Glad Tidings of Great Joy

[TheTanakas]

I had a question on this part of the manual.

https://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/manuals/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020/individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020-large-print-eng.pdf

Page 297 -  As you study Helaman 14, note the signs of the Savior's birth in verses 1–8 and
the signs of His death in verses 20–28.

Verses 26-27 say "And behold, thus hath the angel spoken unto me; for he said unto me 
that there should be thunderings and lightnings for the space of many hours. And he 
said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that 
these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for 
the space of three days".

I know from the Bible that darkness only lasted 3 hours.  So what is the "whole earth"
that Helaman refers to?  Is that only the Nephite lands or does it also include other
lands outside of Jerusalem (like China and India)?

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, TheTanakas said:

I had a question on this part of the manual.

https://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/manuals/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020/individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020-large-print-eng.pdf

Page 297 -  As you study Helaman 14, note the signs of the Savior's birth in verses 1–8 and
the signs of His death in verses 20–28.

Verses 26-27 say "And behold, thus hath the angel spoken unto me; for he said unto me 
that there should be thunderings and lightnings for the space of many hours. And he 
said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that 
these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for 
the space of three days".

I know from the Bible that darkness only lasted 3 hours.  So what is the "whole earth"
that Helaman refers to?  Is that only the Nephite lands or does it also include other
lands outside of Jerusalem (like China and India)?

The "whole earth" would refer to the lands within the scope of their individual lives.  It need not refer to anything beyond the Nephite lands.

There's an oft quoted portion of a sermon by Charles H. Spurgeon that discusses this usage of "all" or "whole" as it is used in the Bible:

Quote

 "The whole world is gone after Him." Did all the world go after Christ? "Then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan." Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God, little children," and "the whole world lieth in the wicked one." Does "the whole world" there mean everybody? If so, how was it, then, that there were some who were "of God?" The words "world" and "all" are used in seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile.

The verses referenced above are John 12:19, 1 John 5:19, and Luke 2:1.

[Kenngo1969]

If there was darkness in, say, China, after Christ died, how would people in Mesoamerica (or wherever events described in the Book of Mormon took place) know?  Did someone in Mesoamerica get an e-mail from his friend in China?  "Duuuuuude!  You wouldn't believe what's happening here!"?

Edited September 2, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

.................that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for the space of three days".

I know from the Bible that darkness only lasted 3 hours.  So what is the "whole earth"
that Helaman refers to?  Is that only the Nephite lands or does it also include other
lands outside of Jerusalem (like China and India)?

The same Hebrew and Greek word means either "earth" or "land," so that one must read for context.  Since the New Testament refers only to a local three hours of darkness, something in the Western Hemisphere could have created three days of darkness -- most likely something volcanic.

[Scott Lloyd]

“And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.”

All the world? You have to read for context and assume this means all the known world at that time, or, more particularly, the world then under the domination of Rome. 

[Judd]

47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

“And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.”

All the world? You have to read for context and assume this means all the known world at that time, or, more particularly, the world then under the domination of Rome. 

If you know bureaucracy and government, you can be certain that this really meant all the world. There’s a decent chance that if you go back to the Hebrew that the original word was universe.

[Ahab]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:25 AM, TheTanakas said:

I had a question on this part of the manual.

https://media.ldscdn.org/pdf/manuals/come-follow-me-for-individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020/individuals-and-families-book-of-mormon-2020-large-print-eng.pdf

Page 297 -  As you study Helaman 14, note the signs of the Savior's birth in verses 1–8 and
the signs of His death in verses 20–28.

Verses 26-27 say "And behold, thus hath the angel spoken unto me; for he said unto me 
that there should be thunderings and lightnings for the space of many hours. And he 
said unto me that while the thunder and the lightning lasted, and the tempest, that 
these things should be, and that darkness should cover the face of the whole earth for 
the space of three days".

I know from the Bible that darkness only lasted 3 hours.  So what is the "whole earth"
that Helaman refers to?  Is that only the Nephite lands or does it also include other
lands outside of Jerusalem (like China and India)?

They used hyperbole back then about as much as Donald Trump does now.  I use it sometimes myself. My wife uses it practically ALL of the time.

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

They used hyperbole back then about as much as Donald Trump does now.  I use it sometimes myself. My wife uses it practically ALL of the time.

Nope!  No hyperbole there!

[Ahab]

9 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Nope!  No hyperbole there!

Another example of hyperbole, there.  Well done.

[The Nehor]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:16 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

“And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.”

All the world? You have to read for context and assume this means all the known world at that time, or, more particularly, the world then under the domination of Rome. 

#Persiaispartofworld

[Scott Lloyd]

56 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

#Persiaispartofworld

Your point?

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Your point?

I was backing you since Persia was one of the primary contenders with Rome in that era and Caesar Augustus did not tax them. The joke may not have worked.