Church and Naacp Release Joint Statement on Recent Violence

[smac97]

Here:

Quote

The leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has again linked arms with the NAACP, this time with an appeal to "join us in a journey of understanding and overcoming."

President Russell M. Nelson joined NAACP President and CEO Derrick Johnson, Leon Russell, NAACP chairman of the board, and The Rev. Amos C. Brown, NAACP chairman emeritus of religious affairs, in a joint op-ed posted on Medium early Monday under the title "Locking arms for racial harmony in America."

The group shared their "deep sorrow for the senseless, heinous act of violence that needlessly took the life of George Floyd. We mourn with his family, friends and community. We likewise look on with sadness at the anger, hate, contempt and violence spilling onto America’s streets, devastating cities across the nation, and creating fear and anxiety in citizens across this great land."

They added that "the wheels of justice should move fairly for all. Jesus of Nazareth came that we might have life, and have it 'more abundantly.' We should follow His example and seek for an abundant life for all God’s children. This includes protecting our brothers and sisters who have been wronged and bringing to justice those who have taken life or broken the law, thus robbing others of an abundant life."

The article ran 42 years to the day that the Church of Jesus Christ ended priesthood and temple restrictions for black members of the church.

To solve the problems of injustice and inequality, they invited all "to love God first, and then to love our neighbor as ourselves. We don’t pretend that either of these pursuits is easy, but we do declare that they yield the fruits the Lord promised."

Further, it "is more crucial than ever," for parents, teachers and others to teach children "to love all, and find the good in others.

"Oneness is not sameness in America. We must all learn to value the differences," it reads.

"We likewise call on government, business, and educational leaders at every level to review processes, laws, and organizational attitudes regarding racism and root them out once and for all," the article says. "It is past time for every one of us to elevate our conversations above divisive and polarizing rhetoric. Treating others with respect matters. Treating each other as sons and daughters of God matters."

Read the full op-ed on Medium.

I add my meager voice to these. 

Thanks,

-Smac

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Here:

I add my meager voice to these. 

Thanks,

-Smac

President Nelson is the main spokesman for our church, as well as for our Lord, so it is generally understood that when he says something in an official capacity for our church, he is speaking for us.

So your voice was already added to his when he spoke on behalf of our church.  It was still nice for me to hear, again, that you agree with him, though.

[stemelbow]

Good move, of course.  

I really do like how religion has, to some extent, learned to adapt and embrace the secular elements that are forcing our archaic and unhelpful religious notions formerly inspired by God into the dustbin.  I mean its odd they want or need to promote God without acknowledging his role in the problem itself.  I know they don't think God is the problem, but the problem was those who claimed to be inspired by God, they were mistaken.  Or else God allowed the wrongness and allowed them to pretend it was because of Him, because He knew people, in their carnal state, couldn't be nice.  

I mean whatever.  I don't know that we adequately resolve our issues if we continue to promote the very cause of them.  

[pogi]

8 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I mean whatever.  I don't know that we adequately resolve our issues if we continue to promote the very cause of them.  

Are you suggesting that we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion?  Is that what you are saying? 

Edited June 8, 2020 by pogi

[smac97]

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Good move, of course.  

I really do like how religion has, to some extent, learned to adapt and embrace the secular elements that are forcing our archaic and unhelpful religious notions formerly inspired by God into the dustbin. 

Advocacy of racial harmony is a "secular" thing?

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I mean its odd they want or need to promote God without acknowledging his role in the problem itself.  I know they don't think God is the problem, but the problem was those who claimed to be inspired by God, they were mistaken. 

This seems rather facile.

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Or else God allowed the wrongness and allowed them to pretend it was because of Him, because He knew people, in their carnal state, couldn't be nice.  

What "wrongness" do you have in mind here?

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I mean whatever.  I don't know that we adequately resolve our issues if we continue to promote the very cause of them.  

Very facile.

Thanks,

-Smac

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

Are you suggesting that we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion?  Is that what you are saying? 

Essentially yes.  As it is, since the dawn of time, as far as we can tell, religion has been with us, inspiring us to annihilate, subjugate, or at the very least be suspicious of the other, and defeat those whom God has told us are outside the pale of Hs chosen.  I mean that's the BIble, but basically all religion, particularly the Judeo-Christian and Islamic ones, hurt us today.  Their saving grace is the degree to which they adapt and accept humanism ideals.  

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Advocacy of racial harmony is a "secular" thing?

Not necessarily.  That's not really what I said.  I"m suggesting the principles that opposed religious thinking on this matter were secular.  

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

This seems rather facile.

What "wrongness" do you have in mind here?

