Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

[phaedrus ut]

3 hours ago, juliann said:

https://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2019/05/laffaire-denson-and-the-ex-mormon-dilemma.html?fbclid=IwAR0W76TL6M5LsnmMM3MPoVlsNUQVR1ZMyXIMaTcEwZdTkH7STjFDxATJAyA

I assume this is the blog for Stephen Smoot.  I can't quite put my finger on it but he always comes off as lacking self awareness in a Dunning-Kruger way for me.  His apologetic style is definitely leans towards more DCP and the old FARMS that modern Mormon Studies. 

Phaedrus 

 

[Tacenda]

Bill Reel posted this to his website. He will keep updating when he gets more police reports. 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/MormonDiscussion/PF-Changs.pdf

https://s3.amazonaws.com/MormonDiscussion/California-Dreaming-Police-Report.pdf

ETA: Anyone that can swallow razer blades while pregnant, is definitely insane in one way or the other. 

After reading the report of the PF Changs incident, I wonder if anyone else in the party was in on it. Maybe they figured they could get a big pay out by suing?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Tacenda

[Calm]

23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Bill Reel posted this to his website. He will keep updating when he gets more police reports. 

https://s3.amazonaws.com/MormonDiscussion/PF-Changs.pdf

https://s3.amazonaws.com/MormonDiscussion/California-Dreaming-Police-Report.pdf

Adding any additional info, taking from the 'best' report that I have read up to the time of posting...posting as I go through 66 pages so may change.

Police report describes them first as 1/2 inch diamond shaped pieces of box cutter blade, then as razor blades.

Major point...the cake was heated in the microwave before serving, no sparks indicating the presence of metal occurred (assuming employees telling truth).

Waiter took a polygraph for what that is worth (not much if sociopath/psychopath), but sounds like a sensible person as reported.

The police were informed relatively early that Denson had done similar things before...I wonder if it had to be from someone near to her as it wasn't reported there was a crime stoppers or similar public info published at this point in the report plus the personal info sounds like a friend who is unhappy she is doing this and may want her to get help....looks like she was a friend of a daughter.

Quote

A short time later at approximately 1145 hours I received a page and returned the call. I spoke with a woman who identified herself as Vicki Jacobsen who is an attorney with the insurance company of Gallagher and Basset. Ms. Jacobsen indicated that she had received a message on her voice mail from an anonymous female who indicated the victim, Ms. Denson, is a con artist and has done this before.

According to Ms. Jacobsen the anonymous female caller said that Ms. Denson has had some teeth replaced at the expense of others doing similar things. She also indicated that the caller said that Ms. Denson was currently pregnant and needs someone to pay for things for the baby. According to Ms. Jacobsen, the female caller also indicated something about swallowing six to eight razor blades. 

Cake was run through metal detector at baker's where shrinkwrapped as standard precaution.

Quote

that it appeared from the conversation they had with the ahonymous caller that she was an acquaintance of Ms. Denson and that she knew her daughters, She also knew that Ms. Denson lived at the Cheyenne Arms Apartments and indicated that Ms. Denson has bills at all of the hospitals in Colorado Springs. She also mentioned that Ms. Denson has an ex-husband by the name of “----" unknown last name, that possibly lives in Salt Lake City. This anonymous caller stated that Ms. Denson is a liar and that Ms. Denson has talked about being in nursing school in the past and also has indicated that she has rare diseases and cancer and tumors and then will suddenly have a miraculous recovery. 

The anonymous caller said that she has been disgusted with Ms. Denson’s lying and had also mentioned the information about Ms. Denson getting pregnant. Mr. Hayes said the anonymous caller stated that Ms. Denson was pregnant at this time but that she had recently had sex with an unknown subject that was not responsible for the baby and then indicated that it was rape. The anonymous caller said that she did not know whether or not Ms. Denson had reported this alleged rape to the police. The anonymous caller also mentioned to Mr. Hayes that Ms. Denson goes by the name of “MeKenna” and that she has had her teeth repaired through some sort of claim. 

