Covid, Race Relations, Environment, Etc. - Alarmism + Misappropriation = Secret Combinations?

[JamesBYoung]

5 hours ago, blarsen said:

It's a toughie and a very broad subject.  First step is to actually admit the possibility of such things.  Most people, including LDS, can't take this first step, despite their scriptures and talks such as Pres. Benson's, I Testify talk, given in Fall Conference, 1988.

I think they can be discerned by their more public agendas, which may sound very good, but exact a very high price to achieve, usually at the expense of principles of liberty, good will and good governance.

🤦‍♂️

[blarsen]

4 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

You can back off all you want, but you can't hide your assertion.

Huh?  You lost me bud.  But your welcome to assert that I'm making an assertion.

[alter idem]

8 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

That is an assertion, blarsen.  Prove it.  Just don't assert and say "see?"

I think we can find a lot of evidence there are people working to undermine the constitutional government and 'fundamentally transform' the US from the representative republic we now have, but to do so, would mean a political discussion, and they aren't allowed.

The secret combinations that destroyed the Jaredites are a warning to us. Groups working in secret,  protecting eachother, as they plot and put into motion plans and events  to undermine and overthrow the legitimate authority in the land.  If we study the Book of Mormon,  and pay attention to current events, we should be able to pick out the parallels and the warning signs. Pres Bensen would be sounding the wake up call if he had been alive today, no doubt.

Edited July 2, 2020 by alter idem

[USU78]

3 minutes ago, alter idem said:

I think we can find a lot of evidence there are people working to undermine the constitutional government and 'fundamentally transform' the US from the representative republic we now have, but to do so, would mean a political discussion. 

Dang tricky problem, ain't it?

[blarsen]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

"secret combinations", "destroying the existing order" "medical tyranny" etc.?  You prove my point.  Alarmism, hysteria, etc. etc. etc.  Feed the flames! 

Alarmism: it is only bad if you can actually see something to be alarmed about.  That seems to be the message around these parts.

I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by out-of-proportion  'demonstrations' that devolve into rioting and destruction of property and involve taking over and burning police precincts, defunding-the-police, setting up 'new countries' in places such as Seattle, claims of universal racism, pulling down historical statues, etc., etc.   What does it actually take for you to be alarmed, I'm wondering?  But perhaps you are alarmed by these things.  For me, it is fascinating that they were ramped up when thousands of young people were foot loose and fancy free.  Interesting timing, imo.

My projected scenario was presented tongue-in-cheek to some degree, but for me its an interesting exercise to speculate about such things, and it was in the spirit of the OP.  You obviously have a different mentality.

And there are alarming events surrounding the whole COVID-19 scenario, which you apparently aren't aware of.

Just curious, what exactly do you think of the claim made by Pres. Benson regarding Secret Combinations in his I testify speech, Fall Conference, 1988.  He basically updated Moroni's claims for such organizations in the last days.   Was he full of pink ink?  As I recall that was his last public talk.

 

[alter idem]

To name a couple other things that prove we need to wake up as a nation, were the recent attempt to make Washington DC a state, and the ever more popular calls in recent elections to abolish the electoral college. I don't think these are haphazard off the cuff suggestions,  instead, a lot of time, money and planning, in private with groups working together, is being extended to see these objectives fulfilled, in a quest for more power and control which the founding fathers attempted to thwart. These are characteristics of secret combinations.  But, to go into more detail would be to political, I think, for this forum. 

 

[pogi]

8 hours ago, blarsen said:

I'm surprised you aren't alarmed by out-of-proportion  'demonstrations' that devolve into rioting and destruction of property and involve taking over and burning police precincts, defunding-the-police, setting up 'new countries' in places such as Seattle, claims of universal racism, pulling down historical statues, etc., etc.   What does it actually take for you to be alarmed, I'm wondering?  But perhaps you are alarmed by these things.  For me, it is fascinating that they were ramped up when thousands of young people were foot loose and fancy free.  Interesting timing, imo.

