Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Vance said: ?????? So, if the police don't stop a crime it is no longer a crime? Was there force, and was there a crime?
Jeanne Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, bluebell said: It does have a direct connection to the gospel of Christ though, and the discussion of what the moral stance of a Christian should be in regards to immigration. That seems very relevant to the board. This is okay...but as a non member..I didn't feel like I could partcicipate.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Medicaid and Medicare are still the warp and woof of American healthcare, with supplemental plans from the health insurance companies. That has always been part of Romneycare/Obamacare. You missed my point. Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Then why the large effort by Trump to destroy the ACA? Of course he lied. Nope, he promised to eliminate it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/12/heres-why-trump-is-already-waffling-on-obamacare/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e2954db3d48b Quote President-elect Donald Trump is already signaling that he might backpedal on his promise to repeal the Affordable Care Act, telling the Wall Street Journal Friday that he’d consider hanging onto popular Obamacare provisions such as “the prohibition against insurers denying coverage because of patients’ existing conditions, and a provision that allows parents to provide years of additional coverage for children on their insurance policies.” The only "lie" is that he is back pedaling on his promise to repeal it. Be that as it may. It is congress that has prevented him from keeping his promise to repeal it. Remember John McCain rushing from the hospital bed to Washington to thumb his nose at the President by voting against repeal (in violation of McCain's promise to the people of Arizona).
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Was there force, and was there a crime? Yes, and yes.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 14 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: These are not invasions. Why do you insist on using military jargon? These are not military matters, nor home invasions. Your personal decision is not at issue in border security matters. The armed forces of Mexico and the USA presumably have power to stop the caravan -- if it is the intention of either govt. Allowing a caravan to proceed does not constitute an invasion, but is a policy decision of a govt. Do we really want to mischaracterize such matters? What advantage does that give us? Let’s go back to my home-invasion analogy (and “invasion” is not strictly a military term). Suppose, in my resistance to your intrusion, I decline to use lethal weapons or aggressive bodily force to keep you out because I don’t want to risk killing or injuring you. That does not negate the fact that I have resisted your intrusion nor the fact that you have used force to get in.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 24 minutes ago, halconero said: Please understand where I'm coming from. I have no problem with discomfort regarding Soros' funding of various Democratic/Liberal initiatives. That said, as someone with a very good ear to the ground on immigration and national security policy, the word "Soros" has very quickly taken on the same character as old anti-semitic tropes regarding an international cabal of Jewish bankers, financiers, and influencers acting as the world's puppet masters. If it has done so, it has been invisible to me. In all the news reports and commentary I’ve seen unfavorable to Soros, I’ve never seen even an oblique reference to his being Jewish. As I said, I didn’t even know it until I saw you bring it up today. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 30 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: The ACA is a carbon copy of Gov Mitt Romney's bipartisan health plan in Massachusetts. Trump supported the ACA in his run for office, promising that one could keep it, and that preexisting conditions would be honored. Whose lie are we going to examine? What are you talking about? Trump hated Obamacare, called it “horrible.” He said repeatedly to cheering crowds: “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare.”
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Please curb the personal attacks. I agree. Robert, please don't make this personal with Scott. Sometimes we disagree, though I always admire his integrity. 3
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Vance said: Posting YouTube videos doesn't address my critique of your argument that the word "socialism" in the official Nazi party name means that the Nazis were socialist. You also haven't addressed other critiques of mine, such as the bias in your source or your use of logical fallacies.
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 34 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: These are not invasions. Why do you insist on using military jargon? I agree that the military jargon needs to be dropped. They are not an army and this is not an invasion. One could still vehemently oppose offering asylum to the group without having to use those terms. Those terms are loaded, because of their military connotations, and serve to skew the issue. 1
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 32 minutes ago, Vance said: How about Trumps lie that democrats agitators infiltrated Trump rallies? https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/18/undercover-video-shows-democrats-saying-they-hire-/ Red herring. You sure like smoked fish, dontcha?
