Abuse Hotline Article

[MiserereNobis]

Hello,

This came across my apple newsfeed this morning. I thought some of you might be interested in discussing it. I'm not posting it as a criticism but as a conversation starter for you. I don't know anything about it and won't have much to say. If true, it seems an odd setup, at least the way the article is presenting it. And it is Vice News, after all, not really the bastion of impartiality, so take that into account.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/d3n73w/duty-to-report-the-mormon-church-has-been-accused-of-using-a-victims-hotline-to-hide-sexual-abuse-claims

The article says that when a bishop calls the hotline the call is transferred to the LDS church's attorneys who can then use attorney-client privilege to keep information from coming out in lawsuits and the like. Maybe those who have used the hotline can share their experiences of who they are talking to and what advice is given?

[Tacenda]

I hope and think that the church will not have a hotline but just tell members that come to the bishop that it's imperative to call the police. I understand that the members most likely know the perp, it even may come from their own family member, but in the end it's all about the children. Utah has an epidemic of sexual child abuse, and we need to weed it out. And be open. Looks like that is what is happening more and more. When you get a statistic like 1 in 3 or 1 in 5. I sub in a school district and when I look amongst the students, I play that statistic in my mind and it is horrifying. https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-has-high-rates-of-child-abuse-sex-abuse-of-children

Quote from article is startling: 

At a conference about preventing child abuse, it was reported that Utah ranks eighth in child abuse and first in sex abuse rates of children.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

Church responded here:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900069024/latter-day-saint-spokesman-denounces-news-story-about-churchs-sexual-abuse-response.html

[changed]

Here are a few more links:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2018/05/31/read-the-lds-churchs-presentation-on-when-clergy-should-report-child-abuse/?fbclid=IwAR3usHcOB2jvrQXAvrfxD7QavcxUQSZkNOmUdzoD1BInWBIghBUsj2_G0Po

and then there is.... your temple videos, made by...

https://kutv.com/news/local/full-interview-man-says-he-was-molested-by-lds-temple-video-director-sundance-co-founder?jwsource=fb&fbclid=IwAR2qUacG2WKDlYBoHCEbDsGChUgoMY4SnOJBdphxguHVBvx8U22Eo7pw3Vo

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/movies/sundance-founder-guilty-abuse.html?fbclid=IwAR2cZqD8l5LskK_svA0s26MCZ715fQA-ciTwv78tKr_RvQMMmP9ByhnZKpw

 

and then there is...

 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by changed

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

The article says that when a bishop calls the hotline the call is transferred to the LDS church's attorneys who can then use attorney-client privilege to keep information from coming out in lawsuits and the like. Maybe those who have used the hotline can share their experiences of who they are talking to and what advice is given?

They first talk to an LDS Family Services person, then they are switched to a lawyer if there are possible legal implications.  The bishops I know have said the needs and safety of the victims are dealt with first and foremost.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

hope and think that the church will not have a hotline but just tell members that come to the bishop that it's imperative to call the police. 

Quote

If you or someone you know has been abused, seek help immediately from civil authorities, child protective services, or adult protective services. You may also seek help from a victim advocate or medical or counseling professional. These services can help protect you and prevent further abuse.

In addition, the help lines listed below are free and are staffed by people who are trained to help. These resources are not created, maintained, or controlled by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

https://www.lds.org/get-help/abuse

Not all countries' police treat abuse victims well.  And not all abuse victims are helped by going to the police immediately.  It is the victims or their adult caregivers who need to be the ones who make that decision, not bishops or branch presidents.  I agree the decision should have nothing to do with the position it puts the Church in.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I hope and think that the church will not have a hotline but just tell members that come to the bishop that it's imperative to call the police. ..................................

That is precisely what the Church did in the case:

Quote

[Hawkins] pointed to the example of a victim's mother who told Vice that when she couldn't reach the bishop about Jensen's abuse, she called police.

Hawkins said she testified differently in court, that when she couldn't reach her congregation's bishop, she instead called his first counselor in the bishopric.

"She testified in court," Hawkins said, "that when she reported the abuse to him, he told her, 'this is a crime,' and provided her with the phone number so that she could call the police. The church leader then called the church help line, and the church then called the police to make sure a report had been made."