Why build up a huge straw-man before considering I might feel differently?

Interesting, you ask?  Not really.   Conspiracy theory much?  Let me guess, the cop/s that killed George Floyd were deep state agents conspiring to take over the country. Timing had to be just right, right?

8 hours ago, blarsen said:

And there are alarming events surrounding the whole COVID-19 scenario, which you apparently aren't aware of.

More alarmism.  Let me guess Fauci is an agent for the deep-state.  Wouldn’t be the first time I heard it on these forums.  
How ironic this all is.
 

8 hours ago, blarsen said:

Just curious, what exactly do you think of the claim made by Pres. Benson regarding Secret Combinations in his I testify speech, Fall Conference, 1988.  He basically updated Moroni's claims for such organizations in the last days.   Was he full of pink ink?  As I recall that was his last public talk.

Same thing he always talked about when speaking of secret combinations - communism.  Is that what you are “alarmed” about?  Do you think there are deep-state, dirty commie agents infiltrating our government and paying homeless people to turn over cars and take over blocks of cities so that we will all become commies one day?  

Let’s rack that hysteria dial up to 11!  The more you speak, the more you keep proving my point.
 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by pogi

[BlueDreams]

8 hours ago, alter idem said:

To name a couple other things that prove we need to wake up as a nation, were the recent attempt to make Washington DC a state, and the ever more popular calls in recent elections to abolish the electoral college. I don't think these are haphazard off the cuff suggestions,  instead, a lot of time, money and planning, in private with groups working together, is being extended to see these objectives fulfilled, in a quest for more power and control which the founding fathers attempted to thwart. These are characteristics of secret combinations.  But, to go into more detail would be to political, I think, for this forum. 

 

I disagree with your assessment. DC statehood has been wanted by many since i can remember (i grew up south of DC where it was discussed 2 decades ago). It also very hard to say the electoral college is even living up to its initial function that the founding fathers wanted. I’m going ro skirt politics again and not dig into either point too far. Instead i’m going to point to Alma 2 on this one about the electoral college. In this Amlici is trying to become a king for the people. This was concerning to most who hadn’t been drawn into his teaching and  debate and vote was established to decide whether he really should represent the people as a king. They voted him down, the majority choosing the current form of government and ruling. (Or as they put it the voice of the people came against amlici v7)...which started a bit of a civil war when amlici refuse to seced his claims. 

now hypothetically imagine that there was a system in place that disproportionately weighted the minority voice of the nephites. Amlici would have won and they would have hd a wicked king who would have repressed righteousness and freedom. That would not have been just or true. Whether you agree with it or not, THAT is the concern for those that want to remove or reform the electoral college. The voice of the people aren’t truly being represented. 
 

I don’t want to get into a debate about politics and break rules. What I do want to say is it’s always interesting how we read terms into our world. With my religious siblings when we’ve discussed king Noah we see some direct parallels to a specific leader in the white house (to be clear, our political views/affiliations are actually fairly broad...our disdain for the current sitting president is not). 
As a supporter of BLM, I’ve personally found comfort recently from scriptures like in Alma 10:21 that describes the Lord coming down among his people with “equity and justice.” 
Themes of pride, persecuting the poor leading to community destruction, a need for care of vulnerable parts of the population pop out to me all the time. I saw parts of our capitalist society that has moved (IMHO, of course) to an extreme that disproportionately benefits the rich in Zeezrom’s description of his lawyer profession: “now the object of the lawyers was to get gain; and they got gain according to their employ.” (Alma 10:32). And a parallel to the foundation of our destruction being laid by the unrighteousness of these lawyers and judges (alma 10:27) that maintain an inequitable society and fuel a oppressive intent towards the government and the main church. 
 

i could keep going, but the main point is that in the same way you see oppression or a power grab, i see the voice of the people and a desire for a more representative democracy. And that viewpoint will color how we read the scriptures. Likewise for the OP. 
 

with luv, 

BD

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, alter idem said:

To name a couple other things that prove we need to wake up as a nation, were the recent attempt to make Washington DC a state, and the ever more popular calls in recent elections to abolish the electoral college. I don't think these are haphazard off the cuff suggestions,  instead, a lot of time, money and planning, in private with groups working together, is being extended to see these objectives fulfilled, in a quest for more power and control which the founding fathers attempted to thwart. These are characteristics of secret combinations.  But, to go into more detail would be to political, I think, for this forum. 

