HappyJackWagon Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng Edited April 30, 2019 by HappyJackWagon 3
CV75 Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng The FAQs might be helpful: https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth/faq?lang=eng 1
HappyJackWagon Posted April 30, 2019 Author Posted April 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, CV75 said: The FAQs might be helpful: https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth/faq?lang=eng That's a logical assumption. It would make sense for the FAQ to be helpful, yet it's not. Actually, I think this is the FAQ from when it was announced there would be changes. I don't think anything has been updated to show what those changes will look like. 1
RevTestament Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng I hope your suspicions are wrong. There is a change in emphasis, but it does seem that Church activities will continue. I believe that is very needed so that the Church can provide an effective relief for youngsters who are shunned by their non-LDS communities. The feeling of family I received as a youngster at Church was important to me. The link CV75 provided does make it sound like such activities will continue, although they won't be required (I didn't realize they were required now) - maybe what is meant is that there won't be a merit badge system of requirements: 11. Will camps and other outdoor activities be part of the new experience in 2020? Yes. Camps and other outdoor activities will be an important part of gospel learning, building relationships, and strengthening faith in Jesus Christ. Children and youth may participate in Primary day camps, Young Women camps, Young Men camps, and high adventure activities. Local leaders, youth, and parents will identify and provide outdoor activities that invite spiritual experiences and meet the needs of their children and youth. 12. What other types of activities will be part of the new experience? Activities will be based on needs rather than requirements. Weekday activities, outdoor adventures, and youth conferences will continue as a vital part of helping children and youth learn, develop friendships, serve, and strengthen faith in Jesus Christ. I do hope weekly activities like futsol, basketball, volleyball, dances, etc continue. It does seem the Church realizes the importance of forming friendships amongst the youth. 2
ksfisher Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng The story in LDS Living doesn't seem to be in response to any new announcement by the church. My understanding, from people I know working on the program, is that further details will be provided closer to fall. 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. I don't think this is the case. I do believe that it will be left up to local leaders to determine frequency based on the needs and resources of those units. For example, in an area where travel distance is an issue then twice a month mutual may be more feasible than weekly. 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. My own remembrance from my days as a youth isn't about awards won, but of the relationships I had with other youth and leaders. From the little knowledge I have of the new program the individual goals that a youth is working are meant to be supported by the efforts of classmates, leaders, and parents. It will be different, but that doesn't necessarily mean the program will be any less robust. I also doubt that any of the wards outside of the United States will miss the scouting program. 4
Popular Post bluebell Posted April 30, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng I saw that article yesterday and after reading it i felt like I had fallen for some classic click bait. Yeah, there weren't any actual details given. I can't imagine the church stopping weekly youth activities because, at least in my ward, the weekly activities are where we see the less active and nonmember girls. It might have been years (or never!) since a girl was in a church meeting on a Sunday but we are seeing them regularly at weekly activities, so it seems like a waste of a good opportunity to get rid of those. But you may be right. As the YW president in my ward, that would make me sad, and also not sad, because planning and pulling off weekly activities are where we spend most of our time. But it's also where we really get to know the girls and where they get to know us. It's hard to have a relationship with people that you never spend any time with. I think the girls would suffer, but maybe I'm just not seeing the full picture. Time will tell. 5
bluebell Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I don't think this is the case. I do believe that it will be left up to local leaders to determine frequency based on the needs and resources of those units. For example, in an area where travel distance is an issue then twice a month mutual may be more feasible than weekly. That's the case right now though so that wouldn't be anything new. From Handbook 2: "Mutual is generally held weekly. If travel or other restrictions make this impractical, Mutual may be held less frequently, but it should be held at least monthly." 1
alter idem Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 It might be better to wait for something a bit more official. But, I personally would like any changes which allow for more flexibility so that wards and families have more say in how the programs are implemented to suit their particular needs. And I approve of the move to a more home centered church. The strength needs to be in the families. 3
bluebell Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, alter idem said: It might be better to wait for something a bit more official. But, I personally would like any changes which allow for more flexibility so that wards and families have more say in how the programs are implemented to suit their particular needs. And I approve of the move to a more home centered church. The strength needs to be in the families. I've got all my fingers and toes crossed that they do away with YW in Excellence and New Beginnings. O please, oh please, oh please, oh please....... 1
Burnside Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: That's a logical assumption. It would make sense for the FAQ to be helpful, yet it's not. Actually, I think this is the FAQ from when it was announced there would be changes. I don't think anything has been updated to show what those changes will look like. The site says exactly that. Quit you’re murmuring. “Details will be shared at childrenandyouth.lds.org as the implementation date approaches.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-program-children-youth
