Warlock Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, CV75 said: I found a TV station that shows the missing Honeymooners episodes. I love the Honeymooners
CV75 Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, Warlock said: I love the Honeymooners I like the episode where Ralph and Ed realize they are gods while they are initiated into the Racoon Lodge meeting. 1
Calm Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, CV75 said: I found a TV station that shows the missing Honeymooners episodes. You have lost me… 1
Warlock Posted July 21, 2021 Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Calm said: You have lost me… I'm also lost
Navidad Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/3/2021 at 12:57 PM, Kenngo1969 said: If someone were, overtly, to engage in such judgment, I might invite that person to "weed his or her own garden" Wow! I really like this. I have never heard that phrase before. My wife spends hours every day weeding her garden (literally). I don't spend nearly enough time weeding mine (figuratively). Thanks Kenngo1969 for your always interesting and enjoyable posts. 1
Navidad Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) On 7/3/2021 at 8:12 PM, mfbukowski said: And none of us—not you, not me, not Boyd K. Packer, no one—sees things as they are. Rather, we see things as we are. Have you thought of publishing a book of your wonderful phrases? "No one sees things as they are. Rather, we see things as we are! I am gonna change my answer on the thread of "What do you like about this forum" to "I like Kenngo1969's posts! Edited July 24, 2021 by Navidad spelling
mfbukowski Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 On 7/8/2021 at 10:18 AM, Esrom said: The essay link works now. People freak out about things like there's always some deep conspiracy under way. Shhhhh. THAT IS the real conspiracy, but don't tell anyone 2
mfbukowski Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Navidad said: Have you thought of publishing a book of your wonderful phrases? "No one sees things as they are. Rather, we see things as we are! I am gonna change my answer on the thread of "What do you like about this forum" to "I like Kenngo1969's posts! I do too! There is another poster who uses that also on her siggy... can't remember who at the moment .... But it IS really the whole basis for my way of seeing the world. We all are wearing sunglasses of different shades and so see all the colors of the world differently. Edited July 24, 2021 by mfbukowski 1
CV75 Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, Navidad said: Have you thought of publishing a book of your wonderful phrases? "No one sees things as they are. Rather, we see things as we are! I am gonna change my answer on the thread of "What do you like about this forum" to "I like Kenngo1969's posts! I think that quote is attributed to Brigham Young (???) -- Let's bombard @Kenngo1969 with "Likes" (and emojis!!!) if he can confirm that!
Kenngo1969 Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, CV75 said: I think that quote is attributed to Brigham Young (???) -- Let's bombard @Kenngo1969 with "Likes" (and emojis!!!) if he can confirm that! Well, I'm not sure where he got it from, but I got it from Stephen R. Covey. 3
Navidad Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, I'm not sure where he got it from, but I got it from Stephen R. Covey. Save for later with attachment Edited July 24, 2021 by Navidad
Navidad Posted July 24, 2021 Posted July 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, I'm not sure where he got it from, but I got it from Stephen R. Covey. I found citations for this quote from the Talmud to Covey. Of all those I found, I like this one the best: 4
mfbukowski Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, I'm not sure where he got it from, but I got it from Stephen R. Covey. Yeah that sounds good to me- one of our great Evil Relativist Comrads! Truth is what you think it is. Love it! 😡
mfbukowski Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Navidad said: I found citations for this quote from the Talmud to Covey. Of all those I found, I like this one the best: SO- what do y'all think about this in terms of relativism, and admitting that we all have our own "truth"?? That's the implication I have given these kinds of sayings for 50 years now! If there IS absolute truth- THIS is it : there is no absolute truth, just what we think is true individually, as it appears to us.