 

I'd be fine to see the electoral college eliminated!

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I disagree with your assessment. DC statehood has been wanted by many since i can remember (i grew up south of DC where it was discussed 2 decades ago). It also very hard to say the electoral college is even living up to its initial function that the founding fathers wanted. I’m going ro skirt politics again and not dig into either point too far. Instead i’m going to point to Alma 2 on this one about the electoral college. In this Amlici is trying to become a king for the people. This was concerning to most who hadn’t been drawn into his teaching and  debate and vote was established to decide whether he really should represent the people as a king. They voted him down, the majority choosing the current form of government and ruling. (Or as they put it the voice of the people came against amlici v7)...which started a bit of a civil war when amlici refuse to seced his claims. 

now hypothetically imagine that there was a system in place that disproportionately weighted the minority voice of the nephites. Amlici would have won and they would have hd a wicked king who would have repressed righteousness and freedom. That would not have been just or true. Whether you agree with it or not, THAT is the concern for those that want to remove or reform the electoral college. The voice of the people aren’t truly being represented. 
 

I don’t want to get into a debate about politics and break rules. What I do want to say is it’s always interesting how we read terms into our world. With my religious siblings when we’ve discussed king Noah we see some direct parallels to a specific leader in the white house (to be clear, our political views/affiliations are actually fairly broad...our disdain for the current sitting president is not). 
As a supporter of BLM, I’ve personally found comfort recently from scriptures like in Alma 10:21 that describes the Lord coming down among his people with “equity and justice.” 
Themes of pride, persecuting the poor leading to community destruction, a need for care of vulnerable parts of the population pop out to me all the time. I saw parts of our capitalist society that has moved (IMHO, of course) to an extreme that disproportionately benefits the rich in Zeezrom’s description of his lawyer profession: “now the object of the lawyers was to get gain; and they got gain according to their employ.” (Alma 10:32). And a parallel to the foundation of our destruction being laid by the unrighteousness of these lawyers and judges (alma 10:27) that maintain an inequitable society and fuel a oppressive intent towards the government and the main church. 
 

i could keep going, but the main point is that in the same way you see oppression or a power grab, i see the voice of the people and a desire for a more representative democracy. And that viewpoint will color how we read the scriptures. Likewise for the OP. 
 

with luv, 

BD

Thanks for this, I feel like I'm not going as insane!

[JamesBYoung]

Well, the government reform suggestions above were in the open, thus certainly not "secret combinations" methodology as witnessed in the days of the Jaredites.

I fully agree with blarsen and alter idem that we should all be vigilant.

That is just common sense.

And a strong 'huzza' for the no politics rule on this Board.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, JamesBYoung said:

I fully agree with blarsen and alter idem that we should all be vigilant.

I also agree that we should all be spiritually vigilant at all times.   What I see here is not vigilance.  This is fear mongering.  When people sincerely believe that there is a invisible enemy in a crisis, they will start searching and will always find one (even if there isn't one).  That is dangerous.   I have seen it over and over.  It can be spiritually destructive.  The very people that are trying to help us become the enemy of righteousness.  For example, it was just a few weeks ago that a poster was accusing Dr. Fauci and others of being a deep-state agent working in a conspiracy to take over the country.  Likewise, blarsen is throwing around phrases like "medical tyranny".  That is dangerous in a time like this when we need to look to our medical experts.  I understand why some people have lost some trust in them because of poor messaging and other mistakes, but that is not reason to suggest that the medical establishment is seeking to overthrow our liberties.  Those kind of unfounded theories and suggestions are baseless and reckless.  It feeds on peoples fears and anxieties and turns good public servants into conniving villains.  It is not right and it is not a righteous or spiritually healthy way to live.

