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Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


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4 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

We unfortunately live in a world where medical decisions affect pocketbooks and pocketbooks affect medical decisions.  And the lockdown decisions definitely affected economies.  So, why are you so keen to not tie the two together when there is such a close relationship?  It seems obvious that the economic results of medical information use or misuse would be an implication.  I don't see how avoiding this implication is helpful.  Why the fuss?

This meant to be mostly an open and ongoing resource thread for medical info to provide people with insight into how to care for themselves and others medically as well as to help prevent misunderstandings and misinformation about Covid itself and healthcare, not to discuss all its implications.  The thread would become too bulky and too hard to search for older posts if we didn’t narrow the topic. 
 

Also often when economic impact is discussed, it goes into politics almost immediately which takes over the medical  side of the thread.  Against the board rules as well as preventing the thread from doing what it is intended to do. 
 

So please discuss economics elsewhere.  If you do it again here, I will ask you to be banned from the thread to avoid derails and potential locking of the thread.

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16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, you can’t catch it from someone who got the vaccine. They don’t have it to catch.

Edit: Note that if they have Covid when they got the vaccine they can still spread it.

Someone won’t get it from the vaccine (they are not using live virus in the vaccine), but they can catch it in the same way they might before getting the vaccine. The vaccine is not 100% effective in preventing them getting it, especially right at the beginning when the body is just beginning to get its defenses arrayed. 
 

If they do catch it, they may become contagious as well. 

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15 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The COVID vaccine is only about 80% effective in preventing most peopl

Depends on which vaccine and when in the timeline one is talking about. The Pfizer and Moderna iirc are in the 90% effective range after two doses.  Iirc, they generally said two weeks after the dose before the vaccine starts to have a positive preventative effect. 

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4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

My wife OFTEN gets the flu when she is vaccinated.  I know that is allegedly impossible but I have seen it with my own eyes in her case several times. Yes it is a mild case, but she will feel fine, and then get a flu vaccination, and in a day or two after receiving it get flu symptoms- lasting for weeks in some cases.

I wonder if what is happening with your wife is similar to reports of vaccinated Covid survivors where the vaccine may trigger a similar set of symptoms flaring up again. 
 

From the earlier link:

A new study may explain why Dr. Romano and many others who have had Covid report these unexpectedly intense reactions to the first shot of a vaccine. In a study posted online on Monday, researchers found that people who had previously been infected with the virus reported fatigue, headache, chills, fever, and muscle and joint pain after the first shot more frequently than did those who had never been infected. Covid survivors also had far higher antibody levels after both the first and second doses of the vaccine.”

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

Depends on which vaccine and when in the timeline one is talking about. The Pfizer and Moderna iirc are in the 90% effective range after two doses.  Iirc, they generally said two weeks after the dose before the vaccine starts to have a positive preventative effect. 

Even so, my point was that the vaccines are not 100% effective at keeping someone from catching the virus, so anyone who gets the vaccine could still catch it and, if they caught it, someone else could catch it from them.

So, sorry mski, you and your wife could still possibly catch it.

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The Johnson and Johnson vaccine is a single shot and is 60% effective against mild and moderate, but 85% effective against severe. Its benefit is the single shot, important for when it is difficult for someone to manage two doses. 
 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/02/comparing-the-covid-19-vaccines-developed-by-pfizer-moderna-and-johnson-johnson/

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2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

my point was that the vaccines are not 100% effective a

I want this thread to have accurate as possible info, not misinformation even if not completely wrong. Might be best if you intend to provide any statistics to put up a link that supports them. Relying fully in memory tends to lead to mistakes. 

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1 minute ago, Calm said:

I want this thread to have accurate as possible info, not misinformation even if not completely wrong. Might be best if you intend to provide any statistics to put up a link that supports them. Relying fully in memory tends to lead to mistakes. 

not necessary.  All everyone needs to understand is that none of the vaccines come with a 100% guarantee that after you get the vaccine you won't catch the COVID virus.

They all at least reduce the likelihood of catching the worst of it though, or in other words, if you get the vaccine and still catch it, you have a better chance of not getting dead.

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11 minutes ago, Ahab said:

not necessary. 

It is if you want to post in this thread. Start your own if you want to put up stats you created yourself. 

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From my EDH alerts...been awhile since I am in doldrums time and not as good tracking meds...just assuming I am close enough.  Mot going to use quote boxes, so easier to read.  Links (underlined) should stay active hopefully. 
 

Johnson & Johnson revealed phase 3 trial data on January 29 indicating that its vaccine was 66 percent effective overall at preventing moderate to severe COVID-19, 28 days after inoculation.

