changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, ALarson said: protecting the abuser rather than the abused.. just an experiment - go to: https://addictionrecovery.churchofjesuschrist.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng then post how many support groups there are for abusers and addicts, vs. how many support groups there are for friends and family. In my area, there are 9 groups to support abusers, and only 3 groups to support victims. I never attended a group as the few groups in my area met while I was at work, and were too far away. I suggested to our stake president that if they were interested in helping victims (more than abusers - which is what is happening right now), they would ask anyone showing up to the addicts group to voluntarily release the info of those they had hurt in any way, so that the stake could reach out to victims. Our stake refused to incorporate this into the meetings. Their #1 goal is to make abusers feel supported and good about themselves, NOT to reach out and help victims at all. The church supports abusers. They do NOT support victims. Edited May 5, 2019 by changed
Wade Englund Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 4 hours ago, ALarson said: These type of responses are not helpful when discussing this topic. I was responding to a response that wasn't helpful , and hinted at why it wasn't helpful. Doing so, I believe, is helpful. But, to each their own. Thanks, -Wade Englund-
MustardSeed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 10 minutes ago, changed said: just an experiment - go to: https://addictionrecovery.churchofjesuschrist.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng then post how many support groups there are for abusers and addicts, vs. how many support groups there are for friends and family. In my area, there are 9 groups to support abusers, and only 3 groups to support victims. I never attended a group as the few groups in my area met while I was at work, and were too far away. I suggested to our stake president that if they were interested in helping victims (more than abusers - which is what is happening right now), they would ask anyone showing up to the addicts group to voluntarily release the info of those they had hurt in any way, so that the stake could reach out to victims. Our stake refused to incorporate this into the meetings. Their #1 goal is to make abusers feel supported and good about themselves, NOT to reach out and help victims at all. The church supports abusers. They do NOT support victims. By definition the church exists for the sinner. 2
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 Concern for victim? Or concern for church? Pretty clear who they care about... personal information removed "High Risk" should be defined as the physical and emotional health of the victim, NOT how the abuse was tied to the church.
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: By definition the church exists for the sinner. The #1 goal should be to call the sinner to repentance NOT enable the sins to continue. 1
ALarson Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: By definition the church exists for the sinner. I agree and we are all sinners. However, I have seen over and over again where the abuser's feelings, privacy, etc. have taken precedence over concerns for the abused. I do believe this is changing, but it should have never happened, IMO. We should care about the abuser....want to get him help....and encourage him to repent.....but not at the expense of not protecting other potential victims just because we don't want to embarrass the abuser or the church. And their feelings and healing should never come before getting help for the victim. Too many times I've seen the abuser called in, watched him (or her) weep and claim "it was only one slip and I'll never do it again"....then the Bishop works with them and keeps it quiet. Then I've seen where so many times this abuser has victimized other children and youth (or women or adults). That's what needs to end. Edited May 5, 2019 by ALarson 3
Popular Post webbles Posted May 5, 2019 Popular Post Posted May 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, changed said: just an experiment - go to: https://addictionrecovery.churchofjesuschrist.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng then post how many support groups there are for abusers and addicts, vs. how many support groups there are for friends and family. In my area, there are 9 groups to support abusers, and only 3 groups to support victims. I never attended a group as the few groups in my area met while I was at work, and were too far away. I suggested to our stake president that if they were interested in helping victims (more than abusers - which is what is happening right now), they would ask anyone showing up to the addicts group to voluntarily release the info of those they had hurt in any way, so that the stake could reach out to victims. Our stake refused to incorporate this into the meetings. Their #1 goal is to make abusers feel supported and good about themselves, NOT to reach out and help victims at all. The church supports abusers. They do NOT support victims. The support groups actually already include that. It is step 8 and 9 of the 12 step process. And they do try and get more people to the support groups. We just recently had a second hour meeting in our ward where they talked about the support groups. They talked about both the abusers group and the friends/family group. They encouraged people to go to either if needed. So, I would seriously disagree with your statement that the church doesn't support victims. 6
JulieM Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, webbles said: So, I would seriously disagree with your statement that the church doesn't support victims. I see the leaders trying to support both the victims and the perpetrator or abuser. But, the victim should always come first and their feelings and health should always trump any embarrassment to the abuser or to the church. That’s what needs to change and hopefully it will and is. Edited May 5, 2019 by JulieM
pogi Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 39 minutes ago, changed said: just an experiment - go to: https://addictionrecovery.churchofjesuschrist.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng then post how many support groups there are for abusers and addicts, vs. how many support groups there are for friends and family. In my area, there are 9 groups to support abusers, and only 3 groups to support victims. First, there is no such thing as support groups "for abusers". These support groups are for addiction (a disease) recovery, and not to support or "enable" (give me a break!) abuse. It's a matter of supply and demand. If there was more demand for family support groups, there would be more supply. 47 minutes ago, changed said: The church supports abusers. They do NOT support victims. The church does not support abuse. It supports addicts who are seeking healing and reconciliation. Is that so wrong? 3
MustardSeed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 Church pays a lot of money to individual therapists so that victims can find peace. I don’t know many churches that do that.