We should all be vigilant, but this is not the way to do that.  This is reckless.  It is not surprising however and should be expected in times of crisis.  But make no mistake, it is not the spiritually healthy vigilance that we should all aspire for.  It is dangerous:

  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/202005/why-do-conspiracy-theories-flourish-during-crisis

Edited July 2, 2020 by pogi

[Anijen]

9 hours ago, alter idem said:

To name a couple other things that prove we need to wake up as a nation, were the recent attempt to make Washington DC a state, and the ever more popular calls in recent elections to abolish the electoral college. I don't think these are haphazard off the cuff suggestions,  instead, a lot of time, money and planning, in private with groups working together, is being extended to see these objectives fulfilled, in a quest for more power and control which the founding fathers attempted to thwart. These are characteristics of secret combinations.  But, to go into more detail would be to political, I think, for this forum. 

 

I agree. I predict you will see more places trying to achieve statehood or more rumors and attempts of states splitting and becoming more states. Why? Mainly, because Congress has easily elected  their partisan choices via the number of representatives they produce by the population they have. Yet population does not matter for Senate positions. Thus, for example if California splits into two (or more) states they would achieve 2 senators for each state. The Same with Guam, Puerto Rico, the District of Columbia, etc.. This would cause those now liberal (territories/future states) a majority of senate votes and thus control both Houses. Electoral college would be diminished because the fly-over states would have an inefficient voice (almost that way now). Then you will see religious freedoms being taken away in huge chunks and not small increments as we see that occurring now.

[smac97]

22 hours ago, alter idem said:

Watching the video, I don't understand why protesters are allowed to obstruct traffic. To me this should make the city liable for any harm or damage. If pedestrians get in trouble for wandering in traffic outside designated crosswalks, why are protestors exempt from laws of safety? 

Provo City categorizes protests as "special events" (see here).

A permit is required for special events that are to take place on city property (see here).  

"City property" includes locations such as "city parks, city owned parking lots, city streets and sidewalks" (see here).  

Some of the requirements for holding a "special event" in Provo (in addition for applying for, paying for and obtaining a permit) include: 

• Applying for the permit 90 days before the event;
• A review fee ($50);
• A "Road Closure Petition" (if closing off a road for the event is planned);
• Compliance with noise ordinances or an excepti n from said ordinances;
• A "medical plan" (depending on the size and type of event);
• Insurance "of at least $1 million per occurrence with a $2 million aggregate limit naming Provo City, its officers, employees and volunteers as additional insured";
• An indemnification agreement;
• Review and approval of the permit application for the event by  the City’s Special Events Review Committee;
• A map and description of the anticipated protest;
• Approval for holding an event downtown (which is what happened on Monday and last night);
• A "legible, detailed Traffic Control Plan showing intersections, roads, and sidewalks affected" by the planned protest;
• Rental of "traffic control devices from a licensed barricade company";
• Barricades at all intersections where full street closures are planned;
• Police officers are required at all intersections that are controlled by a traffic light; and
• The applicant assumes all liability of the applicant’s use of the street during the specified period.

Does anyone seriously think the mendacious idiots who incited the protests on Monday, and held them again on Wednesday, went through these normative procedures?

And if they didn't, why were the protests allowed?  Why were police not out in force on Monday?  Was their absence attributable to the police department only?  Or did Mayor Kaufusi issue any "kid gloves / hands off" edicts?  If she did, if she issued any sort of "stand down" order to the police, then I think she need to resign.

I also think there needs to be a review of how Provo PD handled Monday's mob violence.  They let protesters take over the streets.  Was that happenstance?  Did they not know about it beforehand?  Or was there a calculated decision made beforehand to let the protesters take over the streets on Monday?

Mayor Kaufusi is in the gubernatorial race as Jon Huntsman's ticket.  If she (or the police chief) exempted Monday's protesters from the normative application process for having a "special event," I hope the city gets sued.  Many times over. 