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 And the thread is going to be closed (rightfully so) in 3....2....1.... (hoping to get the last post in!) 1
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, MiserereNobis said: Posting YouTube videos doesn't address my critique of your argument that the word "socialism" in the official Nazi party name means that the Nazis were socialist. ???? If you can't or won't engage the material provided doesn't an argument make. Just now, MiserereNobis said: You also haven't addressed other critiques of mine, such as the bias in your source or your use of logical fallacies. When you move away from Constitutional government toward Socialism (whether National or not) you are moving toward tyranny. Just because someone is opposed to socialism doesn't make them opposed to liberty. And just because someone is for individual liberty and rights doesn't make them "right wing". 1
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I agree that the military jargon needs to be dropped. They are not an army and this is not an invasion. One could still vehemently oppose offering asylum to the group without having to use those terms. Those terms are loaded, because of their military connotations, and serve to skew the issue. I disagree. They are not a caravan. They are a mob, an army. They do plan on invading our country. They have stated as much. They were not invited and they are not welcome. They have no legal right to come here without our permission. 2
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vance said: ???? If you can't or won't engage the material provided doesn't an argument make. When you move away from Constitutional government toward Socialism (whether National or not) you are moving toward tyranny. Just because someone is opposed to socialism doesn't make them opposed to liberty. And just because someone is for individual liberty and rights doesn't make them "right wing". Vance, When you show up here, you always seem to be looking solely to argue and not in the rhetorical sense, much like the people who make comments on online news articles. I suppose there's entertainment to be had with it. That's my perception, and if I'm wrong, then I apologize. In any case, I've decided not to engage any more on this topic with you. You can have the last word (though I was hoping to get the last post in... I can't believe this thread has lasted this long, lol). See you on the next Trinity thread +PAX+ MN
Calm Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: And the thread is going to be closed (rightfully so) in 3....2....1.... (hoping to get the last post in!) Let us hope this post doesn't go through. Sigh, it did. Edited October 29, 2018 by Calm
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 15 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Posting YouTube videos doesn't address my critique of your argument that the word "socialism" in the official Nazi party name means that the Nazis were socialist. You also haven't addressed other critiques of mine, such as the bias in your source or your use of logical fallacies. Both Socialism and National Socialism feature the State control of goods, production, and services. There isn't enough of a difference between them to place them at opposite ends of the political spectrum. 1
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Is any of Trumps rhetoric worse than these? https://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2017/06/15/20-liberal-calls-for-violence-against-conservatives-in-quotes-n2341401
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I agree that the military jargon needs to be dropped. They are not an army and this is not an invasion. One could still vehemently oppose offering asylum to the group without having to use those terms. Those terms are loaded, because of their military connotations, and serve to skew the issue. I see no reason to be in any way concerned over this caravan. None of them need to be permitted asylum, and probably won't, even if it were justified. This is merely a ploy to distract from legitimate issues in the current midterm political campaign -- which has become so ferocious and ultra-partisan. No doubt Satan loves the emotion and rage on both sides.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: What are you talking about? Trump hated Obamacare, called it “horrible.” He said repeatedly to cheering crowds: “We are going to repeal and replace Obamacare.” Well, then, why didn't Trump keep his promises on healathcase? Quote Trump repeatedly promised that he would cover all Americans when given the chance to repeal and replace Obamacare. He stated that coverage for everyone was "just human decency" back in February of 2016. By then, he had already promised universal coverage. When he was a presidential candidate in 2015, Trump told CBS's Scott Pelley on 60 Minutes that "everybody's got to be covered." He conceded that it may be an "un-Republican" thing to say, but he wanted to ensure that everyone had quality health care. "I am going to take care of everybody. I don't care if it costs me votes or not," Trump said. He added: "The government's gonna pay for it." More recently, as president-elect, Trump reiterated his support for the idea in January. "We're going to have insurance for everybody," he said in an interview with The Washington Post. "There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can't pay for it, you don't get it. That's not going to happen with us." https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/24/politics/trump-health-care-promises/index.html . Edited October 29, 2018 by Robert F. Smith
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 33 minutes ago, Vance said: I disagree. They are not a caravan. They are a mob, an army. They do plan on invading our country. They have stated as much. They were not invited and they are not welcome. They have no legal right to come here without our permission. Every statement false. 2
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Well, then, why didn't Trump keep his promises on healathcase? He can't do it alone, he is not a dictator. Congress passed it and must be involved in its repeal. Don't you remember this? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782664/john-mccain-legacy-obamacare-repeal-thumbs-down You can blame the dead John McCain for preventing its repeal.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 26 minutes ago, Vance said: Both Socialism and National Socialism feature the State control of goods, production, and services. There isn't enough of a difference between them to place them at opposite ends of the political spectrum. AS Milovan Djilas pointed out correctly decades ago, that is a description of state capitalism. You are controlled by oligarchs and don't even realize it.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Vance said: He can't do it alone, he is not a dictator. Congress passed it and must be involved in its repeal. Don't you remember this? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782664/john-mccain-legacy-obamacare-repeal-thumbs-down You can blame the dead John McCain for preventing its repeal. John McCain, one of the few honest men left in D.C., voted no because there was no "replace" in "repeal and replace." 2
bluebell Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: In the assertion that this political discussion “has a direct connection to the gospel of Christ” and the insinuation that those who oppose an open or pourous national border do not thereby behave in a manner consistent with said gospel. Where exactly in what I said to you did I insinuate the bolder part? 1
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