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Church pays a lot of money to individual therapists so that victims can find peace. I don’t know many churches that do that. Not for me or my kids they didn't. Avoid, belittle, accuse victims- had to go everything alone - went through courts alone. 1
MustardSeed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, changed said: Not for me or my kids they didn't. Avoid, belittle, accuse victims- had to go everything alone - went through courts alone. I am so sad that you walked that road alone. I’ve seen time and again in and out of the church people handling things like this in a hurtful way. Even those who are trained to help sometimes miss the mark. Sexual abuse is so sinnister and it’s effects bleed out far beyond the abuse itself. 1
MustardSeed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, JulieM said: I see the leaders trying to support both the victims and the perpetrator or abuser. But, the victim should always come first and their feelings and health should always trump any embarrassment to the abuser or to the church. That’s what needs to change and hopefully it will and is. Leaders should never support both. One for one, another for the other.
JulieM Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Leaders should never support both. Oh, I do feel they can love and support both (as far as getting them help and I believe reporting the abuser to authorities can help them not repeat abuse). I just firmly believe that the abused’s needs and healing always comes before that of the person who chose to abuse another. Edited May 5, 2019 by JulieM 1
MustardSeed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 1 minute ago, JulieM said: Oh, I do feel they can love and support both (as far as getting them help and I believe reporting the abuser to authorities can help them not repeat abuse). I just firmly believe that the abused’s needs and healing always comes before that of the person who chose to abuse another. I think it’s tough for a survivor to walk into an office and confide feelings knowing that the offender is doing the same. I agree compassion and “support” can come from the same place but regular spiritual guidance meetings should be done by separate leaders for the benefit of the abused. Trained professionals find it hard enough to maintain proper boundaries and alliances. 2
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 Mo one has responded - click the link - how many support groups for adicts are there in your area, and how many groups are there for victims? I guess I can do this myself... just start typing in different zip codes.