Hawkins said that was the most egregious fact withheld in the story. He also said the case is a positive example of the church's local leaders correctly using its hotline system and generating a criminal report.  https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900069024/latter-day-saint-spokesman-denounces-news-story-about-churchs-sexual-abuse-response.html .

Isn't this what we want Church leaders to do, Tacenda?  Even when LDS leaders do the right thing, they get lied about.  You can't win for losing.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

https://www.lds.org/get-help/abuse

Not all countries' police treat abuse victims well.  And not all abuse victims are helped by going to the police immediately.  It is the victims or their adult caregivers who need to be the ones who make that decision, not bishops or branch presidents.  I agree the decision should have nothing to do with the position it puts the Church in.

When local clergy are mandated by law to report the crime to law enforcement, they actually have no choice in the matter.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

At a conference about preventing child abuse, it was reported that Utah ranks eighth in child abuse and first in sex abuse rates of children

That is a misrepresentation, I believe.  Those are reported cases, which may or may not directly relate to rates of abuse (high reporting might result in higher ranking without more cases or there could be even a higher rate of abuse).

[MiserereNobis]

2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

When local clergy are mandated by law to report the crime to law enforcement, they actually have no choice in the matter.

In the Catholic Church, if they break the confessional seal, they are automatically excommunicated. This excommunication can only be lifted by the Pope. It is expected that the priest will suffer anything, including death, rather than violate the confessional.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

When local clergy are mandated by law to report the crime to law enforcement, they actually have no choice in the matter.

Of course.  Unfortunately this may stop some victims from seeking help.

-----

For those interested, this page has training videos for church leaders as well as other resources:

https://www.lds.org/get-help/abuse/how-to-help?lang=eng

[gurn]

Unfortunately, I had to use the hotline 3 or 4 times when I served as a branch president. I found the attorneys very helpful in making sure that the victims would be protected, and that I would be protected since we are a mandatory report state. This was also 20 years ago, so this effort to protect victims isn't a recent occurrence from my prospective. 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

In the Catholic Church, if they break the confessional seal, they are automatically excommunicated. This excommunication can only be lifted by the Pope. It is expected that the priest will suffer anything, including death, rather than violate the confessional.

What is the current status of U.S. law on priest-penitent confidentiality versus mandated reporting?  Both have extraordinary authority behind them.  Has the Supreme Court ruled?

[Calm]

Found this...there is a wiki for practically everything it seems:

http://defensewiki.ibj.org/index.php/Priest-Penitent_Privilege#Priest-Penitent_Privilege_in_Federal_Court

[Tacenda]

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/286-abducted-in-plain-sight-the-broberg-women-speak-out/ Recently listened to this podcast, a story I've been following and that has been in the news for awhile now.

I've asked before on this board, so I'll try once more. Why was this man allowed to serve in the temple with that kind of past? When listening to this podcast they mention what I already knew, that Robert Berchtold was allowed to serve in the temple even after being convicted of raping children. Six women later came forward after Jan, but he only spent a year in prison for one of the women.  

And don't tell me he was fully repentative especially when around 2004 he took a gun to a women's conference Jan Broberg was speaking in, and ran over someone in the parking lot when they wouldn't let him in to pass out fliers, probably full of lies trying to deny wrongdoing. He should have been in prison all those years beforehand not serving several years in the temple. How could the leaders give him a recommend furthering his chances of raping again.

I ask again and again, but all I hear is chirping. Does or did the church do enough? 

Here's another podcast I've yet to listen to, don't know if I dare.  https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/288-boys-scouts-the-lds-church-and-sexual-predators-tim-kosnoff/

 

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Why was this man allowed to serve in the temple with that kind of past?

How in the world do you expect anyone here to answer?  No one here appears to be his leaders who made the decision.

[JulieM]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/286-abducted-in-plain-sight-the-broberg-women-speak-out/ Recently listened to this podcast, a story I've been following and that has been in the news for awhile now.

I've asked before on this board, so I'll try once more. Why was this man allowed to serve in the temple with that kind of past? When listening to this podcast they mention what I already knew, that Robert Berchtold was allowed to serve in the temple even after being convicted of raping children. Six women later came forward after Jan, but he only spent a year in prison for one of the women.  