HappyJackWagon Posted April 30, 2019 Author Posted April 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Burnside said: The site says exactly that. Quit you’re murmuring. “Details will be shared at childrenandyouth.lds.org as the implementation date approaches.” https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/new-program-children-youth I'll murmur if I want, thank you very much Well, the implementation date approaches and that is the info and childrenandyouth.lds.org so it is reasonable to think, IMO, that there would be some updated info. Especially considering there was a new ldsliving article about it, linking to that info. There's no date on the links so I can't tell if it's old or new. Can you tell when the site was published? Sorry for any confusion but I blame ldsliving 4
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Popular Post Posted May 1, 2019 On 4/30/2019 at 7:47 AM, HappyJackWagon said: At the risk of irking Scott with my long topic title JK Scott- I was excited when I saw this headlined story on LDS Living, but far less excited after reading the story and listening to the short video explanations. Maybe you all can glean more out of it than I did. I hope so, because there is NO detail here. My take away is that the church is moving towards home centered youth activities with occasional bigger activities youth can participate in: things like camps etc. But it sounds to me like the days of weekly youth activities may be over. It is described that part of the new youth activity program will include parents reading scriptures with their children. OK, already happens in many homes. Parents can have religious discussions with their children in the car while driving to school. OK, already happens in many homes. Families and friends can participate and watch youth activities like school sports and musical events. Great, already happens. I really hope I'm missing a lot and would love to be educated. It sounds to me that there will be no Personal Progress, Duty to God or Scouting awards, but youth will be encouraged to make and achieve their personal goals. Great. It sounds to me like the church is getting out of the business of providing a robust youth program and calling it Home Centered Church. http://www.ldsliving.com/Church-Releases-More-Details-for-New-Youth-Initiative-to-Replace-Scouts-Personal-Progress-More/s/5474 https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng Two things: 1. Your thread title here is not unduly long. It’s when the title becomes effectively an opening post in and of itself that I believe the writer ought to try to be more concise. 2. I’ve not yet looked at the linked content, but if the Church is discontinuing regular weeknight meetings and activities, I’d call that huge. It’s a sea change from tradition going back to my youth in the 1960s and earlier. And I will tentatively say I welcome such a change. Our youth have long been over-programmed and over-scheduled with the combination of school activities and homework, community sports and other pursuits and Scouts/Young Women. Way too little leisure time and opportunity left for family interaction and memory making. That’s my regret as my children have now begun entering adulthood. 5
Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) On 4/30/2019 at 9:20 AM, RevTestament said: I hope your suspicions are wrong. There is a change in emphasis, but it does seem that Church activities will continue. I believe that is very needed so that the Church can provide an effective relief for youngsters who are shunned by their non-LDS communities. The feeling of family I received as a youngster at Church was important to me. The link CV75 provided does make it sound like such activities will continue, although they won't be required (I didn't realize they were required now) - maybe what is meant is that there won't be a merit badge system of requirements: 11. Will camps and other outdoor activities be part of the new experience in 2020? Yes. Camps and other outdoor activities will be an important part of gospel learning, building relationships, and strengthening faith in Jesus Christ. Children and youth may participate in Primary day camps, Young Women camps, Young Men camps, and high adventure activities. Local leaders, youth, and parents will identify and provide outdoor activities that invite spiritual experiences and meet the needs of their children and youth. 12. What other types of activities will be part of the new experience? Activities will be based on needs rather than requirements. Weekday activities, outdoor adventures, and youth conferences will continue as a vital part of helping children and youth learn, develop friendships, serve, and strengthen faith in Jesus Christ. I do hope weekly activities like futsol, basketball, volleyball, dances, etc continue. It does seem the Church realizes the importance of forming friendships amongst the youth. What I hope will happen is greater flexibility, that the option is there for those who need the weekly meetings but attendance won’t be expected for youth who can find other ways to fulfill their needs through personal goal setting. That participation in, say, a summer camp, high adventure activity or sports teams will be on a menu that youth will select from, but there will be a greater emphasis on personal choice. Edited May 1, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 2
6EQUJ5 Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Our youth have long been over-programmed and over-scheduled with the combination of school activities and homework, community sports and other pursuits and Scouts/Young Women. Way too little leisure time and opportunity left for family interaction and memory making. Do your arms hurt from steadying that ark? 1
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Popular Post Posted May 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Do your arms hurt from steadying that ark? Welcome to my ignore list. You’ve worked long and hard for it. Congratulations. 5
Popular Post HappyJackWagon Posted May 1, 2019 Author Popular Post Posted May 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: Welcome to my ignore list. You’ve worked long and hard for it. Congratulations. I don't know why that made me chuckle so loudly. Well done! 6
SouthernMo Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Welcome to my ignore list. You’ve worked long and hard for it. Congratulations. @6EQUJ5 - don’t sweat it. Scott will remind you from time to time that he is ignoring you. 1
