Threat of lawsuit over Church/State and Prop 2.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 11/15/2018 at 10:51 AM, provoman said:

I don't one needs be an anti-mormon to be upset that a supposed representatitve government appears to be unable to act until it essentially instructed by a dominate religion.

I also don't think one needs be an anti-mormon to be upset that a supposed representative government would perpetuate a Nanny State in direct opposition against the will of the people.

I guess you didn't get the message that Prop 2 passed in Utah against the objections of the "dominant religion."  It's called democracy, in which the people vote on their laws.  Did you miss that fact?  You appear to need to invent pretend arguments against the dominant religious group in Utah.  It is a though you think that Utah is a religious dictatorship, even though the evidence indicates otherwise.  Perhaps you also believe that Italy is a Roman Catholic "Nanny State," even though the Vatican is unable to get its way on much legislation.  Do you understand how evidence-based arguments work?  Do you even care?

[Robert F. Smith]

23 hours ago, provoman said:

I am detecting lack of sincerity again. I wont be responding to your posts anymore

A more honest response from you would have been the simple admission that you were wrong or that you misunderstood.  It's called honesty.

[MiserereNobis]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:57 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

Are you also unhappy with the right of the Italian people to vote for laws making it possible to violate the views of the dominant religion in Italy?  Italian women can obtain legal abortions, despite opposition from the Vatican and from the Christian Democratic Party.

Go back even further, when the Italian government made war on the Pope, eventually leading to the creation of Vatican City.

[provoman]

7 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Go back even further, when the Italian government made war on the Pope, eventually leading to the creation of Vatican City.

which isn't relevant to a discussion about a State Government in the United States

[Tacenda]

I'll just put this here. Even the government believes in this stuff, or why did they patent it? 

[MiserereNobis]

19 minutes ago, provoman said:

which isn't relevant to a discussion about a State Government in the United States

It is relevant to Robert's post, since he brought up Italy and the Catholic Church.

[provoman]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I'll just put this here. Even the government believes in this stuff, or why did they patent it? 

awesome post

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Go back even further, when the Italian government made war on the Pope, eventually leading to the creation of Vatican City.

Yes, and Vatican means "oracle, prophecy," which refers to a sui generis state overseen by the Pontifex Maximus.

[provoman]

Here is a portion of the letter Rocky Anderson sent:

"The purpose of The Church of Jesus Christ in forcing the special session is to radically undermine and alter the new law, which garnered majority popular support in the last election (Utah Proposition 2, Medical Marijuana Initiative (2018)). Vastly altering the law mandated by the people is contrary not only to the popular will, but contrary to the intention expressed in the Utah Constitution that the people can, through an initiative, directly exercise their constitutionally guaranteed legislative power."

I see this as a condemnation on the failure of elected representatives to act in their representative duty. 

For context:

Deseret News, September 16, 2018 "SALT LAKE CITY — Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints want the Utah Legislature to legalize medical marijuana in a special session by the end of 2018."

Salt Lake Tribune, September 17, 2018, “Our thinking is that we go through the election, and have a special session one way or the other to make sure that we’ve got this right," Stephens [Marty Stephens, the church’s director of community and government relations] said.

Deseret News, Oct 4, 2018 - Utah Gov. Gary Herbert called for a special session of the Utah Legislature following the election in November

[Jeanne]

As far as I am concerned....the church should not even have their nose in this.  Get out and stay out of it.  Preach to your members and those who tithe but get out of this and anything political.  Just my view...!

[Tacenda]

[USU78]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:47 PM, provoman said:

I think it is clear that I support the ruling of Reynolds. 

I'm puzzled. You don't believe the Free Exercise Clause means what it says?

[Avatar4321]

On 11/15/2018 at 12:29 PM, USU78 said:

"Congress shall make no law ... ."

Amazing how people ignore that.

 

[provoman]

5 hours ago, USU78 said:

I'm puzzled. You don't believe the Free Exercise Clause means what it says?

What does it say? And if you say what I think you want it to say, then it means the Children of Jacob can stone to death their disobedient sons under the protection of the Ten Commandments.

So you tell me what it means.

Edited November 18, 2018 by provoman

[Avatar4321]

2 hours ago, provoman said:

What does it say? And if you say what I think you want it to say, then it means the Children of Jacob can stone to death their disobedient sons under the protection of the Ten Commandments.

So you tell me what it means.

It means Congress shall make no law. Taxes are laws.

[provoman]

53 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

It means Congress shall make no law. Taxes are laws.

Law prohibits the stoning to death a disobedient son.