Tacenda Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, changed said: Mo one has responded - click the link - how many support groups for adicts are there in your area, and how many groups are there for victims? I guess I can do this myself... just start typing in different zip codes. https://addictionrecovery.churchofjesuschrist.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng This is the result of my search, not one support group for survivors of sexual abuse, not one. But plenty for porn addiction. Yep, Houston we have a problem. ETA: Just saw this page, but doesn't look to be the extent of support for the addicted: https://www.lds.org/get-help/abuse/where-can-i-turn-for-support?lang=eng Also, when I clicked support for the victim, it sends me to my log info for members and then I got the message Access Denied. And then when I looked for support again on the help/abuse link, it lists several non LDS resources. But holy cow, plenty of support groups for addictions. But come to think of it, maybe an abuse survivor wouldn't want to speak amongst a group of people. So there is that. ETA again! : Or not, looks like there are plenty of support groups out there for a cost no less, most likely:https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/groups/sexual-abuse?search=84041 Oops, I need to c/p: Layton #16 – General Addiction UNITED STATES 1.4 mi / 2.3 km Friday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Church is located at 590 West Antelope Dr. Meet in the Relief Society room.Show Details Layton #11 – General Addiction Layton, UT 84041 1.5 mi / 2.3 km Monday 12:00 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Meeting is held at the church located on 590 West 2000 NorthShow Details CLEARFIELD #17 – General Addiction Clearfield, UT 84015 1.7 mi / 2.8 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Church is located on 315 E. 2200 S. use the North EntranceShow Details CLEARFIELD #23 YSA MEN – Pornography Addiction Clearfield, UT 84015 2.2 mi / 3.5 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –YSA (Men Only) –English Clearfield High School Seminary BuildingShow Details CLEARFIELD #24 – Pornography Addiction Clearfield, UT 84015 2.2 mi / 3.5 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Clearfield HS Seminary - Also separate group for wife's/family held at same time in different roomShow Details CLEARFIELD #21 Women – Pornography Addiction Clearfield, UT 84015 2.4 mi / 3.9 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Women Only –English North Davis Jr High School Seminary Building.Show Details Layton #13 -ARP – General Addiction Layton UT 84040-4556 2.6 mi / 4.2 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Use entrance on the North/East side of the church building.Show Details Layton #15 – General Addiction Layton Utah 84040-4556 2.6 mi / 4.2 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Syracuse #22-PASG – Pornography Addiction Syracuse Utah 84075-8667 3.7 mi / 6.0 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Show Details Kaysville #21 - Men – Pornography Addiction Kaysville Utah 84037 4.0 mi / 6.5 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Kaysville Jr High Seminary Building 390 S 225 E Kaysville, Utah 84037Show Details Kaysville #14-ARP – General Addiction Kaysville, Utah 84037 4.3 mi / 7.0 km Saturday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Institute Building located on the North end of DATC campus - 605 E DATC Dr. Google map it is 560 E 3Show Details Kaysville #23 - Men Ages18-30 – Pornography Addiction Kaysville, Utah 84037 4.3 mi / 7.0 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Institute Building located on the North end of DATC campus - 605 E DATC Dr. Google map it is 560 E 3Show Details Kaysville #12-ARP group – General Addiction Kaysville, UT 84037 4.3 mi / 7.0 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Institute Building is on the North end of DATC campus - 605 East DATC Dr.-Google map 560 E 300 S.Show Details West Point #12 – General Addiction West Point, UT 84015 5.9 mi / 9.4 km Wednesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Farmington #13 – General Addiction Farmington, UT, 84025 6.6 mi / 10.6 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Enter on the East side of the church building..Show Details General Addiction Bonneville High Seminary – General Addiction Washington Terrace, UT 84405 7.3 mi / 11.8 km Thursday 7:30 pm Mtn –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Roy 1 Pornography & Sexual Addictions – Pornography Addiction Roy,UT 84067 7.7 mi / 12.3 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Spouse and Family Support is held at the same time in a separate roomShow Details General Addiction Ogden YSA 1st Stake – General Addiction Ogden,UT 7.9 mi / 12.7 km Wednesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Roy 3 General Addiction – General Addiction UNITED STATES 8.3 mi / 13.4 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction 3755 Porter Ave – General Addiction Ogden Utah 84403-1711 8.6 mi / 13.8 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction, Rocky Mtn Jr High Seminary – General Addiction West Haven, UT 84401 8.9 mi / 14.4 km Wednesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction, Ogden High Seminary – General Addiction Ogden, UT 84403 10.1 mi / 16.3 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Ogden High Seminary BldgShow Details General Addiction, 3271 W 2550 South, Ogden – General Addiction UNITED STATES 