I am editing nonprofessionals names out even if they can be found in police report.

Dinner was planned for by Denson.  Both she and one other mother were out of work and that mother expressed concern about how it would be paid for.  Denson said they would just buy together and split check.  It was to celebrate their daughters graduating from junior high.  3 adults and 4 kids present (my commentary...she is comfortable traumatizing her own and others' kids apparently).

Denson suggested the cake as dessert.

The mother asked for the check after Denson had been taken by EMTs, manager said not to worry about it (of course, I mention this as the mother asking for one rather than going dramatic shows integrity on her part, imo).  Another adult had contributed $10 and the mother gave that to one of the servers.

The kids were all crying during this.  Denson's kids were taken care of for 4 nights after the incident.

from the mother:

Quote

June also mentioned to her that she was seeing an attorney and thought that if she was seeing an attorney it was probably no longer any of her business. She said she didn’t inquire any further about the incident after that. 

Looks like the surgery was scoping her stomach.  Pieces were in her intestines by then, found by X-ray, not the scope.

Quote

said McKenna and her went to Ms. ---- house so that Ms. ---- could keep an eye on her. She said they went to bed after getting home around 4:00 in the morning and got up around 10:00 in the morning the next day. She said they ate breakfast consisting of scrambled eggs and tortilla, at which time she recalled McKenna calling a friend in Oregon by the name of ---- (phonetic). She said McKenna was telling her friend, ----, what was going on and recalls McKenna asking to talk to ---- husband who was a doctor. She said McKenna talked to him about taking a laxative and her concern about passing them. According to Ms. ----, McKenna was told that she should get a lawyer and to go back to the hospital. 

She said after she spoke with Sonyay’s husband, she called a couple different lawyers around town and ended up driving to Kenton D. Kinard’s office. She said they met with an attorney there and then Ms. Creadeur said she took McKenna to the hospital. She said she took her to the same hospital, that being Penrose Community Hospital, to be seen. I asked Ms. Creadeur what McKenna told the attorney and she said that McKenna just went through the story about going to PF Chang’s and eating a very good meal and then eating a piece of frosting off of a piece of cake and swallowing some metal which was shown in some x-rays. She said she told the attorney that these metal pieces had not been passed by her and she said the attorney advised MeKenna that there would be some kind of lien against the liability insurance for PF Chang’s so she would not have to pay for the medical care. Ms. Creadeur said she was really not familiar with this process and wasn’t really sure about what the attorney said, other than making it sound as though some insurance company was going to pay for McKenna’s medical treatment. 

think I may skip Norton's stuff and wait for the actual reports.  

Add-on:  looks like I was wrong and Norton right...earlier police reports are not altered with latter, more accurate info which makes sense.

So may alter some more stuff as I go along...

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[lostindc]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I have never said anything about me ignoring claims from victims. I can’t believe after all I’ve written that’s what you think. You must be reading with some sort of weird filter/blinder on. 

I liked your post for the second paragraph, which is basically what I have been saying this whole time, albeit using the language of academic rhetoric and explaining in depth. 

I should reword my statement to say give reason for members, not you.  I apologize.  I don't see any evidence you would do such a thing.  I was typing fast from an iPhone and just not thinking on that one.

[MiserereNobis]

15 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I should reword my statement to say give reason for members, not you.  I apologize.  I don't see any evidence you would do such a thing.  I was typing fast from an iPhone and just not thinking on that one.

Ok, thank you. 

[Calm]

Part 2 police report on pregnant Denson swallowing razor blades...

It must be very frustrating to be a police detective and have to get the info piecemeal...I have to keep changing stuff because the report is too long just to read through and go back.  Apologies for the inaccurate info.