Navidad Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, mfbukowski said: SO- what do y'all think about this in terms of relativism, and admitting that we all have our own "truth"?? That's the implication I have given these kinds of sayings for 50 years now! If there IS absolute truth- THIS is it : there is no absolute truth, just what we think is true individually, as it appears to us. FWIW, I think there is both. What we most often deem truth is most often truth with a small t-truth. It is our experience, our belief, our lived experience, our facts, whatever most closely matches our perceived reality - "as it appears to us" as you said. Absolute truths are rare, few, and far between. they most often transcend our ability to understand them. Hence we even must approach them with more humility than certainty. We must take great care to proclaim them with great caution and scarcity. We as humans take great liberties in proclaiming truths and then deem anyone who doesn't agree as the "other." That automatically lessens the other and increases us as the sole proprietor of this or that truth. One thing I struggled with prior to posting the above quote is what the author might mean by saying "he will realize truth as other men see it." I looked up a bunch of dictionary definitions of the word "realize." I don't think it means agree with; I think it is more aligned with "understands" or "respects." I was comfortable with either of those definitions so I posted it. I watched Olympic archery today. Many whose aim is true, today often missed the bullseye. They got 8 or 9 points instead of ten. Getting 9 points isn't relativism. I know we have discussed this before so I won't belabor the point. I agree wholeheartedly with Neils Bohr that the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. The author of the quote I used in my post was a "Professor of Elocution" -what a great title - kind of reminds me of you, my friend. You are certainly a professor of elocution! Please take that as a compliment because that is how I mean it - it is my truth about you! Edited July 25, 2021 by Navidad 1
mfbukowski Posted July 25, 2021 Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Navidad said: FWIW, I think there is both. What we most often deem truth is most often truth with a small t-truth. It is our experience, our belief, our lived experience, our facts, whatever most closely matches our perceived reality - "as it appears to us" as you said. Absolute truths are rare, few, and far between. they most often transcend our ability to understand them. Hence we even must approach them with more humility than certainty. We must take great care to proclaim them with great caution and scarcity. We as humans take great liberties in proclaiming truths and then deem anyone who doesn't agree as the "other." That automatically lessens the other and increases us as the sole proprietor of this or that truth. One thing I struggled with prior to posting the above quote is what the author might mean by saying "he will realize truth as other men see it." I looked up a bunch of dictionary definitions of the word "realize." I don't think it means agree with; I think it is more aligned with "understands" or "respects." I was comfortable with either of those definitions so I posted it. I watched Olympic archery today. Many whose aim is true, today often missed the bullseye. They got 8 or 9 points instead of ten. Getting 9 points isn't relativism. I know we have discussed this before so I won't belabor the point. I agree wholeheartedly with Neils Bohr that the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. The author of the quote I used in my post was a "Professor of Elocution" -what a great title - kind of reminds me of you, my friend. You are certainly a professor of elocution! Please take that as a compliment because that is how I mean it - it is my truth about you! Well that was very kind, thank you! I think there ARE absolute truths- which I think will be surprising to hear from me, but they are truths of experience- like for example "You should do unto others as you would have them do unto you". This is not something deduced but something which can be observed through experience in living in society. It is ALWAYS THE BEST COURSE in dealing with others and has "survival value" in society. No one wants to live in a place where crime runs rampant, where stealing and robbery and murder happen all the time. We always want peace- that is part of what we ARE. And so if all follow that idea, we would live in peaceful places which allow for traditional family life- without going into details, each of those prinicples which allow traditional family life to flourish are also true in the same way. This kind of truth is not factual- it not a scientific truth like the boiling point of water, it does not "correspond to reality" but it IS a truth that allows humanity to flourish. It "works" every single time. "There is nothing constant but change" is I think another one of those statements which also is always true- and that goes back to a Greek philosopher named Heraclitus who taught that our personal stream of experience is like stepping into a river which is changing every second- leaves and branches flow down the river, the banks of the river pick up mud and deposit it elsewhere, etc. and he said that "You cannot step into the same river twice" Of course that is speaking in two contexts at once- the same debris and contents of the river are never exactly the same, and yet the process of change itself is "eternal" as long as the river exists. So in one sense, it will always be "The Mississippi River" yet from nanosecond to nanosecond the river is not the "same" as it was. So we know what truth is when we see it, we know what true or false means, but the word has so many contexts that one cannot come up with a definition which applies to every situation at all times. So even "eternal truth" like the eternal river flowing downstream changes and progresses. And that I think that is a good analogy for eternal revelation. Eternal truth can be seen as a PROCESS of revelation instead of a list of supposedly unchangeable facts which in fact change as humanity itself changes. One can see the river without worrying about the location of sticks flowing downstream, and thereby be always developing and changing while also being constant and eternal. And I think this also applies to the "Hie to Kolob" thread. There will always be an Eternal Father even if the person who occupies the position changes. OUR Father will always be OUR FATHER- but if there are other Fathers for other universes etc? Those speculations are far beyond our ability to process. There will always be books of scripture even if they are written by different people, for different cultures and times. Same principle Edited July 25, 2021 by mfbukowski
Tacenda Posted July 28, 2021 Posted July 28, 2021 Wasn't sure where to post this. The Lazy Learner thread or ? But didn't know the church had short videos to go with each essay and some new ones it appears to me, I could be wrong. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/video/answers-to-church-history-questions/2018-03-0010-joseph-smith-and-the-beginnings-of-polygamy?lang=eng But seriously how much can be learned by these short clips. Is it a form of gas lighting? And when I say form, I mean a minute one.
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