Any wrongness advocated by religion, a la their God.  

5 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Very facile.

Thanks,

-Smac

Okie dokes.  

[pogi]

12 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Essentially yes.  As it is, since the dawn of time, as far as we can tell, religion has been with us, inspiring us to annihilate, subjugate, or at the very least be suspicious of the other, and defeat those whom God has told us are outside the pale of Hs chosen.  I mean that's the BIble, but basically all religion, particularly the Judeo-Christian and Islamic ones, hurt us today.  Their saving grace is the degree to which they adapt and accept humanism ideals.  

I wonder how black people would feel about a white guy telling them how to believe.  How would they feel about a white guy telling them their faith is the very reason they are persecuted, and it is therefore their own fault for promoting religion?

Edited June 8, 2020 by pogi

[smac97]

7 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Quote

Advocacy of racial harmony is a "secular" thing?

Not necessarily.  That's not really what I said.  I"m suggesting the principles that opposed religious thinking on this matter were secular.  

You said that "religion has, to some extent, learned to adapt and embrace the secular elements that are forcing our archaic and unhelpful religious notions formerly inspired by God into the dustbin."

Now you are saying that "the principles that opposed religious thinking on this matter were secular."

What "principles" are you referencing here?

What "matter" are you referencing here?

What "religious thinking on this matter" are you referencing here?

7 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Quote

What "wrongness" do you have in mind here?

Any wrongness advocated by religion, a la their God.  

Okay.  What "wrongness advocated by religion" do you have in mind here?  

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

14 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Essentially yes.  As it is, since the dawn of time, as far as we can tell, religion has been with us, inspiring us to annihilate, subjugate, or at the very least be suspicious of the other, and defeat those whom God has told us are outside the pale of Hs chosen.  I mean that's the BIble, but basically all religion, particularly the Judeo-Christian and Islamic ones, hurt us today.  Their saving grace is the degree to which they adapt and accept humanism ideals.  

Marxist humanism?  Secular humanism?

Thanks,

-Smac

[stemelbow]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I wonder how black people would feel about a white guy telling them how to believe.  How would they feel about a white guy telling them their faith is the very reason they are persecuted, and it is therefore their own fault for promoting religion?

huh?  I don't understand the special pleading here nor the emotional appeal.  Are you suggesting that if I disagree with a black man and he feels hurt by that disagreement, I should what?  Forget my feelings and thoughts?  

As per what people choose to believe, I say, let them believe whatever they wish.  And we should all be able to discuss our ideas without shame or retribution.  

[Meadowchik]

I was glad to read about the initiative for education and employment. Of course I would also like to see some real organisation in other ways. There is so much potential to do good.

[stemelbow]

6 minutes ago, smac97 said:

You said that "religion has, to some extent, learned to adapt and embrace the secular elements that are forcing our archaic and unhelpful religious notions formerly inspired by God into the dustbin."

Now you are saying that "the principles that opposed religious thinking on this matter were secular."

What "principles" are you referencing here?

What "matter" are you referencing here?

The principles of the Enlightenment.  I encourage you to read Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker.  It could prove a useful start.  

6 minutes ago, smac97 said:

What "religious thinking on this matter" are you referencing here?

Before the Church ever was, the Christian west readily embraced the racist teaching of those from Africa being cursed by God.  

6 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Okay.  What "wrongness advocated by religion" do you have in mind here?  

Thanks,

-Smac

Any wrongness advocated by religion, a la their God.  

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

The principles of the Enlightenment.  I encourage you to read Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker.  It could prove a useful start.  

Before the Church ever was, the Christian west readily embraced the racist teaching of those from Africa being cursed by God.  

Any wrongness advocated by religion, a la their God.  

Not sure why you are being so vague and evasive.  I'll leave you to it, though.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Amulek]

18 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

25 minutes ago, pogi said:

Are you suggesting that we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion?  Is that what you are saying? 

Essentially yes.  As it is, since the dawn of time, as far as we can tell, religion has been with us, inspiring us to annihilate, subjugate, or at the very least be suspicious of the other, and defeat those whom God has told us are outside the pale of Hs chosen.  I mean that's the BIble, but basically all religion, particularly the Judeo-Christian and Islamic ones, hurt us today. 

I hate to break it to you, but this is sort of the outdated mantra of the so-called new atheists - the notion that, but for religion, all of mankind would have just been sitting around the campfire together for centuries now singing Kumbaya* and getting along splendidly; I"m sorry, but the whole notion is just laughably juvenile.

What on earth makes you think that ethnic tribalism goes away just because you remove religion? Have you got any evidence showing that to be the case?

