Saints Manual - Word of Wisdom

[tulip]

Saints Manual  - Chapter 15

When Joseph took the matter to the Lord, he received a revelation—a “word of wisdom for the benefit of the Saints in these last days.”²⁶ In it, the Lord cautioned His people against consuming alcohol, declaring that distilled liquor was for washing their bodies while wine was for occasions like the sacrament. He also warned them against tobacco and hot drinks.

The Lord emphasized a healthy diet, encouraging the Saints to eat grains, herbs, and fruits and to consume meat sparingly. He promised blessings of health, knowledge, and strength to those who chose to obey.²⁷

The revelation had been declared not as a commandment but as a caution. Many people would find it hard to give up using these powerful substances, and Joseph did not insist on strict conformity. He continued to drink alcohol occasionally, and he and Emma sometimes drank coffee and tea.²⁸

 

^{Church admits that Joseph Smith did not follow the word of wisdom.  What do you think?}

[Calm]

 Pretty well known, imo.  

The usual thinking is God gave members time to adapt, get used to the idea.  I think it is more it wasn't needed as a covenant for the people yet.  They had enough other binding them in community with God.  During that time it is like other individual commandments we are provided in general with for personal growth, but not community building (think scripture reading and prayer vs. attending meetings and baptism) But in time something else was needed to replace some of the previous dynamics that solidified the faith community, especially as it spread out, something easily identifiable and concrete and simple in the sense of knowing what needed to be done and it moved from wisdom to commandment.

There were some pretty good financial reasons to start pushing it as well as social  

[bluebell]

6 hours ago, tulip said:

Saints Manual  - Chapter 15

When Joseph took the matter to the Lord, he received a revelation—a “word of wisdom for the benefit of the Saints in these last days.”²⁶ In it, the Lord cautioned His people against consuming alcohol, declaring that distilled liquor was for washing their bodies while wine was for occasions like the sacrament. He also warned them against tobacco and hot drinks.

The Lord emphasized a healthy diet, encouraging the Saints to eat grains, herbs, and fruits and to consume meat sparingly. He promised blessings of health, knowledge, and strength to those who chose to obey.²⁷

The revelation had been declared not as a commandment but as a caution. Many people would find it hard to give up using these powerful substances, and Joseph did not insist on strict conformity. He continued to drink alcohol occasionally, and he and Emma sometimes drank coffee and tea.²⁸

 

^{Church admits that Joseph Smith did not follow the word of wisdom.  What do you think?}

I thought it was well known that JS and others did not follow the word of wisdom the same way we do now. 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I thought it was well known that JS and others did not follow the word of wisdom the same way we do now. 

 

7 hours ago, Calm said:

 Pretty well known, imo.  

The usual thinking is God gave members time to adapt, get used to the idea.  I think it is more it wasn't needed as a covenant for the people yet.  They had enough other binding them in community with God.  During that time it is like other individual commandments we are provided in general with for personal growth, but not community building (think scripture reading and prayer vs. attending meetings and baptism) But in time something else was needed to replace some of the previous dynamics that solidified the faith community, especially as it spread out, something easily identifiable and concrete and simple in the sense of knowing what needed to be done and it moved from wisdom to commandment.

There were some pretty good financial reasons to start pushing it as well as social  

I wasn't aware of Emma and Joseph drinking coffee and tea after the WoW was implemented. I was only aware of Joseph drinking alcohol.

[Calm]

I am sure there are many who do not know.  My sibling didn't know the story of David and Goliath as a late teen even though I read it many times in a couple of biblical stories books we had as a kid, including one that had even been given to her.  Well known does not imply universally known.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Calm

[tulip]

It was a commandment and then it was switched to advisory,   but you think the prophet would have obeyed it the best.    In the Joseph Smith papers, it also says that he drank beer in Nauvoo.   

I believe in the Book of Mormon, but Joseph sure was a hypocrite of a leader.   

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, tulip said:

It was a commandment and then it was switched to advisory,   but you think the prophet would have obeyed it the best.    In the Joseph Smith papers, it also says that he drank beer in Nauvoo.   

I believe in the Book of Mormon, but Joseph sure was a hypocrite of a leader.   

 

The revelation specifically says (verse 2) that it wasn’t given as a commandment, so I’m not sure what you mean?

[woo-sow856]

Hi tulip, I agree with you that the type of substances condemned in the Word of Wisdom can be hard for many to give up, and that there are certain benefits to some of them (note that I say some, not all of them).  While I think the W. of W. should be treated as a commandment, I think the reason behind it is due more to imperfections in the way this was implemented into the church more so than there being something inherently wrong with tea, coffee, etc.  I say imperfections because experience has told me that the W.ofW. is not uniform across the world.  Whereas in the U.S. we have received explicit counsel from the general authorities that use of caffeine IS acceptable, there are areas of the world where the culture in the church does not allow it and would consider abstinence from caffeine a part of being considered worthy for a temple recommend (My wife happens to be from one of these countries, and I did my mission there and frequently interact from people from that area that have confirmed this).  Think of it-if the W.ofW. was meant to be a reflection of what God does or does not want us to consume, wouldn't the commandment be consistent across the world?  That being said, following authority in the church should require compliance with the rule until they say otherwise.

