that people would travel to see.  I've pilgrimaged to two.

Palmyra, New York has (HAD) the Hill Cumorah Pageant, but also Unique Museums, a Statue at the Hill Cumorah, Joseph Smith's Family Farm, Book of Mormon Publication Site with the Printing press on display, and the Sacred Grove. Members organize groups by youth, single adults, or wards to go by bus to these places every so often. 

There is the Nauvoo Pageant and Historic Nauvoo shops, not the most interesting sites, but there are well informed missionaries stationed there to tell you all about the places, and they give you free souvenirs at various locations (Webb Brothers' Blacksmith Shop - free "prairie diamond ring"; Scovil Bakery - free gingerbread cookie; Brickyard - free souvenir Old Nauvoo brick. Family Living Center - Make your own Jump-rope; Dip your own candles (seasonal); Sample homemade bread. Senior missionaries host funny musical shows. Community of Christ Historic Sites like the Smith Family Cemetery. Carthage Jail Visitor Center.

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Pyreaux

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

We just call them "Church Historic Sites".  I don't know of anyone that would consider them "shrines" or a "pilgrimage" kind of thing.

 

Yep agree exactly.  It's not a religious thing- it's seen as a historical thing, that's all.

[Pyreaux]

Mormons don't usually use the word "shrine", we think of a "shrine" as an ancient rural temple structure for worship. I think the basic Catholic idea for a shrine is an actively visited site dedicated in honor of a saint, or, an event, like in Jesus' life. In that sense it is very similar to these historical sites. The difference is Catholic may allow for devotions to that saint, and people sometimes come to that place for a specific cause (for healing or for prayers). That is a little unfamiliar to us, but if one visits the Sacred Grove, I think that might count as such a place. Everyone sort of breaks away to quickly pray alone.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Pyreaux

[Navidad]

5 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I've attended the Mesa Arizona Temple Easter Pageant for years now, including this year after it reopened after the renovation of the temple and temple grounds.  I created a thread about that in April in the News section (here).

As you might guess, the missionaries are on site there and are available to ask questions and to assist people who may have an interest in the church.  They set up appointments with interested individuals and teach them at another time and place.

But there are also a wide range of "evangelization" attempts by detractors at the Easter Pageant.  They gather on street corners and near the entrances to the temple grounds, trying to counteract the message of the church.  People come from all over the country to this event, just to hand out their tracts and to try to give pageant attendees their point of view on "Mormonism".  I didn't see anyone using a bullhorn this year, but I have seen that in prior years.  They usually carry signs and banners.

Let me get this straight if an LDS person tries to convert someone he or she is a "missionary." If a non-LDS person tries to convert someone he or she is a "detractor." Fascinating choice of words.

[InCognitus]

12 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Let me get this straight if an LDS person tries to convert someone he or she is a "missionary." If a non-LDS person tries to convert someone he or she is a "detractor." Fascinating choice of words.

Those are carefully chosen words.  The primary message of the "detractors" is to show how "Mormonism" is "wrong" and to steer people away (detract) from becoming interested in the church.  If I had a way to do it, I'd show you some of their tracts so you could see for yourself.

Edit:  This link should give an example of what I mean, from the 2004 Easter Pageant:  Anti-Mormon efforts at the 2004 Mesa Easter Pageant.   Note the guy with the bullhorn in the sixth photo down the list.

Edited June 4, 2022 by InCognitus

[Pyreaux]

There is no comparison. So-called missionaries that focus on demonizing us and telling us nothing about themselves at best serve to deconvert us into atheism rather than converting us to their faith. This gives the impression they rather make people lose their faith in God altogether than remain a Mormon.

[Navidad]

Just now, InCognitus said:

Those are carefully chosen words.  The primary message of the "detractors" is to show how "Mormonism" is "wrong" and to steer people away (detract) from becoming interested in the church.  If I had a way to do it, I'd show you some of their tracts so you could see for yourself.

Actually I would love to see some of them but I won't get into this because there is no purpose to it except it will irritate folks here. I'm sorry I posted on this. I simply believe that any faithful LDS church member would do his or her best to detract a member who is showing interest in a Pentecostal, Catholic, or even RLDS church, would they not? That is a rhetorical question - no need to answer. I guess I am not a fan of detracting anyone who is showing a sincere interest in anything, period. Take care. Oh, and I really would love to see some tracts. I haven't seen mean tracts since the Chik tracts (or whatever they were called) of fifty years ago. Thanks.

[Navidad]

3 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

There is no comparison. So-called missionaries that focus on demonizing us and telling us nothing about themselves at best serve to deconvert us into atheism rather than converting us to their faith. This gives the impression they rather make people lose their faith in God altogether than remain a Mormon.

Not sure I understand the photo. Is the guy on the left LDS and the guy on the right, who is he? Where is he from? What group does he claim to represent? How can I contact him? I'd love to talk to him. If he is legit and this isn't a spoof, maybe I can save him from being an idiot!

