Status of Discovery in Denson Lawsuit

[juliann]

On 5/29/2019 at 3:15 AM, Abulafia said:

Hi all, just a quick question.  Didn't  Smac and a newspaper article discuss some of the contents of the dossier back when this first came out?  I knew about the false rape claims, the razor blades, the Cancer claims and etc , and I'm pretty sure it was from Smac or others here who had at least some access.

Smac also predicted that the ex Mormon community would turn on McKenna.  

 

I still see McKenna as someone who was molested in a basement and who is  an incredibly damaged and dysfunctional  individual who does damaged and dysfunctional  things, with the research supporting that. 

 

Well done Smac for a prescient statement. Spot on, sadly.

We had smac and a couple of other lawyers analyzing the legal side of things as I recall. It was impossible to take her accusations seriously after that thread. So we haven't had much defending of her here. That is what makes me roll my eyes that this is such a surprise to some and I hope there is some serious self-reflection for those who did but I am mostly seeing attacks on Norton instead (not that he doesn't deserve it.) 

You spend more time in critical sites so maybe you know this. Have you seen any substantiation of her claims of childhood abuse or her self-proclaimed mental illness diagnoses? It seems like a lot of people are cherrypicking which claims to believe when none are any more substantiated than the others. 

 

[Avatar4321]

On 5/28/2019 at 1:30 AM, Calm said:

FYI, from a friend as I have stuff interfering tonight so far:

 

Thst is quite violent...

[changed]

58 minutes ago, juliann said:

This is true, but I am seeing it being used to explain Denson's fraud nonstop. So I'm going to ask again. Why do you believe this claim but discard others? Almost everything she said was taken at face value, with no demand for substantiation, which is why the exmo community was so hoodwinked.

What proof is there that her story of childhood abuse is anymore real than her rape concoctions?

For the record, NO one is denying that Bishop is blameless. 

 

It all started with her recorded interview of Bishop, in which he admits molesting her - as well as molesting others.  McKenna is not the only one in this case, she is just the most vocal one.  I think the church shouldbe transparent with its records, that it should go to court, that everyone involved should go to court to sort it all out.  

Edited May 30, 2019 by changed

[bluebell]

47 minutes ago, juliann said:

We had smac and a couple of other lawyers analyzing the legal side of things as I recall. It was impossible to take her accusations seriously after that thread. So we haven't had much defending of her here. That is what makes me roll my eyes that this is such a surprise to some and I hope there is some serious self-reflection for those who did but I am mostly seeing attacks on Norton instead (not that he doesn't deserve it.) 

You spend more time in critical sites so maybe you know this. Have you seen any substantiation of her claims of childhood abuse or her self-proclaimed mental illness diagnoses? It seems like a lot of people are cherrypicking which claims to believe when none are any more substantiated than the others. 

 

I guess I assumed that everyone had gone through all of the information about Denson.  I didn't understand why people were just now freaking out about her past when the information has practically be available from the start. If they really haven't bothered to look into it until now though, i guess their reactions make sense.

[juliann]

Just now, changed said:

 

It all started with her recorded interview of Bishop, in which he admits molesting her - as well as molesting others.  McKenna is not the only one in this case, she is just the most vocal one.  

It is debatable what he admitted to. Given her accusing 5 or more other men of rape, that one is off the table. Again, no one is insisting Bishop is not shady. But that is not the point. So one more time....

Denson has garnered protection and justification (which is still occuring) because she was abused as a child. Is there anything to substantiate this aside from her saying it (just like everything else she said was believed with no proof.) It is common enough to be believed but I think everything she has said needs to be substantiated at this point. 

[Avatar4321]

On 5/28/2019 at 10:15 AM, esodije said:

Notwithstanding the “dossier,” I think the church has specifically soft-pedaled the Denson lawsuit in the expectation that she would eventually—inevitably—self-immolate.  I don’t know how much to believe Norton, especially when he says things such as that Denson was sent home early from her mission in Wisconsin for performing oral sex on a male missionary (yet she somehow stayed active in church and eventually married in the temple?); however, Denson is quickly losing friends.

Alma 30:60 comes to mind

[juliann]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I guess I assumed that everyone had gone through all of the information about Denson.  I didn't understand why people were just now freaking out about her past when the information has practically be available from the start. If they really haven't bothered to look into it until now though, i guess their reactions make sense.

That there is so much circling the wagons now and making Norton the predator instead,  it is apparent they knew. They just chose to ignore it and turn any attempts to discuss it into "victim shaming" to silence any opposition. The exmo community is used to hurling charges at LDS (not saying we are always innocent!) and have recently been having a come to Jesus moment themselves as they have been faced with the same things in their own ranks. It took them a long time to finally come out against sexually predatory men in general in a ex/criticMormonmetoo kind of moment.  Although, they still blame Mormonism for creating those men. 🙄  Just as they now are wanting this to be about Denson's childhood abuse trauma and Norton rather than how they have enabled a predator.

[changed]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

It is debatable what he admitted to. Given her accusing 5 or more other men of rape, that one is off the table. Again, no one is insisting Bishop is not shady. But that is not the point. So one more time....

