Sunday, March 26, 1820 - Date of First Vision?

[Calm]

6 hours ago, marineland said:

Why do we know the exact date of Smith's birth but not the exact date of the vision?

They probably recorded that in the family bible as was the custom of the day. The entire family would also know of the experience when it happened as opposed to one kid.  But it is not uncommon to have uncertain birth dates for that time period and earlier.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Calm

[marineland]

5 hours ago, InCognitus said:

Civil jurisdictions require certification of births, marriages, and deaths.  This has been programmed into our thinking for centuries.  But can you name one civil jurisdiction that requires a certificate of heavenly visitations?

I don't believe a claim to a heavenly visit requires a record in a civil jurisdiction like someone's birth.
But you figure that since a year and a season is mentioned and recorded in LDS history,  a combination
of the unnamed month, day of the month, or even the specific day of the week leaves us with a mystery
that creates speculation.

Maybe Smith felt it was a sacred secret to only mention a general time frame without being more specific.

Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1916.  But to be that specific, you need to know the month. 
And to know the month, means you need to know the day, otherwise you end up in a different month; and
possibly in a different year.

[InCognitus]

1 minute ago, marineland said:

I don't believe a claim to a heavenly visit requires a record in a civil jurisdiction like someone's birth.
But you figure that since a year and a season is mentioned and recorded in LDS history,  a combination
of the unnamed month, day of the month, or even the specific day of the week leaves us with a mystery
that creates speculation.

Maybe Smith felt it was a sacred secret to only mention a general time frame without being more specific.

Jehovah's Witnesses claim Jesus returned in 1916.  But to be that specific, you need to know the month. 
And to know the month, means you need to know the day, otherwise you end up in a different month; and
possibly in a different year.

I think it's something way more mundane and human than a desire to keep something sacred secret.  I think it comes down to this:  In looking back on it, he didn't remember the exact date.

I kept a journal while I was on my mission.  I can look up the dates of events that happened on my mission because I kept a journal, and only because I kept a journal.  I wish I had kept up that habit and continued keeping a journal regularly after my mission.  Several years after my mission I had a very eventful spiritual experience.  It happened to me sometime in 1992.  I don't remember the exact date.  I'm not even positive of the exact month.  But I'm pretty sure of the year because of my job situation at the time (it was related to my job) and I know the make and year of the vehicle I was driving so I can pinpoint the time period.  But because I wasn't keeping a journal at the time the exact date is lost to me.  But the fact that I can't remember the exact date doesn't change the fact that it happened.  I recounted the experience to several other people (mostly family members) shortly after the event, and I spoke about the event to the elders quorum during a quorum testimony meeting one time.  And later on I wrote down the experience.  And I've recounted the event to my children.  But I still don't remember the exact date that it happened.

Keeping a journal isn't something that Joseph Smith ever did much until the church was organized, when section 21 of the Doctrine and Covenants was given on April 6, 1830.  That section opens up with the commandment from the Lord:  "Behold, there shall be a record kept among you".  

[theplains]

12 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I think it's something way more mundane and human than a desire to keep something sacred secret.  I think it comes down to this:  In looking back on it, he didn't remember the exact date.

I concur.  Maybe he wrote down the vision account many years afterwards and just did not recall
the day, the month, or the day of the week.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, theplains said:

I concur.  Maybe he wrote down the vision account many years afterwards and just did not recall
the day, the month, or the day of the week.

Plains, do you believe the vision took place?

[theplains]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Plains, do you believe the vision took place?

I believe he had some form of spiritual experience, but I don't believe that he encountered a Jesus 
who told him "their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt."

[Whiskeypete]

I've always been partial to the idea that the time between the first vision and the appearance of Moroni was one of the 1,260 day periods that are so symbolic in the scriptures:

These time periods occur eight times in scripture:

• Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
• Daniel 9:27, "half one set of seven".
• Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
• Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
• Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
• Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
• Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
• Revelation 13:5, "42 months".

If you count back 1,260 days from 21 September 1823, you get Sunday, 9 April, 1820. 

[Tacenda]

21 minutes ago, theplains said:

I believe he had some form of spiritual experience, but I don't believe that he encountered a Jesus 
who told him "their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt."

I'm sticking with his hand written vision. https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-circa-summer-1832/6 It is the rough draft to the others, but to me, the most raw and true. 

Joseph was surrounded by others that had visions as well. https://www.nonegw.org/egw32.shtml

Edited March 27, 2020 by Tacenda

[Calm]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

I believe he had some form of spiritual experience, but I don't believe that he encountered a Jesus 
who told him "their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt."

Thank you for the explaining. 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 3/22/2020 at 8:56 PM, smac97 said:

I'm not sure if this has been discussed, but this evening I came across a very interesting video that purports to establish the date of the First Vision as Sunday, March 26, 1820.  ............................... 

If this claim is correct, then the 200th anniversary of the first vision will be this Thursday...............................

I mentioned earlier the synchronism with Passover,  which got some attention during this Conference:

Quote

That would fit rather nicely, if the weather was right in 1820, and you'll recall that the Kirtland Temple dedication also came at Jewish Passover (including the ancient promise that Elijah would come at Passover, which he did).   https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/appearance-elijah-and-moses-kirtland-temple-and-jewish-passover          

Now, Pres Nelson is gonna have us all Fast this Good Friday.  Right in the midst of Passover.

[Thinking]

On 3/26/2020 at 8:20 PM, InCognitus said:

I think it comes down to this:  In looking back on it, he didn't remember the exact date.

This.

Perhaps Nelson will use the solemn assembly to tell the saints to stop their Bednar inspired date speculation.