And if Mayor Kaufusi exempted Monday's protesters from the normative application process, I think she should resign, both as mayor and as Jon Huntsman's running mate.  Her career is politics and public service should be over.  There need to be real adverse consequences to public servants who abdicate the most essential of their duties.

Thanks,

-Smac

[alter idem]

37 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I disagree with your assessment. DC statehood has been wanted by many since i can remember (i grew up south of DC where it was discussed 2 decades ago). It also very hard to say the electoral college is even living up to its initial function that the founding fathers wanted. I’m going ro skirt politics again and not dig into either point too far. Instead i’m going to point to Alma 2 on this one about the electoral college. In this Amlici is trying to become a king for the people. This was concerning to most who hadn’t been drawn into his teaching and  debate and vote was established to decide whether he really should represent the people as a king. They voted him down, the majority choosing the current form of government and ruling. (Or as they put it the voice of the people came against amlici v7)...which started a bit of a civil war when amlici refuse to seced his claims. 

now hypothetically imagine that there was a system in place that disproportionately weighted the minority voice of the nephites. Amlici would have won and they would have hd a wicked king who would have repressed righteousness and freedom. That would not have been just or true. Whether you agree with it or not, THAT is the concern for those that want to remove or reform the electoral college. The voice of the people aren’t truly being represented. 
 

I don’t want to get into a debate about politics and break rules. What I do want to say is it’s always interesting how we read terms into our world. With my religious siblings when we’ve discussed king Noah we see some direct parallels to a specific leader in the white house (to be clear, our political views/affiliations are actually fairly broad...our disdain for the current sitting president is not). 
As a supporter of BLM, I’ve personally found comfort recently from scriptures like in Alma 10:21 that describes the Lord coming down among his people with “equity and justice.” 
Themes of pride, persecuting the poor leading to community destruction, a need for care of vulnerable parts of the population pop out to me all the time. I saw parts of our capitalist society that has moved (IMHO, of course) to an extreme that disproportionately benefits the rich in Zeezrom’s description of his lawyer profession: “now the object of the lawyers was to get gain; and they got gain according to their employ.” (Alma 10:32). And a parallel to the foundation of our destruction being laid by the unrighteousness of these lawyers and judges (alma 10:27) that maintain an inequitable society and fuel a oppressive intent towards the government and the main church. 
 

i could keep going, but the main point is that in the same way you see oppression or a power grab, i see the voice of the people and a desire for a more representative democracy. And that viewpoint will color how we read the scriptures. Likewise for the OP. 
 

with luv, 

BD

We can't discuss politics so there's no point in addressing point by point.

I know statehood for DC is not new, but you must acknowledge that it wasn't ever popular,  ever, with the voters. This time it had unanimous partisan support in congress except for one lone dissenter. The plan is to add two additional senators for a particular party, to gain the majority. But it also gives opportuntity to concentrate power in one tiny 'state'. 

I trust the judgment of the founders. As supported in revelation,  I trust they were  warned and inspired to set up the country with help from Heavenly Father.  I trust the founders a ton more than modern politicians, who I won't get started on.

The majority rule in this country would mean the dense population urban areas would control elections,  which not surprisingly,  benefits one of the  parties. The Electoral College has prevented that and given less populated states a voice as well. 

Imo, This is a power grab, it's following the patterns of past events where nations have been overthrown and communiist and fascist governments have taken over. But unfortunately our schools have not taught these history lessons the last 40 years, that unless they've educated themselves, they have no idea they're reenacting history. 

You undermine and destabilize a country, cause trouble within, lie to them that you offer stability and a better system, but the cost will be freedom and religion is always suppressed or outlawed. There is no country in the world like the United States of America., and it's forever been in the cross hairs of despot controlled government systems and their adherents.

Tearing down statues, indiscriminately,  is a dead giveaway of the idealogy we're dealing with. 