Denson has garnered protection and justification (which is still occuring) because she was abused as a child. Is there anything to substantiate this aside from her saying it (just like everything else she said was believed with no proof.) It is common enough to be believed but I think everything she has said needs to be substantiated at this point. 

Why did she leave her mission early?  Why were other missionaries saying the same thing?  Bishop is shady, that is for sure.

[JulieM]

15 minutes ago, changed said:

Why did she leave her mission early?  Why were other missionaries saying the same thing?  Bishop is shady, that is for sure.

And wasn’t there another victim who came forward too (or at I remembering wrong?).

No one is coming out of this looking good imo.  This is a sad mess.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, juliann said:

NO one is denying that Bishop is blameless. 

"Saying" perhaps rather than "denying"?

[Avatar4321]

On 5/28/2019 at 1:59 PM, stemelbow said:

What a mess!  If anything is a mess it is this whole episode.  Norton's a lunatic, I'm afraid.  One minute he's acting best buddies with this lady, the next he's threatening to kill her.  I'd be afraid for humanity if these two were representative for more than a few of us.  

All we can do is pray for them

[Calm]

1 hour ago, changed said:

Why were other missionaries saying the same thing? 

What other missionaries were saying what same thing?

[Avatar4321]

23 hours ago, changed said:

 

and here I thought the Spirit was supposed to guide and protect people at places like the MTC - I guess not.  

You shouldnt mock the Spirit 

[Calm]

23 hours ago, changed said:

 

and here I thought the Spirit was supposed to guide and protect people at places like the MTC - I guess not.  

Does this mean you agree there was nothing prior to his serving in the MTC that would indicate he was a predator?  That only with the Spirit could leaders have known of future issues?

If not, please identify what does and provide a reference along with the claim, please.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calm

[Avatar4321]

22 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I’m not getting into it.  Surprised to see what appeared to be some partisan smugness but really not interested but n arguing it.  All the best

Wait, she is shown to have a history of making things up. But that's not a reason to disbelieve her accusation against thr Church. But talk about the substance and you dont want to get into it? Seriously? Come on

[Calm]

1 hour ago, changed said:

Why did she leave her mission early?  

I believe Norton claims it was for being sexually inappropriate with another missionary (I haven't listened to all his video as I preferred putting the time and effort into the police reports, so I got this from someone's report of him).  He is precise, I don't want to get 403ed.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, JulieM said:

And wasn’t there another victim who came forward too (or at I remembering wrong?).

I vaguely remember claims on Facebook, but nothing reported in the news....but I could be confusing another incident.

The Church reported a second woman making an accusation, but she never went public that I am aware of.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calm

[stemelbow]

17 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

Wait, she is shown to have a history of making things up. But that's not a reason to disbelieve her accusation against thr Church. But talk about the substance and you dont want to get into it? Seriously? Come on

I didn’t say one thing about believing her accusations against the church.  I don’t care to back and re hash details because at this point it’s all memories for me now and I’m not interested to get all caught back up.  Again my reason for responding was surprise at the smugness.  

[changed]

We may never know about McKenna, but other cases are very real.

[Avatar4321]

5 minutes ago, changed said:

We may never know about McKenna, but other cases are very real.

Ok what cases are real?

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, changed said:

We may never know about McKenna, but other cases are very real.

References please.  You keep putting up vague claims without sources.  Had to tell how much you actually know or are just repeating what you have heard.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, JulieM said:

And wasn’t there another victim who came forward too (or at I remembering wrong?).

No one is coming out of this looking good imo.  This is a sad mess.

Just found this, on Reddit not Facebook.  Not linking, but a search on the name should take one there.

It was claimed she was connected with Denson's lawyer.

Quote

My name is Judith Maria Shellenberger and I was too a victim of Joseph Bishop 35 years ago at the MTC.

I looked up the name and found this on Shades' board which would explain why we haven't heard of this from Denson's lawyer...will keep looking to see if more info:

Quote

Shellenberger was my social experiment, she doesn't exists. I made it all up.

The name comes up in whitepages for a woman in her 60s.  

Edited May 30, 2019 by Calm

[juliann]

3 hours ago, changed said:

 

It all started with her recorded interview of Bishop, in which he admits molesting her - as well as molesting others.  McKenna is not the only one in this case, she is just the most vocal one.  I think the church shouldbe transparent with its records, that it should go to court, that everyone involved should go to court to sort it all out.  

Oh for heaven's sakes. You have dodged the question repeatedly. If you are not going to respond, at least stop answering me to pretend I need to be instructed on what Bishop said.

Has anyone seen any substantiation of Denson's claim of being sexually abused as a child?

[juliann]

On 5/29/2019 at 12:55 PM, Jeanne said:

The coverup will never change.  It is the coverup no matter to what extent.

Yes, to those TBM's here savoring over a delicious meal...I own it   Eating crow for many weeks.  But my heart breaks for trust/faith in humanity on a different level.

What coverup? Are you confusing the legal process for a coverup?

Who here is savoring a delicious meal over this? The only people who are surprised by this for some unkown reason are her supporters. It's old news with a few more details thrown in.

[Avatar4321]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Just found this, on Reddit not Facebook.  Not linking, but a search on the name should take one there.

It was claimed she was connected with Denson's lawyer.

 

Was this before or after Denson's claim