She did have surgery after she went back to hospital on advice of her lawyer.  She didn't want to take the laxative because of what her friend's husband the doctor had said apparently.  Doctor at the hospital agreed surgery could be safer for the baby, but when they went in they were in different places, so they backed out and put her on a liquid plus jello diet to get them out quickly and safely (thinking less likely to drag blade against the side of the intestine or push it through if she was straining at all).

Then drama over telling the father of baby he was the father, apparently he denied it at least to the one woman.

Quote

said when she went to the hospital on Monday the nurse said that they didn’t remove anything from McKenna. She said the doctor spoke with McKenna and her and confirmed that they did not take anything out of McKenna. She said the doctor explained that when they went and did the surgery they clamped the large intestine. The doctor said the pieces of metal were in five different places in the large intestine and also indicated that there had been no damage caused by the metal pieces to the small intestine and thought that it may be better just to pass these objects naturally than to risk more invasive surgery cutting her large intestine in five different places to retrieve these items. 

Taking a break as I have old tech that is causing problems with cut paste.  Deciding if I should paraphrase or try my iPad.

Anyone prefer the quotes to a paraphrase with page number?  I am halfway through.

Not sure if anyone else is fascinated by police stuff...should have avoided all that Agatha Christie and Perry Mason (only show my grandparents liked that I liked) stuff as a kid.  I LOVE people puzzles.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

Page 29:  incident in files about Denson reporting an ex boyfriend trying to get into her house when kids were there alone.

Page 30 with anonymous tipster...looks like this is where Norton got much of his list, unless confirmed by police, I won't put up.  Those interested can check the first link Tacenda put up and read the info starting on page 29 bottom.  9 incidents, including the guy jailed but acquitted and accusations against 3 black men (mentioned this because Norton and others expressed concern about playing into racism).

Page 31 Confirmation of anonymous tip claim that Denson got her teeth fixed through a claim against a SS Subs a number of years previously.  Not much detail.  This police detective is earning his pay tracking this stuff down.

Pg 32 Arrested in 2001 for Simple Battery and Obstruction  of Officers in Atlanta, Georgia.  This is probably the tipster's incident back a page where Denson was on a plane, had taken some drugs (prescribed if I interpret correct) and then drank alcohol, leading her to "flip out".  There was a layover when police were called and she "flipped out" on them.  Community Service was the sentence.

Outstanding warrant for Contempt of Court in El Paso, bond $1000 from 2004

Page 33 Detective contacted her former employer at BMW.  Denson had been best friends with his wife, so he had got her a job.  Wife and him were upset because they discovered she lied all the time.  SS Sub incident happened there (they got subs for lunch).  Cracked tooth repaired.

Fellow employees had given her money for surgery due to blacked out problem, $700-1300.  She was with a boyfriend during the time she said she was to have the surgery.  

Asked for help for bankruptcy.  The employees (married couple) had let her stay at their house for 2 months and later found a suspicious electronic transfer from a dormant account.  No proof, but they thought she got the info from files with routing numbers.

Former employer went with a friend (home teaching or maybe covered hospitals? Maybe her bishop?) to see Denson in the hospital (for razor blade surgery).  Friend is in real estate.  Denson said she would be buying a house within a year from friend (and yet no job and 12 weeks pregnant....hmmmm....).  Also told them she had swallowed six razor blades (doesn't say if she conveyed it as intentional or accidental, thinking latter but she might have been drugged and looselipped).  Also talked about moving to Kuwait or Iraq, he thinks she said this for attention.

Page 35 and 36 interview with man Denson told her children had raped her, apparently they were thinking of getting married as they went to premarital counseling.  No longer seeing each other.  He had been paying her utilities.  She accused him of keying her car.  Denson had "hooked up" with another guy while seeing him.  Confirmation of tipster info that she had recorded sexual conversations with a boss who she claimed was offering her a high position.