 

*Though, obviously, if there were no religion in the first place then there probably wouldn't by a Kumbaya song to sing either.  

 

[pogi]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

huh?  I don't understand the special pleading here nor the emotional appeal.  Are you suggesting that if I disagree with a black man and he feels hurt by that disagreement, I should what?  Forget my feelings and thoughts?  

As per what people choose to believe, I say, let them believe whatever they wish.  And we should all be able to discuss our ideas without shame or retribution.  

I am suggesting that it is ludicrous to suggest that minorities are somehow responsible for racism and are contributing to it because of their faith.  That is the only conclusion one could make from your statement.   I am cool with discussing ideas without shame or retribution.  No shame or retribution here, just pointing out a bad idea.  

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am suggesting that it is ludicrous to suggest that minorities are somehow responsible for racism and are contributing to it because of their faith.  That is the only conclusion one could make from your statement.   I am cool with discussing ideas without shame or retribution.  No shame or retribution here, just pointing out a bad idea.  

That's not what I'm suggesting.  

 

Amulek,

Quote

What on earth makes you think that ethnic tribalism goes away just because you remove religion? Have you got any evidence showing that to be the case?

I don't think that.  Why do you think I think that?  

Edited June 8, 2020 by stemelbow

[pogi]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

That's not what I'm suggesting.  

But that is the only rational conclusion one can come to.  You did suggest that "we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion", therefore those who promote religion are responsible for sustaining racism.  There is no other conclusion one can come to. 

[rockpond]

President Nelson writes:  "We likewise call on government, business, and educational leaders at every level to review processes, laws, and organizational attitudes regarding racism and root them out once and for all."

I wish he had included religious leaders in that list and then sought to follow his own advice.  As written, this statement rings hollow to me.

[stemelbow]

11 minutes ago, pogi said:

But that is the only rational conclusion one can come to.  You did suggest that "we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion", therefore those who promote religion are responsible for sustaining racism.  There is no other conclusion one can come to. 

I know my conclusions and it appears you do not.  i'm pointing out that at the heart of our problem as it pertains to race in this country is religion--historically religion was the great purveyor of racial prejudice.  I do not suggest someone's faith and their support of their religion is today the cause of racism, nor do I suggest their faith as it pertains to their religion is contributing to racism.  I do maintain that we need to deal with the problems brought on by religion in order to really confront our problem.    

[Tacenda]

Just now, stemelbow said:

I know my conclusions and it appears you do not.  i'm pointing out that at the heart of our problem as it pertains to race in this country is religion--historically religion was the great purveyor of racial prejudice.  I do not suggest someone's faith and their support of their religion is today the cause of racism, nor do I suggest their faith as it pertains to their religion is contributing to racism.  I do maintain that we need to deal with the problems brought on by religion in order to really confront our problem.    

Dang bible or scripture in LDS church and elsewhere. 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Dang bible or scripture in LDS church and elsewhere. 

That whole “love one another”.  “Mourn with those who mourn.”  Sheesh, can’t understand why people don’t just dump it. 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Calm

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

That whole “love one another”.  “Mourn with those who mourn.”  Sheesh, can’t understand why people don’t just dump it. 

Any non believer, and lets face it most nonbelievers love one another and mourn with those that mourn.  Why does anyone need the Bible to know and accept those simple principles?  They knew to love another and mourn with others long before Jesus came preaching.  Long before some anonymous guy attempted to write Jesus' Aramaic words into greek long after Jesus lived.  

[pogi]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

I do not suggest someone's faith and their support of their religion is today the cause of racism, nor do I suggest their faith as it pertains to their religion is contributing to racism. 

That is very different from saying: "we can’t adequately resolve racism if we continue to promote religion", which I was responding to.  Maybe you were painting with too wide a brush?

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

I do maintain that we need to deal with the problems brought on by religion in order to really confront our problem.    

Again, that is a broad brush.  What universal and systemic problem in religion do we need "deal with" before we can "really confront our problem" of racism? 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Any non believer, and lets face it most nonbelievers love one another and mourn with those that mourn.  Why does anyone need the Bible to know and accept those simple principles?  They knew to love another and mourn with others long before Jesus came preaching.  Long before some anonymous guy attempted to write Jesus' Aramaic words into greek long after Jesus lived.  

“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them..."

Love your enemy?  Serve those that despitefully use you and curse you?  Pray for them that hate you?  Turn the other cheek?  Forgive?  Feed the hungry?  The greatest among you will be your servant?  I think all humans intrinsically love, but Christ took it to a whole higher level that defies the ways of man.