Interim analysis showed, however, that the vaccine provided complete protection against COVID-related hospitalization and death, and it was 85 percent effective at preventing severe disease. 

Results were based on 43,783 participants, including 468 symptomatic cases. In looking at U.S. participants only, the vaccine was 72 effective, but that dropped to 57 percent in South Africa, where a highly contagious variant dominates...

Dr. Fauci added that the vaccine would be “value-added, both in the United States and, importantly, for developing nations for the following reasons: It’s a single-dose vaccine, not a two-dose vaccine. It’s relatively inexpensive. It doesn’t require a very stringent cold chain … it just requires a refrigerator.”“

 

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Statewide mask mandates have been linked to declines in hospitalizations. A study published Friday in the CDC’s Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report found that states with statewide mask mandates reported a decline in weekly COVID-associated hospitalization growth rates by up to 5.5 percentage points for adults age 18 to 64 after mandate implementation, compared with growth rates during the four weeks before issuing a mandate. Scientists concluded, “Mask wearing is a component of a multipronged strategy to decrease exposure to and transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and reduce strain on the healthcare system.””

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AstraZeneca's vaccine is highly effective against the U.K. variant. In a study published online Thursday in The Lancet, researchers reported that the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca is effective against the highly transmissible U.K. variant and works even better against more established versions of the virus.

Preliminary, preprint results in The Lancet have suggested that a vaccine developed by AstraZeneca offers 76 percent protection for three months after just one dose, according to the Washington Post. Even more significantly, people who received the vaccine were much less likely to transmit the disease. Researchers said the vaccine appeared to have a “substantial impact” on reducing transmission of the virus. The New York Times reported that the FDA will consider emergency use authorization after reviewing results from a clinical trial of 30,000 participants, which is expected to be presented later this month.”

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“Eeek”— an alarming mutation is showing up in virus variants and some U.S. cases. An investigation by the Washington Post published February 2 found that a “worrisome” virus mutation — nicknamed “Eeek” because it shows up at a site on the virus RNA called E484K — has been identified in coronavirus variants spreading rapidly in the United Kingdom, South Africa, and Brazil. The mutation has also been discovered in some U.S. cases.

The mutation appears to limit the protection of vaccines against infection. The Post said that the mutation may make the virus harder to detect and more difficult for the immune system to neutralize.

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned that a coronavirus variant first detected in the country in September may be about 30 percent more deadly than previous versions of the disease, according to USA Today.

Scientists have estimated that the U.K. variant is 30 to 70 percent more transmissible than the traditional COVID-19 virus”

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Schools can safely open even if teachers are not vaccinated, the CDC says. CDC director Dr. Walensky told reporters at a White House briefing on Wednesday that schools can safely reopen even if teachers are not vaccinated, citing data showing that social distancing and wearing a mask significantly reduce the spread of the virus in school settings. Many teachers, however, have expressed concerns about returning to school, potentially putting their health at risk”

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Vaccines are coming to a pharmacy near you.CNN reports that the White House will begin shipping about one million COVID-19 vaccine doses a week directly to about 6,500 retail pharmacies starting on February 11. Walgreens, CVS, and Rite Aid are among 21 national chains that will participate in the initial phase of the program. These doses sent directly to pharmacies will be in addition to the millions of doses already delivered weekly to states, territories, and tribes that are sometimes administered through local pharmacies.”

 

“Young adults drive the majority of U.S. infections. According to researchers at Imperial College London, adults between ages 20 and 49 are the biggest spreaders of COVID-19 in the United States. As reported by CNN, that age group accounted for about 72.2 percent of infections last year.”

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More Americans have now been vaccinated than infected. As of Wednesday, CDC figuresshow that about 32.7million Americans had received at least one of the doses of the coronavirus vaccine. According to Bloomberg News, that means more people in the United States are now immunized than have tested positive for the virus”

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“Novavax says its vaccine is nearly 90 percent effective. Biotech firm Novavax announced in a press release January 28 that its COVID-19 vaccine was more than 89 percent effective overall in a phase 3 clinical trial conducted in the United Kingdom. Efficacy by strain was calculated to be 95.6 percent against the original COVID-19 strain and 85.6 percent against the U.K. variant strain.

In a trial run separately in South Africa (where a distinct variant accounts for most infections), the vaccine was shown to be only 60 percent effective for the prevention of mild, moderate, and severe COVID-19 disease in a population that was HIV-negative.”

 

“An antibody drug offers protection against COVID-19, including new variants.Biotechnology firm Regeneron announced January 27 that its casirivimab and imdevimab antibody cocktail successfully neutralizes SARS-CoV-2 mutations first identified in the United Kingdom and South Africa.