Some attempted credit card fraud with dentist...for several thousands

Page 37  Denson owed money at a lot of hospitals, she assaulted an orderly while at one of them

Page 38 Dental claim not confirmed by SS Subs

Utility company reported fraud and unpaid bill by Denson

Interview with Denson herself follows

 

 

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

... After reading the report of the PF Changs incident, I wonder if anyone else in the party was in on it. Maybe they figured they could get a big pay out by suing?

Guilt by association and innuendo!  Nice!  

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Guilt by association and innuendo!  Nice!  

You know me! I just don't know how McKenna was able to put razor blades in the frosting without anyone seeing.

[Calm]

Page 40  He reads her Miranda rights

She said she thought it was like the Tylenol Capsule scare

Pg 42 She says she thinks the person who did this would expect someone to chew and just cut their mouth.

Page 43  party was to celebrate getting in junior high, not graduating; kids are even younger than I thought.  Shared custody as kids stayed with Dad during summer

Page 46 She just took frosting and scraped off chocolate chips and then swallowed.  (The comment about being expected to chew and her removing any reason to chew is suspicious....perhaps she figured swallowing it would yield more money because of needing surgery and therefore she had to have a reason not to chew)

She described it like swallowing a scratchy tortilla chip (but tasted blood and it was painful) and said she couldn't remember telling people she had swallowed something metal, which others had said she said right away.  She said she didn't think it would occur to her it was metal (big oops there).

Page 48 odd stuff about her friend's husband telling her to get a lawyer when he was very anti-lawyer

She goes to a lawyer and only then goes back to the hospital

Page 49 Denson mentions that the surgeon said if she had taken the laxative as recommended by previous doctor, she would be probably dead (hmmm....., like a doctor is going to say that about another doctor at the same hospital...hops The Detectives check on this like they are checking every other little thing).

Page 50  she wanted her boyfriend there to help make decisions about baby

Since she had eaten solid foods, blades looked safe to go naturally.  Laxatives would have kept them unencased and dangerous.  15 inch surgical scar.  Hospital for a week.

Page 51  she thought exacto knife blades like she had at home when she was shown them

53 She claimed she got info from reading a police report from her attorney.  Detective hadn't turned in his reports, sounds like it was the officer's.  She said it was strange the microwave hadn't reacted with the blades in the frosting.  She says has to be intentional since more than one piece.

54 she wouldn't risk her own or her baby's life by doing this

55  asked about if she sued someone before...was hit by a city truck in 87 or 88 in Utah, got $40,000

Page 56  said she had been t-boned by a teenager, but hadn't sued.  "Out of the blue" said she had been pronounced dead at scene.

Asked if she had accused anyone of rape besides the neighbour with OJ she mentioned before (I don't think I mentioned it).  She states she had never accused anyone else ever hurting or injuring her, though there was a boss who wanted to film her having sex with his wife.  (Goes into details, didn't get money.)

Note:  this was in 2004 which would have been way after she had talked to Bishop Leavitt and Elder Asay and of course, the alleged abuse from her stepfather as a child (though I am not aware if she claims she told anyone about that prior to 2004 though she had in therapy and supposedly given medication for the alleged rape by her neighbour).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You know me! I just don't know how McKenna was able to put razor blades in the frosting without anyone seeing.

I don't think she put them in the frosting because she took apparently a small bite.  She most likely swallowed them when she was in the bathroom for a long time right before she ate the frosting.  There would also have been a risk of someone else taking them if she had put on the cake itself and not hide the spoon/fork somehow from view before putting in her mouth.  If she took them in the bathroom, she might have swallowed them with something to protect her as she needed them to not cut her mouth so she had an excuse to swallow them (and therefore get more money...or so I am guessing).

KFrom the testimonies and reactions, I think she was all on her own.

add-on:  dectective thinks she just put them in her mouth in the bathroom and then swallowed them when she got back to the table and ate a bit of frosting.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

He asked her about the tooth breaking...'oh yeah, that one'.

Pg 57 tooth was Heavenly Ham and bone in chicken salad.