[InCognitus]

11 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Actually I would love to see some of them but I won't get into this because there is no purpose to it except it will irritate folks here. I'm sorry I posted on this. I simply believe that any faithful LDS church member would do his or her best to detract a member who is showing interest in a Pentecostal, Catholic, or even RLDS church, would they not? That is a rhetorical question - no need to answer. I guess I am not a fan of detracting anyone who is showing a sincere interest in anything, period. Take care. Oh, and I really would love to see some tracts. I haven't seen mean tracts since the Chik tracts (or whatever they were called) of fifty years ago. Thanks.

You may not have seen the link I inserted in my edit a few minutes ago.  That gives you a sample of their approach.

And no, I don't think any member of the Church would do anything like what the people in those photos are doing.  In our missionary work, we seek out people who are interested.  If they're not interested, then our 11th Article of Faith says it all, in my opinion:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."  (Articles of Faith 1:11)

Edited June 4, 2022 by InCognitus

[Pyreaux]

11 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Not sure I understand the photo. Is the guy on the left LDS and the guy on the right, who is he? Where is he from? What group does he claim to represent? How can I contact him? I'd love to talk to him. If he is legit and this isn't a spoof, maybe I can save him from being an idiot!

Exactly, is that one on the right a "missionary"?

[Navidad]

26 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

Those are carefully chosen words.  The primary message of the "detractors" is to show how "Mormonism" is "wrong" and to steer people away (detract) from becoming interested in the church.  If I had a way to do it, I'd show you some of their tracts so you could see for yourself.

Edit:  This link should give an example of what I mean, from the 2004 Easter Pageant:  Anti-Mormon efforts at the 2004 Mesa Easter Pageant.   Note the guy with the bullhorn in the sixth photo down the list.

Thanks for editing your post with this link. I enjoyed reading the signs and the responses on the Fair website. In addition to not being a fan of detractors, I am not a fan of normalizing - creating equivalency between the fringe and the norm of any group. Any group - one I agree with or those I disagree with. I think religious history is full of attempts by differing faiths to normalize, generalize, rank, and dehumanize the other. I regret them all. best wishes.

[InCognitus]

4 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Thanks for editing your post with this link. I enjoyed reading the signs and the responses on the Fair website. In addition to not being a fan of detractors, I am not a fan of normalizing - creating equivalency between the fringe and the norm of any group. Any group - one I agree with or those I disagree with. I think religious history is full of attempts by differing faiths to normalize, generalize, rank, and dehumanize the other. I regret them all. best wishes.

I agree 100%.

[Navidad]

Just now, Pyreaux said:

Exactly, is that one on the right a "missionary"?

I can't answer that question. I would have to talk with him and get to know his heart. Is the one of the left a missionary? I can't answer that either. Ditto for him. I was a missionary at 20 years of age. I think my heart was in the right place, but I sure did and said some dumb things at that age. Although in my job as a missionary I mostly dug wells, planted cotton and yams, and unloaded trucks of hospital supplies. Then I washed my clothes and repeated the previous day. Not much chance to try and convert anyone to anything. I did see a lot of very cool and very dangerous snakes doing what I did. Take care.

[Navidad]

19 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

You may not have seen the link I inserted in my edit a few minutes ago.  That gives you a sample of their approach.

And no, I don't think any member of the Church would do anything like what the people in those photos are doing.  In our missionary work, we seek out people who are interested.  If they're not interested, then our 11th Article of Faith says it all, in my opinion:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."  (Articles of Faith 1:11)

I have seen a lot of missionaries come through our ward here in Mexico in the last five years. Most have been very appropriate to say the least. Two or three (a small percentage) were pretty immature and apparently had not read the Articles of Faith 1:11. I am pleased to say that these were quickly reassigned somewhere by someone. They didn't stay long. I never asked about them. Our being "on the edge of inside" does have its boundaries.

In all my years of interacting with LDS missionaries going back to 1989 or so, they were the only exception I can think of to what you are describing. In our small village where we live, the mission president or someone has made a decision not to have missionaries come here any more. I miss them. My wife and I tried to be a haven of rest, water, or bathroom for them in our village. There are no active LDS members in our village and we are a twenty minute drive from where they always live. My wife and I often took them back and forth from here. We saved them (not literally) sometimes when someone forgot to come get them to take them back after an evening's teaching somewhere. I miss not having them here. We never had a negative word from any of them, except for those two doozies! Outliers at best!

[InCognitus]

14 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I have seen a lot of missionaries come through our ward here in Mexico in the last five years. Most have been very appropriate to say the least. Two or three (a small percentage) were pretty immature and apparently had not read the Articles of Faith 1:11. I am pleased to say that these were quickly reassigned somewhere by someone. They didn't stay long. I never asked about them. Our being "on the edge of inside" does have its boundaries.

In all my years of interacting with LDS missionaries going back to 1989 or so, they were the only exception I can think of to what you are describing. In our small village where we live, the mission president or someone has made a decision not to have missionaries come here any more. I miss them. My wife and I tried to be a haven of rest, water, or bathroom for them in our village. There are no active LDS members in our village and we are a twenty minute drive from where they always live. My wife and I often took them back and forth from here. We saved them (not literally) sometimes when someone forgot to come get them to take them back after an evening's teaching somewhere. I miss not having them here. We never had a negative word from any of them, except for those two doozies! Outliers at best!

You are right, there are always some exceptions.  I should have said "I don't think most members of the Church would do anything like what the people in those photos are doing".