RevTestament Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: What I hope will happen is greater flexibility, that the option is there for those who need the weekly meetings but attendance won’t be expected for youth who can find other ways to fulfill their needs through personal goal setting. That participation in, say, a summer camp, high adventure activity or sports teams will be on a menu that youth will select from, but there will be a greater emphasis on personal choice. `My comments here will be more oriented towards boys - all my kids were boys. What I see as happening is that at least in LDS areas, boys are getting in to high school and losing interest in scouting. All my boys loved cub scouts. Cub scouting provided another way to socialize, and gain not only social skills but some good general knowledge to teach independence. Their local community was not particularly LDS, and had no other LDS kids to play with. When they got into high school, they got into sports and their social network widened. Interests changed, and the merit badge system just wasn't a lure anymore. I see this as the main place and opportunity for the Church to improve on experiences for our youth. Yes, we need more flexibility and options there. For elementary and even Jr High, I think a system much like scouts which gives a little more structure works well. For teenagers scouting just wasn't working out - esp on an international level. So, yeah, more flexibility there. I am all for that, but I hope all wards strive to provide appropriate weekly activities. I think some variety is called for, and input from the youngsters on a local level. However, I don't want to see activities just go away because the "popular" kids are too busy. 2
SouthernMo Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Our youth have long been over-programmed and over-scheduled with the combination of school activities and homework, community sports and other pursuits and Scouts/Young Women. Way too little leisure time and opportunity left for family interaction and memory making. I’ll go out on a limb here and guess that before the announcement that scouts and YW activities will be reduced or changing, you fully supported and endorsed the time required for those weekly engagements and called anyone who questioned their utility to repentance for not obeying the inspired brethren’s programs?
Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, RevTestament said: `My comments here will be more oriented towards boys - all my kids were boys. What I see as happening is that at least in LDS areas, boys are getting in to high school and losing interest in scouting. All my boys loved cub scouts. Cub scouting provided another way to socialize, and gain not only social skills but some good general knowledge to teach independence. Their local community was not particularly LDS, and had no other LDS kids to play with. When they got into high school, they got into sports and their social network widened. Interests changed, and the merit badge system just wasn't a lure anymore. I see this as the main place and opportunity for the Church to improve on experiences for our youth. Yes, we need more flexibility and options there. For elementary and even Jr High, I think a system much like scouts which gives a little more structure works well. For teenagers scouting just wasn't working out - esp on an international level. So, yeah, more flexibility there. I am all for that, but I hope all wards strive to provide appropriate weekly activities. I think some variety is called for, and input from the youngsters on a local level. However, I don't want to see activities just go away because the "popular" kids are too busy. I wish our parents, by-and-large, would be more limiting in the school- and community-based pursuits they involve their kids in. As I stated before, I want to see more family-based interaction and more time and opportunity left over for it.
bluebell Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: I’ll go out on a limb here and guess that before the announcement that scouts and YW activities will be reduced or changing, you fully supported and endorsed the time required for those weekly engagements and called anyone who questioned their utility to repentance for not obeying the inspired brethren’s programs? If heard Scott talk about this subject in other threads and my memory is that he's always wished for the change. Maybe i'm remembering wrong though.
SouthernMo Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 Just now, bluebell said: If heard Scott talk about this subject in other threads and my memory is that he's always wished for the change. Maybe i'm remembering wrong though. Wow! If so, Kudos to Scott! I usually see his posts as rabidly defensive of any current church practice.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bluebell said: If heard Scott talk about this subject in other threads and my memory is that he's always wished for the change. Maybe i'm remembering wrong though. I’ve never been what one would typically consider a whole-hearted devotee of Scouting. Except when I was a patrol leader back when I was 13 or 14. That was a good experience for me. But I didn’t do things precisely by the book even then. And yes, when BSA itself began making startling changes, I felt it was time for the Church to discontinue being a chartering organization. And I said so. And I’ve grumbled before about Friends of Scouting. Edited May 1, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 3
RevTestament Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I wish our parents, by-and-large, would be more limiting in the school- and community-based pursuits they involve their kids in. As I stated before, I want to see more family-based interaction and more time and opportunity left over for it. At least in Utah I see a drive to push kids into all kinds of activities in preparation for admittance into college. While some activities are fine, some teenagers seem to have as full or fuller schedule than their parents. I don't seem to see that with my family outside of Utah, but really don't know exactly what's going on in the rest of the country. Anyway, I hope Utahans don't push the Church out of their kids lives.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 21 minutes ago, RevTestament said: At least in Utah I see a drive to push kids into all kinds of activities in preparation for admittance into college. While some activities are fine, some teenagers seem to have as full or fuller schedule than their parents. I don't seem to see that with my family outside of Utah, but really don't know exactly what's going on in the rest of the country. Anyway, I hope Utahans don't push the Church out of their kids lives. My hope is there will be adaptations so the parents don’t see a need to. Or that there would be commensurate disengagement from the school and/or community options. By the way, we Utahns don’t spell it “Utahans.”
Recommended Posts