Had pain in right side postsurgery.

Discussion about medication, some contradictions.

58 He confronts her on her being the perpetrator, has her putting the razor blades in her mouth in bathroom and swallowing with cake (which would be no risk of pain....extended time could have been her psyching herself up).

She denies.

59 discussion continues, she says she had planned to go to nursing school, but couldn't because of pregnancy, swallowing blades would change nothing.

60  would do a polygraph, detective says he will go set it up, she says it has to wait for her attorney.  She is upset, angry at accusation.  Tells her there is an outstanding warrant and if confirmed, he will have to arrest her.  Complains of pain while he is calling to confirm, he asks if she wants medical attention.

61  he takes her in a wheelchair to lobby and then she gets taken to hospital, she is to be arrested after she is released by waiting officer

Stuff about polygraph scheduling.  Denson fails to show up later for her appointment.

He calls her and she tells him she is going to a private polygraphist.  Lawyer had vetoed using police as if criminally charged, it could be used in court.

Lawyer would contact him if she passed the test.  When asked what he would do if she didn't, he was unsure.

Lawyer hadn't contacted The Detective by the time the report was filed, Oct 22

Page 64 December 6, 2004   Insurance adjuster contacts police saying Denson passed polygraph according to lawyer.  Detective tells her he is filing with DA and suggests she has someone review polygraph results.

Detective calls her lawyer to get polygraph results.  Not all ready.  Turns out they had used the polygraphist who the detective had rejected (names are blacked out in this file) previously for having a bad reputation.

When lawyer discussed polygraph with insurance adjuster, he said police did not have right to tell him who to use (as told to police by adjuster).

Pg 65  adjuster says Denson told her she thought it was chocolate chips scratching her thought (another opps, Denson can't keep her story straight).  Denson also claimed she went to bathroom because she felt ill, contrary to what she had told police.  

Nothing followed for some reason...an empty sheet for turning over to .DA, so I am thinking it was turned over and then not prosecuted for some reason...perhaps Denson dropped her claims against the restaurant.

------

Maybe it is just the style, but this report feels the same to me as the one where she claims to have been assaulted with her changing details when advantageous to her, seeing lawyer before police or even gointo the hospital when in pain supposedly.

Very interesting to see how detailed they are,  impressive.

Lack of that kind of report with the latest assault claim makes me think she wasn't taken seriously.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

Literally my favourite thing from this whole sordid mess so far:

From 'Radio Free Mormon', who has repeatedly attemped to smear the Church for not telling the 'whole story' (i.e. the details he prefers since the actual whole story would need to be infinite in size):

Quote

At this point (still four months ago), she told me she wanted to go public with the story; I advised her in no uncertain terms to not do that; I told her I wasn't the smartest guy in the world, but the first thing I thought of when she said the story about the Drano in the orange juice was the razor blades in the P.F. Chang's cake frosting; that I was sure I wasn't the only person who would make the connection.

 

[Calm]

The reports are a serious problem for her, if only because she repudiates her own claim that she had told the Church back in the 80's through Leavitt and then Asay about the sexual assault by Bishop.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

The second link is from Charleston, but is handwritten.  I think it's is about a white male following her around in Feb 99.  This may take some work reading.  

Denson states he waved at her when parking after following her from work, I think, and contacted the police because she worried about him hurting her or her children.

Turns out the guy following her was a private investigator hired by her husband.  He never approached or contacted her So case was closed.  Denson knew who he was already when contacted by the investigator two days after the report was first filed.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

Next report is Jan 99 in same link, attempted assault in Charlestown, California dreaming...there is another police report typed up, so not struggling with this one.  Never been good with reading cursive.  Had read the two typed reports, but the second cursive one had details on how she described the alleged two black assailants (one was on drugs, they had poor grammar).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

The reports are a serious problem for her, if only because she repudiates her own claim that she had told the Church back in the 80's though Leavitt and then Asay about the sexual assault by Bishop.