10.9 mi / 17.5 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction, 21st & Jefferson – General Addiction UNITED STATES 11.0 mi / 17.6 km Tuesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction, 15th & Washington – General Addiction Ogden,UT 84404 11.7 mi / 18.8 km Wednesday 12:00 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Please use South doorsShow Details General Addiction, 15th & Washington – General Addiction Ogden,UT 84404 11.7 mi / 18.8 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Please use South door. Spouse and Family Support Group is held at the same time in separate rmShow Details Centerville #17 – General Addiction Centerville UT 84014 12.2 mi / 19.7 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Bountiful #24 – Pornography Addiction Bountiful Utah 84010-6804 12.9 mi / 20.8 km Wednesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Viewmont HS Seminary - Family & Friends meet at the same time in this building in a different room.Show Details Bountiful #14 ARP – General Addiction Bountiful Utah 84010-4542 13.1 mi / 21.1 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English First Meeting will be Jan. 1st 2015 in the Relief Society RoomShow Details Woods Cross #22 – Pornography Addiction Woods Cross, UT 84087 14.7 mi / 23.7 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Woods Cross HS Seminary-Also separate group for wife's/family held at same time in different room.Show Details Bountiful #16-ARP – General Addiction Bountiful UT 84010-7550 15.2 mi / 24.4 km Wednesday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Bountiful #11-ARP – General Addiction Bountiful UT 84010-8407 16.0 mi / 25.7 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Enter through the Southwest doors of the church building.Show Details Morgan #18 – General Addiction Morgan, UT 84050-9212 16.5 mi / 26.6 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details General Addiction Weber High Seminary – General Addiction Pleasant View, UT 84414 17.3 mi / 27.9 km Sunday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Spouse and Family Support Group is held at same time in separate roomShow Details General Addiction Weber High Seminary – General Addiction Pleasant View,UT 84414 17.3 mi / 27.9 km Thursday 7:30 pm –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Show Details Rose Park Stake Center - Noon – General Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84116-2261 19.9 mi / 32.1 km Saturday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details 5th North Chapel – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84103-1234 20.6 mi / 33.2 km Wednesday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Show Details Emigration Stake Center – General Addiction SALT LAKE CITY UTAH 21.6 mi / 34.8 km Friday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English 70 J Str - Entry to W Parking Lot - Enter SW Door - Up Stairs - Down S Hall to RS Room in SE CornerShow Details Salt Lake 13th Ward - Noon – General Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84102-1104 21.9 mi / 35.2 km Tuesday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction. Enter S Door - Follow Signs.Show Details Salt Lake 13th Ward – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 84102-1104 21.9 mi / 35.2 km Tuesday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Confidential meeting for men struggling with porn / sexual addictions. Enter S Door - Room to Left.Show Details Salt Lake 13th Ward – General Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 84102-1104 21.9 mi / 35.2 km Tuesday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English 2nd Floor SW Corner Room. Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Rio Grande Branch ARP corrections – General Addiction UNITED STATES 22.0 mi / 35.3 km Wednesday 6:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Pioneer Stake Center - Wednesday Noon – General Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84104-2601 22.1 mi / 35.6 km Wednesday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Pioneer Stake Center - Friday Noon – General Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84104-2601 22.1 mi / 35.6 km Friday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Pioneer Stake Center - Monday Noon – General Addiction Salt Lake City UT 84104-2601 22.1 mi / 35.6 km Monday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Deseret Industries - Welfare Square - "NON-PUBLIC" MEETING – General Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84104 22.2 mi / 35.8 km Wednesday 1:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Call for meeting location "NON-PUBLIC" Meeting - For DI Employees ONLYShow Details Liberty - SL Central Meeting - Thu Noon – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84102 22.8 mi / 36.6 km Thursday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Park in SW Lot with Entry off of Lake Str. Enter SW Door of Ward. Look for Room Signs in SW Hallway.Show Details Liberty - SL Central Meeting - Thu 730 PM – General Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84102 22.8 mi / 36.6 km Thursday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Park in NE Lot or on 700 S. Enter NE Side Door. Look for Room Signs in NE Hallway.Show Details Liberty - SL Central Meeting - Mon Noon – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84102 22.8 mi / 36.6 km Monday 12:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Park in SW Lot with Entry off of Lake Str. Enter