As an individual with family members have been into alcohol before, for whom detaching themselves from their fondness of that lifestyle seems to require a lifelong quest with constant struggle in choosing to refrain, I cannot hear about the benefits people feel in that type of lifestyle without wondering why God would want us to forego those pleasures.

I have come to believe that it's not the pleasure associated with it that is offensive to God, but instead the risk of inviting negative effects upon ourselves or our loved ones.  I believe that God could one day reinstate these behaviors (and note that I say reinstate because there were definitely points in time where, for example, wine was not forbidden among believers.  We only have to look as far as the sacrament prayer in the Book of Mormon to know that).  It is possible for God to one day make those behaviors acceptable in a way that lets us get around the negative consequences.  And for the sake of my family members that  enjoy that lifestyle, I hope that's the case.  Yet for now, where we don't have ways of getting around all the ill effects and also don't have the same authority as the church leaders who implemented this rule, I believe it's in our best interest for now to look at the Word of Wisdom as a trial of our faith. 

[Storm Rider]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I wasn't aware of Emma and Joseph drinking coffee and tea after the WoW was implemented. I was only aware of Joseph drinking alcohol.

 

Yes, they did continue to drink such, just as the pioneers drank coffee on their journies west. The WofW being used to enter the temple did not occur until after 1920.

Tulip, I think you are trying to create a problem where none exists. The WofW clearly was given on an advisory basis - just read the text - "not by commandment". 

George Albert Smith, while serving as an apostle dealt with some difficult emotional issues. While residing in a home on the beach to recuperate from one period, a member of the First Presidency brought him a case of beer to assist him in his recovery. This was about the mid-1910 to- 1920 period. 

I still wish that we observed what the scriptures actually say and if it needs to be amended then amend the scripture rather than conflict with it without explanation directly from the Lord. 

[strappinglad]

After reading the OT especially Numbers, I am very happy to be asked to avoid only about 4 items and asked to use a few general items. Talk about picky !!

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Yes, they did continue to drink such, just as the pioneers drank coffee on their journies west. The WofW being used to enter the temple did not occur until after 1920.

Tulip, I think you are trying to create a problem where none exists. The WofW clearly was given on an advisory basis - just read the text - "not by commandment". 

George Albert Smith, while serving as an apostle dealt with some difficult emotional issues. While residing in a home on the beach to recuperate from one period, a member of the First Presidency brought him a case of beer to assist him in his recovery. This was about the mid-1910 to- 1920 period. 

I still wish that we observed what the scriptures actually say and if it needs to be amended then amend the scripture rather than conflict with it without explanation directly from the Lord. 

I wonder why Joseph refused alcohol to drink for pain when he was operated on as a child but not later? Could that story be more a myth? I've wondered about this often.

[Calm]

They probably wanted him to get drunk, not just take a few sips, I am thinking.  Seems like that is the only way it would have helped.   Maybe even go so far as to black out.  He might have been aware he would be quite sick afterwards and thought that would be both uncomfortable and unkind to his mother, since she would probably be the one cleaning up.

He was extremely concerned about his mother, iirc, and he may have been worried drinking would cause him to lose control and scream in pain which would have caused her pain in his view.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Calm

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I wonder why Joseph refused alcohol to drink for pain when he was operated on as a child but not later? Could that story be more a myth? I've wondered about this often.

Other religions believed in prohibition, even back then. The idea that people of God wouldn’t drink alcohol doesn’t originate with our religion. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_alcohol

[cinepro]

19 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I wonder why Joseph refused alcohol to drink for pain when he was operated on as a child but not later? Could that story be more a myth? I've wondered about this often.

Interestingly, I looked into this a while back and couldn't find a single time that a church publication used the story of the leg operation in the context of the Word of Wisdom.  It was only used as an example of Joseph being brave.  So I think Church members see the part about him not drinking alcohol and make a connection, but I don't know that the Church has ever overtly pushed the idea that it's related.

[tulip]

Advisory or commandment,  the prophets should have obeyed the counsel in the revelation.   None of these prophets would receive a temple recommend today.

 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, tulip said:

Advisory or commandment,  the prophets should have obeyed the counsel in the revelation.   None of these prophets would receive a temple recommend today.

 

This assumes they wouldn't have changed their behaviour.  Considering other things they sacrificed and endured, I think the more likely scenario is if they lived today they would all have recommends.

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, tulip said:

Advisory or commandment,  the prophets should have obeyed the counsel in the revelation.   None of these prophets would receive a temple recommend today.

 

I think your reaction is usually called presentism.  It's no sin that past prophets did not interpret the WoW the same way that we have in the last few decades.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, tulip said:

Advisory or commandment,  the prophets should have obeyed the counsel in the revelation.   None of these prophets would receive a temple recommend today.

 

And many of us would balk at the idea of leaving our spouse and children and going on an overseas mission for 3 to 7 years like they did back then.

We live under the commandments of our day, not those of the past or future. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by The Nehor