Reference?

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Reference?

I bolded it in one of my posts from an hour ago.  Added First link page 56

I thought I did more detail on the California Dreaming case (the two black guys pistol whipping and sticking her into a truck claim), but apparently not.

May do it tomorrow...or not if I feel like moving (didn't today).

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

I bolded it in one of my posts from an hour ago.

Found it. Thanks!

Feel better!

[Calm]

Maybe can quote it:

Quote

I then asked Ms. Denson if she had ever accused anyone else of any criminal behavior other than her neighbor, who she indicated she filed rape charges against earlier in the interview. 

She then told me she had never accused anyone else of hurting her or injuring her, but did mention to me that she had a boss who wanted to video tape her having sex with his wife....

I asked her if there was anything else, and she said no. I then asked her if she recalled breaking her tooth on a sandwich or something like that, and she said, oh, yeah, and then told me that she did. 

I then asked her if there was anything else along those lines that she could recall, and she told me there was nothing else that she could remember. 

Given the other documented accusations, she is lying, but I can see this being a problem for her legally.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Abulafia]

Hi all, just a quick question.  Didn't  Smac and a newspaper article discuss some of the contents of the dossier back when this first came out?  I knew about the false rape claims, the razor blades, the Cancer claims and etc , and I'm pretty sure it was from Smac or others here who had at least some access.

Smac also predicted that the ex Mormon community would turn on McKenna.  

 

I still see McKenna as someone who was molested in a basement and who is  an incredibly damaged and dysfunctional  individual who does damaged and dysfunctional  things, with the research supporting that. 

 

Well done Smac for a prescient statement. Spot on, sadly.

[Calm]

Yes, the dossier had most of the stories, though not the details.  And the existence of the dossier drew massive criticism, so few can claim not to be aware of it and its accusations if they were paying attention from the beginning.

When .I used to do a search on the bishop lawsuit and "razor blades", iirc the only thing that came up was the original Fox13 story and a few threads here where we had talked about it.  

https://fox13now.com/2018/03/21/family-of-former-lds-mission-president-accused-of-sexual-assault-responds-to-allegations/

Quote

One of those incidents was in 1999, where the woman claimed she was assaulted in a parking lot by two men, then asserted legal claims against her place of work for failing to have proper security....

Other incidents ranged from allegedly lying about cancer treatments for money, forging prescriptions, and DUI. Police documents show the woman also claimed a restaurant put razor blades in the icing of a chocolate cake—only for police, doctors and psychologists to say she did it intentionally.

It has always astonished me that those activists that accepted her as a poster child for their causes never bother to ask her for details to investigate, even if only to exonerate her.  How difficult would it have been when she was being interviewed to have simply asked for the time and place so they could have checked out the police report...especially when so many critics were applauding taking BYU Police to court to get an unredacted file on Bishop and others condemning the Church for coverup by not sharing info about Bishop.  Instead the vast majority appeared to be satisfied with her and her lawyer's remarks that she owned her mistakes of the past and some of the claims were misrepresentations, basically telling everyone to move on, it was all over with, in the past, nothing to see here, folks....even after she had just been charged with an identity theft.

There were a few voices, but when .I saw them speak up there also seemed several willing to label them protectors of sexual predators and church defenders even though they were quite critical of the Church at the same time they were urging people to take a closer look at Denson.

It creates, imo, a real credibility issue for those who claim to want only the truth no matter how hard it may be for some, but were so willing to ignore it when it suited their agenda until it was impossible to do so.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

I wonder if Sam Young will now consider vetting his collection of abuse stories at least to some degree or continue to put up anything and everything even after there were those admitting publicly they had tested his system by posting a number of different fraudulent stories of abuse to see if there was ever a line too far for him to not post.

[Abulafia]

Thanks Calm. I thought as much.  

[Calm]

Yeah, simple question, way too long answer, lol. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by Calm