The Pronoun Wars Continue

[longview]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

At this point my opinion on the overall issue is there should be compromise from all sides, recognition of a greater spectrum while allowing for a relatively simple and safe way of referring to others.

Well, shure ! ! !  Let's keep ratcheting up the perversion until EVERYBODY is comfortable.

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Whether or not he can become something depends on what he wants to become. He seems to recognize the experience of living somewhat like a six year old as play therapy.

Is that what he said?  Or he could be simply going for notoriety and shock effect?

A photograph showing a horned drag queen reading a picture book to children at a Long Beach public library event is generating controversy. (Screenshot/Twitter)

[Calm]

13 hours ago, longview said:

Is that what he said?

He was quoted as saying that, but not sure if he was referring to playing with kids or the whole experience. 
 

added:

Quote

Let's keep ratcheting up the perversion until EVERYBODY is comfortable.

Generally compromises leave those who take more extreme positions unhappy, so I disagree my view leads to this. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Calm

[Amulek]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:29 AM, Meadowchik said:

Failure is one thing, refusal is another. 

I don't think I would be okay with using the power of government to punish someone for refusing to use my proper name either. 

 

Quote

Example: you send your child to school. The school does not like his name, picks another one for him. Neither you or you child want him to to be addressed that way.

You mean, the school assigns each student a number - kind of like inmates in a penitentiary - and then refers to everyone by his assigned number (e.g., Student 247, Student 336, etc.)?

Or maybe the school decides to just get rid of unique names all together and picks a single, gender neutral name to refer to every student: Comrade, for example.

I seem to remember hearing something about that being tried in a few school districts before, but maybe they were in another country. Can't remember how it turned out...  

 

Quote

If your classmates had asked you to call them their actual name or "purple" instead, would you?

Actual name? Probably not worth the effort most of the time (just being honest).

As for "purple," I could probably live with that - provided she actually had purple hair or wore purple every day.

But if she had pink hair and wore pink ever day, then I would probably call her 'pink' instead, regardless of her desire to be called purple.

 

Quote

Did you ever have someone persist in calling you by a nickname after you said you didn't want them to use it? 

I had a CEO at my first job who persistently called me by the wrong name...for years. I thought it was pretty funny actually, and it became kind of an inside joke among the team. Whenever she would call us in for a meeting everyone else in the group would go out of their way to call me by my 'wrong' name. I never once thought about bringing suit over the matter. 

And that's something that probably needs to be mentioned as well. If pronouns are going to become a lawsuit landmine for employers, I'll give you three guesses how the corporate world will respond.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Amulek

[longview]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Quote

 

Let's keep ratcheting up the perversion until EVERYBODY is comfortable.

Generally compromised leave those who take more extreme positions unhappy, so I disagree my view leads to this. 

Oh?  Just need to ratchet a little slower?  Got cha!

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, longview said:

Oh?  Just need to ratchet a little slower?  Got cha!

Misrepresenting what I said.  Please stop. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Calm

[smac97]

19 hours ago, Calm said:

Quote

What "absolutes" are you referencing here?

“Two genders” is not really an absolute given when many other cultures have more.

I don't think sex/gender is primarily a cultural construct, but rather a biological/chromosomal (and even spiritual) one.

19 hours ago, Calm said:

At this point my opinion on the overall issue is there should be compromise from all sides, recognition of a greater spectrum while allowing for a relatively simple and safe way of referring to others. 

I'm not sure I understand the reference to "safe."  How is safety an issue?

19 hours ago, Calm said:

Quote

And I still don't understand your perspective on whether Stefoknee can be a perpetual six-year-old girl.

I don’t have one.  

Okay.

19 hours ago, Calm said:

I don’t know him sufficiently to make that determination,

Then what about answering in the abstract?  Can a person "become" a six-year-old?

19 hours ago, Calm said:

but he doesn’t even appear to see himself as a six year old consistently.  He is not talking like a six year old, he works, he cares for himself like an adult at times. 

But if a person who was previously an adult now identifies as a child, do you go along and accept that identification?  

19 hours ago, Calm said:

Whether or not he can become something depends on what he wants to become.

I don't understand.  What things is he able to become and what these is he not able to become?  What are the rules?

19 hours ago, Calm said:

He seems to recognize the experience of living somewhat like a six year old as play therapy.

About about the gender thing?  Is he going through "the experience of living somewhat like a {female} as play therapy?"

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

I'm not sure I understand the reference to "safe." 

I meant that most people wouldn’t feel threatened or coerced to use it, but see it as reasonable.

The rest of the questions...

I am not going to do armchair, hypothetical psychology.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Calm

[ttribe]

The Slippery Slope Fallacy is in full force in this thread.

For the record, I do not condone forced compliance by government entities.

I also do not condone the disrespectful treatment of the trans community simply because your beliefs don't align with theirs.  There is literally no harm, whatsoever, to respecting an individual's request to be referred to under the pronoun of their choice.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, ttribe said:

There is literally no harm, whatsoever, to respecting an individual's request to be referred to under the pronoun of their choice.

I am not so sure that is true in every case, young and old. Stability is important in other areas of life, it possibly might be important here as well, though it might be better to allow experimentation. I think more research needs to be done, especially with minors. 

[ttribe]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I am not so sure that is true in every case, young and old. Stability is important in other areas of life, it possibly might be important here as well, though it might be better to allow experimentation. I think more research needs to be done, especially with minors. 

I definitely see your point on minors.  I would amend my statement to be applied to otherwise mentally healthy adults.

Edited March 29, 2021 by ttribe

[Damien the Leper]

On 3/27/2021 at 9:30 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

A devoutly religious upbringing is in no way comparable to choosing to change a 5- or 6-year-old's s*x for that child.  I think you know that, and, honestly, I'm disappointed.  I expect better of you.

In either case there can be serious problems both psychologically and emotionally. An attempt to one up the other as less traumatic would be both duplicitous and disingenuous. I'm not surprised by you at all and because I expect nothing better from you I can say that I am not disappointed and your response is quite the "yawn".

[Kenngo1969]

I read this, think it's interesting, and think that there's at least a chance (however small that chance may be) that it may be relevant, somehow, to this thread (or not).  Caveat lector.  We report, you decide! https://www.patheos.com/blogs/companionsonthejourney/2021/03/hail-homo-narcississimus/