The company released preliminary data showing that the casirivimab-imdevimab combo cut coronavirus infections by half in people at high risk (due to household exposure to a COVID-19 patient). While the treatment halved infections overall in the initial analysis of 400 participants, none of those receiving the drug developed symptoms from the virus.”

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The Russian vaccine is safe and effective, a study has found. Interim trial data published in The Lancet on Tuesday indicated that Russia’s Sputnik V vaccine is 91.6 percent effective against symptomatic COVID-19, and 100 percent effective against severe and moderate disease. No serious side effects were reported, and the inoculation was found to be similarly effective in elderly individuals.”

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Important, I think this has been mentioned here before:

Common pain relievers may dull vaccine’s effect. Some people have been taking pain relievers believing they will minimize common side effects of the COVID-19 vaccine such as temporary pain and swelling at the injection site, fevers, chills, tiredness, muscle aches and pains and headaches. A report from ABC News, however, warns that acetaminophen (Tylenol) or ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) may dull the effectiveness of the vaccine. Infectious disease experts interviewed say that pain relievers may prevent parts of the immune system from working and slow down the immune response”

iirc, it was important not to take anything prior to getting the vaccine.  Afterwards I thought was okay if you get any symptoms, but I will try to do more research to be sure. 

Edited by Calm
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Antibody treatment may prevent disease and lower risk of hospitalization and death.Drugmaker Eli Lilly announced that its drug bamlanivimab reduced the risk of contracting symptomatic COVID-19 by up to 80 percent among residents and staff of long-term care facilities. On January 26, the company released data indicating that bamlanivimab and etesevimab taken together reduced risk of COVID-19 hospitalizations and death by 70 percent.”

 

“Antibodies last for at least three months, and at least six months in most cases, a study has found. Research from U.K. Biobank published February 3 and based on 18,893 participants found that 99 percent of participants who had tested positive for COVID-19 retained antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 for three months after being infected, and 88 percent did so for the full six months of the study.”

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And tying into Mfb’s question...since vaccinated people can still get infected even if less of a chance, they still need to wear masks. 
 

Vaccinated individuals may still need to mask up to prevent transmission. In an investigation from The New York Times, scientists share concerns that vaccinated people may still pass the illness to others and will still need to wear face coverings go help prevent spreading the virus.”

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

I wonder if what is happening with your wife is similar to reports of vaccinated Covid survivors where the vaccine may trigger a similar set of symptoms flaring up again. 
 

From the earlier link:

A new study may explain why Dr. Romano and many others who have had Covid report these unexpectedly intense reactions to the first shot of a vaccine. In a study posted online on Monday, researchers found that people who had previously been infected with the virus reported fatigue, headache, chills, fever, and muscle and joint pain after the first shot more frequently than did those who had never been infected. Covid survivors also had far higher antibody levels after both the first and second doses of the vaccine.”

But that's the problem.

If it triggers the symptoms why cannot it be contagious?

 

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44 minutes ago, Calm said:

And tying into Mfb’s question...since vaccinated people can still get infected even if less of a chance, they still need to wear masks. 
 

Vaccinated individuals may still need to mask up to prevent transmission. In an investigation from The New York Times, scientists share concerns that vaccinated people may still pass the illness to others and will still need to wear face coverings go help prevent spreading the virus.”

And so this seems to say- or DOES say that vaccinated people can pass on the illness.

Why does this not apply to my question then?

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, you can’t catch it from someone who got the vaccine. They don’t have it to catch.

If vaccinated people have symptoms how is it true that "they don't have it to catch"?

Plus see above

Quote

 

Vaccinated individuals may still need to mask up to prevent transmission. In an investigation from The New York Times, scientists share concerns that vaccinated people may still pass the illness to others and will still need to wear face coverings go help prevent spreading the virus.”


 

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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49 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

If vaccinated people have symptoms how is it true that "they don't have it to catch"?

Plus see above

 

From CDC.gov: 

A Closer Look at How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Work

COVID-19 mRNA vaccines give instructions for our cells to make a harmless piece of what is called the “spike protein.” The spike protein is found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19.

COVID-19 mRNA vaccines are given in the upper arm muscle. Once the instructions (mRNA) are inside the immune cells, the cells use them to make the protein piece. After the protein piece is made, the cell breaks down the instructions and gets rid of them.

Next, the cell displays the protein piece on its surface. Our immune systems recognize that the protein doesn’t belong there and begin building an immune response and making antibodies, like what happens in natural infection against COVID-19.

At the end of the process, our bodies have learned how to protect against future infection. The benefit of mRNA vaccines, like all vaccines, is those vaccinated gain this protection without ever having to risk the serious consequences of getting sick with COVID-19.

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