SW Door of Ward. Look for Room Signs in SW Hallway.Show Details University of Utah - Men's Group – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84112 22.8 mi / 36.7 km Sunday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Ward Bldg on SW Corner of South Campus Dr and Mario Capecchi Dr - Park on and enter from South Side.Show Details Palmer Court Branch ARP corrections – General Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84111 23.0 mi / 37.0 km Tuesday 6:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Enter Suite 103 Middle Area. Confidential meeting for those struggling with any addiction.Show Details Cannon 5th & 9th Chapel – General Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 23.2 mi / 37.3 km Tuesday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Enter E Door - Look for Signs - Meeting in Relief Society RoomShow Details DI 1610 Thurs closed meeting employees only – General Addiction Salt Lake City, Utah, 84104 23.3 mi / 37.5 km Thursday 11:30 am MST –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Employees onlyShow Details DI 1610 Tues CLOSED MEETING employees only – General Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 84104-3821 23.4 mi / 37.6 km Tuesday 11:30 am MST –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Employees onlyShow Details Univ of Utah Sunnyside Ave - Multiple-Wards/Stake Complex – General Addiction SALT LAKE CITY UTAH 23.4 mi / 37.7 km Wednesday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English ALL VISITORS WELCOME! Park SW Lot. Go E Up Steps & Enter South Door on Far W Wing. Left to RS Room.Show Details Monument Park / Princeton - 1-Hour Meeting – Pornography Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 84108-1920 23.8 mi / 38.3 km Saturday 10:00 am Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men Only –English Park in SW Lot - YW Room - Enter Far SE Lower Door - Down the Ramp with White RailingShow Details Waterloo – General Addiction Salt Lake City Utah 84105-2003 24.0 mi / 38.6 km Sunday 7:30 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English Park and Enter North Main Door. Left Down Hall to RS Room on East End.Show Details Deseret Industries - Sugar House - DISCONTINUED TEMPORARILY - "NON-PUBLIC" MEETING – General Addiction Salt Lake City, UT 84106 24.7 mi / 39.7 km Tuesday 2:00 pm Mountain Time –Those who Struggle with Addiction –Men and Women –English ONLY FOR DESERET INDUSTRIES PERSONNEL Deseret Industries - Sugar HouseShow Details Increase Search Distance Cookie Preferences FIND A MEETING | VOLUNTEERS | CHURCH LEADERS | FEEDBACK | HELP Terms of Use (Updated 2018-09-01) Privacy Notice (Updated 2018-09-01) © 2019 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Edited May 5, 2019 by Tacenda
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) It is about a one to three ratio no matter where you go - 3 times more meetings for addicts than for friends/family of addicts (which in many cases constitute those abused by addicts). No support group for victims - the closest thing to a support group for victims is calling the victim a "friend" of an addict.... so, "friends" of addicts are supported in order to better support the addict? It is all about the addict. Edited May 5, 2019 by changed 1
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) ""Abuse Help Line personnel should never advise a priesthood leader to report abuse"" What Clergy Need to Know About Mandatory Reporting Edited May 5, 2019 by changed 1
pogi Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, changed said: Mo one has responded - click the link - how many support groups for adicts are there in your area, and how many groups are there for victims? I guess I can do this myself... just start typing in different zip codes. How many support groups are there for abusers as you claimed? You stated there are more support groups for abusers then there are for victims of abuse. I see zero. There are only support groups for addicts and their families. You can't conclude that they care more about abusers than victims based on this information. Edited May 5, 2019 by pogi 4
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, pogi said: How many support groups are there for abusers as you claimed? You stated there are more support groups for abusers then there are for victims of abuse. I see zero. There are only support groups for addicts and their families. You can't conclude that they care more about abusers than victims based on this information. I conclude it from personal experience - the - accused and in jail now - abusers that I know all attended "addiction" recovery groups... attended these groups for years and years. Show me an example of an abuser who does not identify themselves as a "sex addict". That is the PC name they like to call themsleves - addict - rather than - abuser. It allows them to feel like they are a victim, and not responsible for their actions. I agree - it is a disease, and the addicts/abusers often have no control over themselves. The solution is not to look the other way and hush up and "forgive" them over and over and over again - the solution, sorry, is to lock them away. I have not seen anything that cures them... I have someone in my own fam - put in jail, under house arrest, on the registry list - years and years of jail and therapy - they were suicidal, starved themselves, did everything they could to get rid of it - years and years and years - and guess what? gray old man still has problems. It is like cancer - a physical conditions that s not just magically get prayed away. On another note: Should the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints background check volunteer clergy? Edited May 5, 2019 by changed 1