Edited November 18, 2018 by provoman

[USU78]

4 hours ago, provoman said:

What does it say? And if you say what I think you want it to say, then it means the Children of Jacob can stone to death their disobedient sons under the protection of the Ten Commandments.

So you tell me what it means.

If it means peyote is good, then it must mean I may refuse to bake offensive cakes for abominable rites.

If it means taking bald eagles is good, then it must mean I may marry two or more consenting women.

[RevTestament]

25 minutes ago, USU78 said:

If it means peyote is good, then it must mean I may refuse to bake offensive cakes for abominable rites.

If it means taking bald eagles is good, then it must mean I may marry two or more consenting women.

Coming soon to a theater near you...

fergot... it already came to my TV.

[provoman]

11 hours ago, USU78 said:

If it means peyote is good, then it must mean I may refuse to bake offensive cakes for abominable rites.

If it means taking bald eagles is good, then it must mean I may marry two or more consenting women.

Religious Freedom Restoration Act, should quite easily allow you religious based plural marriage

[USU78]

23 minutes ago, provoman said:

Religious Freedom Restoration Act, should quite easily allow you religious based plural marriage

I'm just pointing out the corruption and utter lack of principled analysis by politicized judiciary.

[RevTestament]

On 11/16/2018 at 7:39 PM, Tacenda said:

I'll just put this here. Even the government believes in this stuff, or why did they patent it? 

Tacenda ran across this. Thought you might be interested:

Similarly, BHB(beta-hydroxybutyric) ketone esters helped to reverse symptoms of Alzheimer's Disease in one clinical case study.

Newport, M.T., VanItallie, T.B., Kashiwaya, Y., King, M.T., and Veech, R.L. (2015). A new way to produce hyperketonemia: use of ketone ester in a case of Alzheimer's disease. Alzheimer's & dementia : the journal of the Alzheimer's Association 11, 99-103.

[carbon dioxide]

On 11/16/2018 at 6:30 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

I guess you didn't get the message that Prop 2 passed in Utah against the objections of the "dominant religion."  It's called democracy, in which the people vote on their laws.  Did you miss that fact?  You appear to need to invent pretend arguments against the dominant religious group in Utah.  It is a though you think that Utah is a religious dictatorship, even though the evidence indicates otherwise.  Perhaps you also believe that Italy is a Roman Catholic "Nanny State," even though the Vatican is unable to get its way on much legislation.  Do you understand how evidence-based arguments work?  Do you even care?

It will be interesting as the % of LDS in Utah decreases over time if the Church is still blamed for all the problems in Utah.  Even today if one adds all the non-members with fully inactive members, that would probably be over 50% of the population yet its the minority population of active LDS that is still blamed for the problems in Utah or the laws that exist by those who actually hold the majority.   I suspect the scapegoating will continue at least of the rest of the day of my life.

Edited November 18, 2018 by carbon dioxide

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

Tacenda ran across this. Thought you might be interested:

Similarly, BHB(beta-hydroxybutyric) ketone esters helped to reverse symptoms of Alzheimer's Disease in one clinical case study.

Newport, M.T., VanItallie, T.B., Kashiwaya, Y., King, M.T., and Veech, R.L. (2015). A new way to produce hyperketonemia: use of ketone ester in a case of Alzheimer's disease. Alzheimer's & dementia : the journal of the Alzheimer's Association 11, 99-103.

Thanks Rev, I'm looking into buying the supplement and trying the Keto diet!

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

It will be interesting as the % of LDS in Utah decreases over time if the Church is still blamed for all the problems in Utah.  Even today if one adds all the non-members with fully inactive members, that would probably be over 50% of the population yet its the minority population of active LDS that is still blamed for the problems in Utah or the laws that exist by those who actually hold the majority.   I suspect the scapegoating will continue at least of the rest of the day of my life.

Well, when 90% of the legislature are LDS then I think that means the LDS church will have control. Our governer even admitted to Utah having the majority be LDS during the press conference this month and it having that effect, watch at the 8:30 mark. https://demosite.utah.gov/governor/2018/11/15/governors-monthly-press-conference-with-kuer-11-15-2018/

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks Rev, I'm looking into buying the supplement and trying the Keto diet!

Another idea:

Dr. Steven Masley, at http://drmasley.com/dr-masley/whats-scariest-disease-today/?inf_contact_key=f894ff3c63d60b5a7e36b5d831bc9c72b733be708d6bb51c57425d1401acf24f ,
“If you can’t treat Alzheimer’s disease, then how do you prevent it?  We have recently discovered that the most important intervention is to achieve optimal blood sugar and insulin control.  Your fasting blood sugar should be less than 95 mg/dL and your fasting insulin level less than 5 mIU/ml.”