Fyi, the organization you support has admitted on their website their goal is to do away with the 'western' nuclear family. Since when was 'family' a western idea? And how is the goal of the destruction of the family compatible with the principles and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?   I doubt many lds who display the little black square actually know what they've embraced. So yea, there are secret combinations out there and people need to Wake Up, imo.

[USU78]

Appears there's politics, and then there's politics.

[pogi]

34 minutes ago, alter idem said:

Fyi, the organization you support has admitted on their website their goal is to do away with the 'western' nuclear family. Since when was 'family' a western idea? And how is the goal of the destruction of the family compatible with the principles and doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?   

This is why I have no faith in these conspiracy theories.  When you look closely at the evidence, it vanishes into thin air mysteriously.

Let's put it in context shall we?

Quote

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

They are not trying to do away with families!  That is a lie.  They are simply broadening that idea into the VERY Christian view of seeing and treating each other as a community of brothers and sisters to parents and children in family units.  "It takes a village", is what I hear. 

Further from their website:

Quote

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. 

Doesn't sound like they want to destroy the family unit to me.  Of course, this is all part of the cloak and daggers, right?

Edited July 2, 2020 by pogi

[Anijen]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

I also agree that we should all be spiritually vigilant at all times.   This is not the vigilance.  This is fear mongering.  When people sincerely believe that there is a invisible enemy in a crisis, they will start searching and will always find one (even if there isn't one).

Yet, secret combinations foretold in the Book of Mormon are in fact secret (invisible enemies). They exist, without being affected by the particular fact they are invisible (hence secret).

Quote

  That is dangerous.   I have seen it over and over.  It can be spiritually destructive

Exactly, to be spiritually destructive is the goal of secret combinations.

Quote

The very people that are trying to help us become the enemy of righteousness.  For example, it was just a few weeks ago that a poster was accusing Dr. Fauci and others of being a deep-state agent working in a conspiracy to take over the country. 

Well I would submit that poster needs help if he is suffering from paranoia. However, diagnosing a poster with fear-mongering (paranoia) without meeting him/her face-to face is the proper way to treat that, not over a discussion board which is highly unprofessional.

Quote

blarsen is throwing around phrases like "medical tyranny".  That is dangerous in a time like this when we need to look to our medicon the internet

Is it okay for you to single out a named poster for voicing his/her opinion and calling it "dangerous?" Yet, you throw out and label all those who do not subscribe to your perspective as "fear mongering." You accuse an Apostle of the Lord of putting lives at risk because your definition of freedom is more important simply for expressing his message that in these times religious freedom is paramount.  

Quote

but that is not reason to suggest that the medical establishment is seeking to overthrow our liberties. 

Don't take it so personally. I do not think the medical establishment is seeking to overthrow our liberties and I do not believe most the posters here think that either. I do feel that the pandemic has been politicized and politicians on both sides are seeking to overthrow some of our liberties to further their agendas. Which, btw, could be considered a secret combination in a small sense.

Quote

Those kind of unfounded theories and suggestions are baseless and reckless. 

Just as baseless and reckless as accusing others of putting people's lives at risk, or diagnosing paranoia over the internet, or labeling someone a fearmonger.

Quote

It feeds on peoples fears and anxieties and turns good public servants into conniving villains. 

Some people have legitimate fears, some have legitimate anxieties, some politicians are conniving villains. 

Quote

It is not right and it is not a righteous or spiritually healthy way to live.

Which was one of Elder Bednar's points that we need to hold fast to our religious rights so that we may maintain our righteous and spiritual health (I am paraphrasing Elder Bednar's talk)

Quote

We should all be vigilant against secret combinations. 

I completely, 100%, absolutely agree.

Quote

This is not the way to do that. 

Oh, I see we must do it in a manner you persee as right. Heaven forbid, we do it in a manner Elder Bednar would like, or someone less informed would like. We must do it your way. Your point of view is not subscribed to by some of the people on this internet discussion board. Or, in the alternative should I say those paranoid, fear mongering, spiritually unhealthy, unrighteous, dangerous, also those committing medical tyranny, and the spiritually destructive on this board? Note; not my phrases but the one you were "throwing around."