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 3 hours ago, MustardSeed said: I am so sad that you walked that road alone. I’ve seen time and again in and out of the church people handling things like this in a hurtful way. Even those who are trained to help sometimes miss the mark. Sexual abuse is so sinnister and it’s effects bleed out far beyond the abuse itself. I'm just curious - what constitutes "handling things like this in a hurtful way" to everyone? It has been my experience that those who speak up and try to change the system to prevent future abuse are considered to be "handing things incorrectly", while those who bow their heads, don't say a thing, allow abuse to continue, and just trust the "priesthood" to take care of things (which I have seen first hand leads to prolonged abuse and more abuse) are praised as having faith and handling it correctly... 1
Popular Post pogi Posted May 5, 2019 Popular Post Posted May 5, 2019 11 minutes ago, changed said: I conclude it from personal experience I am sorry that is your experience. I wonder if all victims of abuse feel that the church cares more about the abusers than the victims. I would suggest that your experience is your own and can't be projected onto the church as a whole. I can say that I too am a victim of sexual abuse in childhood. I have felt nothing but unconditional love and support for me through that experience. My experience is very different from your own. 20 minutes ago, changed said: Show me an example of an abuser who does not identify themselves as a "sex addict". That is the PC name they like to call themsleves - addict - rather than - abuser. It allows them to feel like they are a victim, and not responsible for their actions. That may be the case, but not all addicts are abusers. Not even close. The groups are not to support people through abusing others, but to support them through addiction. 21 minutes ago, changed said: I agree - it is a disease, and the addicts/abusers often have no control over themselves. The solution is not to look the other way and hush up and "forgive" them over and over and over again - the solution, sorry, is to lock them away. I have not seen anything that cures them... I disagree. As a recovering addict myself, I can testify that healing is possible. It is possible not to act-out and to find genuine healing and recovery from the traumatic root causes of addiction. There is hope for the addict. The state does not agree with you as far as locking them away forever. If they don't find recovery, they will abuse again when they get out of jail. It is good for them to try and find healing from addiction. I feel confident that there are fewer victims because of the church's program. 6
Calm Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, changed said: ""Abuse Help Line personnel should never advise a priesthood leader to report abuse"" What Clergy Need to Know About Mandatory Reporting Why did you leave off the second statement about who should be the ones giving that advice? The personnel of the hotline are most likely those who are assigned solely to the hotline, Social Services people not likely aware of all the global reporting laws. If laws protect a confession or even a private counseling between victim and clergy, that evidence and anything resulting from it...like an entire investigation...might be thrown out if reported without permission. The legal counsel---the ones who should be offering legal advice---are the ones who would know the laws, they work for the law firm, not the hotline. Edited May 5, 2019 by Calm
changed Posted May 5, 2019 Posted May 5, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, pogi said: I am sorry that is your experience. I wonder if all victims of abuse feel that the church cares more about the abusers than the victims. I would suggest that your experience is your own and can't be projected onto the church as a whole. I can say that I too am a victim of sexual abuse in childhood. I have felt nothing but unconditional love and support for me through that experience. My experience is very different from your own. That may be the case, but not all addicts are abusers. Not even close. The groups are not to support people through abusing others, but to support them through addiction. I disagree. As a recovering addict myself, I can testify that healing is possible. It is possible not to act-out and to find genuine healing and recovery from the traumatic root causes of addiction. There is hope for the addict. The state does not agree with you as far as locking them away forever. If they don't find recovery, they will abuse again when they get out of jail. It is good for them to try and find healing from addiction. I feel confident that there are fewer victims because of the church's program. Most of the fellow victims I know have also left the church. One person I know who has stayed - is married to a convict... so yes, if you are willing to stay married to the person who repeatedly abused your kids, that is the example I have of someone who stayed. It would be nice to think people can get over their problems, but the sex-crime recidivism rates tell a much different story... Edited May 5, 2019 by changed
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