And don't tell me he was fully repentative especially when around 2004 he took a gun to a women's conference Jan Broberg was speaking in, and ran over someone in the parking lot when they wouldn't let him in to pass out fliers, probably full of lies trying to deny wrongdoing. He should have been in prison all those years beforehand not serving several years in the temple. How could the leaders give him a recommend furthering his chances of raping again.

I ask again and again, but all I hear is chirping. Does or did the church do enough? 

Here's another podcast I've yet to listen to, don't know if I dare.  https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/288-boys-scouts-the-lds-church-and-sexual-predators-tim-kosnoff/

 

I agree.  That whole case is bizarre.  I think he was also called to serve in a bishopric after he served a year in prison for raping another child.

He had to have been incredibly charismatic and good at his deception.  Too bad he had access to other youth and children with his past record!

[Wade Englund]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I ask again and again, but all I hear is chirping. Does or did the church do enough? 

14 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I agree.  That whole case is bizarre.  I think he was also called to serve in a bishopric after he served a year in prison for raping another child.

He had to have been incredibly charismatic and good at his deception.  Too bad he had access to other youth and children with his past record!

Why wait for an answer? How about just getting on with  lynching the Brethren?  Mobs rule--particularly online ones!

Thanks,  -Wade Englund-

Edited May 5, 2019 by Wade Englund

[MustardSeed]

If the people who assigned him to work at the temple or in bishopric were unaware of his offenses, then it makes sense.  We only know what we know. 

He should have been in jail.  Then again, the real travesty here is that the mother AND father had sex with their daughters abductor and molester.  I mean, really, if we are gonna look at an institution and cry “whack job” let’s look first at this mental family. 

[JulieM]

7 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

If the people who assigned him to work at the temple or in bishopric were unaware of his offenses, then it makes sense.  We only know what we know. 

He should have been in jail.  Then again, the real travesty here is that the mother AND father had sex with their daughters abductor and molester.  I mean, really, if we are gonna look at an institution and cry “whack job” let’s look first at this mental family. 

It should have been noted on his church record (or passed on by leaders from wards to new wards), I would think.  Something that severe and he committed felonies so I think he may have been excommunicated (or should have been but maybe he wasn’t?).

He did serve prison time and was convicted of raping a child, iirc.

But I agree that the parents were crazy too, imo!!!  That doesn’t change the fact that this man should not have been put in a bishopric where he had one on one interviews with youth or children.  Things slip through the cracks though and this seems to have happened here.

Edited May 5, 2019 by JulieM

[ALarson]

9 hours ago, Wade Englund said:

Why wait for an answer? How about just getting on with  lynching the Brethren?  Mobs rule--particularly online ones!

These type of responses are not helpful when discussing this topic.  Mistakes have been made and we should learn from them (and I believe the leaders have tried to do this and things are improved....but still could be better, IMO).

Here's some more information on this case

Berchtold kidnapped this young girl (twice, I believe).  He was sentenced to a mental hospital.  Then he went on to rape another chid (after he was released from the mental facility) and served prison time for this.

The details are infuriating, and it's almost impossible to comprehend how Berchtold didn't receive a substantial prison sentence (he spent less than a month in jail before he was transferred to a mental hospital for approximately six months; later, he spent one year in prison after pleading guilty to raping another child).

HTTP://www.refinery29.com/en-us/robert-berchtol-now-abducted-in-plain-sight

This man went on to get married in the temple after this and served 7 years as a temple ordinance worker (in Las Vegas) and served in a Bishopric.

He ended up committing suicide (while awaiting to be sentenced after another conviction for what I believe was stalking Jan  Broberg Felt even years later).

It's a very disturbing story and I can't understand why church leaders didn't do more to protect this little girl.  Of course, her parents should have been there to protect her as well.  But all of them were members of the same ward.

Quote

Six women have since contacted Jan to say they, too, were molested by Berchtold. Berchtold was ultimately found guilty of the rape of one of those children and spent one year in jail.

 

So, I wouldn't be posting such a flippant post regarding this case, Wade.  Granted this was years ago and abuse cases were not handled as well by any organization or leaders as they are today.  Great strides have been made.  But this case did happen and he should not have been called into a Bishopric with the past abuse he'd committed and his past prison and mental health sentences.

There's no reason not to discuss past mistakes so we can learn from them and make sure they never happen again.