Quote

This is reckless. It is not surprising however, and should be expected in times of crisis.  But make no mistake, it is not the spiritually healthy vigilance that we should all aspire for.  It is dangerous:

How would you solve the problem? What would you do to preserve religious liberty? What would you do to preserve the right to assemble? How long do you suggest we should limit those freedoms to be safe from a politized crisis?

Thanks

[Anijen]

39 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Appears there's politics, and then there's politics.

Yup. I have learned to add the religious aspect to what is being politicized so that it is still within the boards guidelines.

[pogi]

23 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Well I would submit that poster needs help if he is suffering from paranoia. However, diagnosing a poster with fear-mongering (paranoia) without meeting him/her face-to face is the proper way to treat that, not over a discussion board which is highly unprofessional.

Since when is fear-mongering a diagnosis?  Since when is fear mongering only associated with paranoia?

23 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Is it okay for you to single out a named poster for voicing his/her opinion and calling it "dangerous?"

 

Why not?  It was a direct quote.  I find it dangerous.  Do you want me to pretend otherwise?  

Quote

Yet, you throw out and label all those who do not subscribe to your perspective as "fear mongering." 

Fearmongering: "the action of deliberately arousing public fear or alarm about a particular issue."  Isn't that the point of all of these conspiracy theories?  Isn't the point of all this to inspire vigilance by deliberately arousing alarm of hidden conspirators behind current events, despite not having any evidence of the whatsoever.  Seems to fit perfectly.  I am just pointing out the irony.  The OP started out by asking - "why all the alarmism"? 

23 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Which was one of Elder Bednar's points that we need to hold fast to our religious rights so that we may maintain our righteous and spiritual health (I am paraphrasing Elder Bednar's talk)

And I agree with Elder Bednar on that point.

23 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Oh, I see we must do it in a manner you persee as right. 

Just sharing my opinion, just like the rest of you.  I am not trying to force anyone to do anything, I am just pointing out my concerns of believing that these groups and crisis events are being driven by invisible enemies trying to subjugate us, without any evidence.  I don't think that is spiritually healthy. I think it can be extremely dangerous to public health by causing us to distrust our experts. Feel free to disagree.

23 minutes ago, Anijen said:

How would you solve the problem? What would you do to preserve religious liberty? What would you do to preserve the right to assemble? How long do you suggest we should limit those freedoms to be safe from a politized crisis?

 What problem?  I don't see the 10th amendment as a problem.  

Edited July 2, 2020 by pogi

[Anijen]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'd be fine to see the electoral college eliminated!

Would you also want to get rid of the two senators per state and go purely by population? If not, why not?

Religious freedoms and other rights are on the line.

[USU78]

8 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Yup. I have learned to add the religious aspect to what is being politicized so that it is still within the boards guidelines.

Shhhhhh. It'll be our little secret 😉

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, Anijen said:

Would you also want to get rid of the two senators per state and go purely by population? If not, why not?

Religious freedoms and other rights are on the line.

I guess I just want my vote to count but admit I'm not too savvy on the whole thing, but willing to learn more. 

This gets me every time:

Edited July 2, 2020 by Tacenda

[Anijen]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

 What problem?  I don't see the 10th amendment as a problem.  

Can you be more specific? The pandemic problem and staying safe without limiting our religious freedoms or right to assemble. I never mentioned the Tenth Amendment, but please, if you want, include it in your answer (without making it a political post)

Quote

How would you solve the problem? What would you do to preserve religious liberty? What would you do to preserve the right to assemble? How long do you suggest we should limit those freedoms to be safe from a politized crisis?

 

[pogi]

When does believing in secret combination become dangerous propagation of unhealthy conspiracy theories by trying to tie all current crisis events into a coordinated effort against freedom?

There should be ground rules to prevent things from getting out of hand.  I find it completely unreasonable to spit-out any reckless theory one can think up and then try to use President Benson and the Book of Mormon to defend their theories because these secret combinations exist.