Edited May 5, 2019 by ALarson

[ALarson]

9 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

If the people who assigned him to work at the temple or in bishopric were unaware of his offenses, then it makes sense.  We only know what we know. 

He should have been in jail.  Then again, the real travesty here is that the mother AND father had sex with their daughters abductor and molester.  I mean, really, if we are gonna look at an institution and cry “whack job” let’s look first at this mental family. 

I disagree that was "the real travesty".  It was a horrible part of the story, but it in no way compares to what Berchtold did to his victims.  The parents were consenting adults and she was just a child.  And, Jan was not his only victim....he went on to rape and abuse other children.  THAT is the real travesty, IMO.

There were many involved who should have protected her.  

And if any of that could have been avoided by him not being allowed to be alone with children, then there were serious mistakes made by the church leaders.  It's a case we should all study and learn from.

Edited May 5, 2019 by ALarson

[ALarson]

18 hours ago, changed said:

Here are a few more links:

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2018/05/31/read-the-lds-churchs-presentation-on-when-clergy-should-report-child-abuse/?fbclid=IwAR3usHcOB2jvrQXAvrfxD7QavcxUQSZkNOmUdzoD1BInWBIghBUsj2_G0Po

and then there is.... your temple videos, made by...

https://kutv.com/news/local/full-interview-man-says-he-was-molested-by-lds-temple-video-director-sundance-co-founder?jwsource=fb&fbclid=IwAR2qUacG2WKDlYBoHCEbDsGChUgoMY4SnOJBdphxguHVBvx8U22Eo7pw3Vo

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/movies/sundance-founder-guilty-abuse.html?fbclid=IwAR2cZqD8l5LskK_svA0s26MCZ715fQA-ciTwv78tKr_RvQMMmP9ByhnZKpw

 

and then there is...

 

 

And another one recently:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900068264/jury-finds-ex-bishop-guilty-of-trying-to-sexually-abuse-teenage-boy.html

 

And this one where the man was serving as the Bishop at the time of his arrest:

https://kutv.com/news/local/man-arrested-in-utah-undercover-human-trafficking-investigation-is-an-lds-bishop

 

I believe the church leaders are paying attention to this topic and are trying to make changes.  I personally believe there should be no more behind closed door interviews without at least two adults being present.  I believe that would help avoid a lot of what took place in different cases of abuse.

Of course this is not just a Mormon church problem.  Everyone need to educate themselves and do all they can to prevent putting anyone in harm's way or protecting the abuser rather than the abused..

Edited May 5, 2019 by ALarson

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, ALarson said:

I disagree that was "the real travesty".  It was a horrible part of the story, but it in no way compares to what Berchtold did to his victims.  The parents were consenting adults and she was just a child.  And, Jan was not his only victim....he went on to rape and abuse other children.  THAT is the real travesty, IMO.

There were many involved who should have protected her.  

And if any of that could have been avoided by him not being allowed to be alone with children, then there were serious mistakes made by the church leaders.  It's a case we should all study and learn from.

Yes of course.  

I should have said “the most unbelievable” part. Because I can believe, sadly, that people get callings when they are unworthy.  I can believe, sadly, that kids get abused.  What I cannot believe, is that these parents were so influenced.  

Who was this guy, who was so charming that he convinced so many people that he was good, attractive, wonderful, and righteous? 

I tend to sniff these out, personally. Narcs tend to nauseate me.  I sound above it all, don’t I? Why could apparently no one else see? 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, ALarson said:

And another one recently:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900068264/jury-finds-ex-bishop-guilty-of-trying-to-sexually-abuse-teenage-boy.html

 

And this one where the man was serving as the Bishop at the time of his arrest:

https://kutv.com/news/local/man-arrested-in-utah-undercover-human-trafficking-investigation-is-an-lds-bishop

 

I believe the church leaders are paying attention to this topic and are trying to make changes.  I personally believe there should be no more behind closed door interviews without at least two adults being present.  I believe that would help avoid a lot of what took place in different cases of abuse.

Of course this is not just a Mormon church problem.  Everyone need to educate themselves and do all they can to prevent putting anyone in harm's way or protecting the abuser rather than the abused..

The mother lode is the BSA, when details come out about that, I think the church will have some huge problems. But in the end it's for the prevention of these abuses, time to clean house and put the humans first before the reputation of institutions.