Scott Lloyd Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bluebell said: It does have a direct connection to the gospel of Christ though, and the discussion of what the moral stance of a Christian should be in regards to immigration. That seems very relevant to the board. One could rationalize a whole lot of political discussion by claiming “a direct connection to the gospel of Christ.” And with respect, I say this comment reflects the very thing I’m talking about: the a priori attitude that disapproval of or alarm at the caravan, whatever the reasoning, is inconsistent with following Christ. It reminds me of the heartlanders who call into question the faithfulness of Church members who don’t hold to the heartlanders’ theory of Book of Mormon geography. Edited October 28, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
The Nehor Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 23 minutes ago, Vance said: The mob has been joined/infiltrated by MS13 thugs and cartels to take advantage of this opportunity to smuggle children into the U.S. as sex slaves. No offer by Mexico will be accepted because it would defeat the intended outcome of the evil ones. And you are a demon possessing the body of a small girl who is typing this rubbish to confuse us and distract us from a lucrative investment opportunity in South American zinc. I give your statement and my statement about equal odds of being accurate and both are equally supported by the facts.
bluebell Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 I was just reading that the application process to become a US citizen has gone from 6 months to 2+ years in some states since Trump took office. It's also worth noting that a person can not apply to become a citizen unless they are living in the United States. "To become an American citizen, immigrants must hold green cards for at least three years, demonstrate good moral character and pass English and civics tests." Wait times to citizenship... It can take 10 years or more to get a green card, if a person qualifies for one. The US rejects 8-10% of green card applications overall but it largely depends on where the person lives. 90% of Canadian green card applications are accepted while only 66% from Latin America are accepted. US Green Cards.... 3
MiserereNobis Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, Vance said: Why would you doubt that evil men would take this opportunity to do their evil deeds? Asking for your source doesn't mean I am doubting or not doubting. A CFR means I'm not taking it at face value and want some support. Or are you suggesting that we should just take everything at face value and not ask for some facts to back things up? 1
bluebell Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: And with respect, I say this comment reflects the very thing I’m talking about: the a priori attitude that disapproval of or alarm at the caravan, whatever the reasoning, is inconsistent with following Christ. It reminds me of the heartlanders who call into question the faithfulness of Church members who don’t hold to the heartlanders’ theory of Book of Mormon geography. Where did I say anything like the bolded statement in my comment to you?
Robert F. Smith Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 30 minutes ago, Vance said: The mob has been joined/infiltrated by MS13 thugs and cartels to take advantage of this opportunity to smuggle children into the U.S. as sex slaves. No offer by Mexico will be accepted because it would defeat the intended outcome of the evil ones. The caravan of families is attempting to escape gangs such as Mara Salvatrucha 13, which does indeed traffick their children, as do the cartels. However, it is not possible for MS 13 to smuggle children into the USA by that means. ICE doesn't permit it. Even regular, authentic families are arrested by ICE and held for long periods, the children being separated from their parents (and their parents forced into deportation, while the children remain in the care of ICE and other govt agencies). MS 13 cannot get past the govt DNA tests.. Not only are these children destroyed by being held like criminals without parents (being raped and brutalized by the older children), but then they are farmed out to foster care -- if relatives cannot be found. Only Federal officials motivated by pure evil would conduct such a corrupt system. MS 13 kidnaps and trafficks children already in the USA, while govt officials look the other way. No sincere effort is being made to eliminate MS 13. A lot of talk, but no action. Typical of the current admin.
Vance Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: The caravan of families is attempting to escape gangs such as Mara Salvatrucha 13, which does indeed traffick their children, as do the cartels. However, it is not possible for MS 13 to smuggle children into the USA by that means. ICE doesn't permit it. Not currently, BUT what if they think that if the mob is large enough, they will be unstoppable at the border? If they are willing to perpetrate violence at the border to get in, will the US be willing to respond in kind to protect the border from penetration? 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Even regular, authentic families are arrested by ICE and held for long periods, the children being separated from their parents (and their parents forced into deportation, while the children remain in the care of ICE and other govt agencies). MS 13 cannot get past the govt DNA tests.. Not only are these children destroyed by being held like criminals without parents (being raped and brutalized by the older children), but then they are farmed out to foster care -- if relatives cannot be found. Only Federal officials motivated by pure evil would conduct such a corrupt system. The proper way to seek asylum in the US is to apply for it WITHIN the country of origin. NOT at the border. This is just a ploy to overwhelm the system and force a short cut to the process. 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: MS 13 kidnaps and trafficks children already in the USA, while govt officials look the other way. No sincere effort is being made to eliminate MS 13. A lot of talk, but no action. Typical of the current admin. Better control of our border certainly would help reduce some of their activity. Truly more could and should be done.
Vance Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Asking for your source doesn't mean I am doubting or not doubting. ????? OF COURSE you doubted. You could have done some research on your own. 16 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: A CFR means I'm not taking it at face value and want some support. In other word, you doubted. 16 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Or are you suggesting that we should just take everything at face value and not ask for some facts to back things up? Not at all. But you could have done your own research.
MiserereNobis Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Vance said: Not at all. But you could have done your own research. Sure, but you made the claim so I asked you to back it up. You make the claim, you do the research, you give it to your readers. Pretty standard stuff, especially on a board that has CFR enshrined in its rules. Anyways, we don't need go off on a tangent here. Thank you for providing a source, biased as it was 3
Robert F. Smith Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Vance said: Not currently, BUT what if they think that if the mob is large enough, they will be unstoppable at the border? If they are willing to perpetrate violence at the border to get in, will the US be willing to respond in kind to protect the border from penetration? You keep using the word "mob." There is no mob, and your notion that they could storm the border is totally false. Another fake Trumpism. 3 minutes ago, Vance said: The proper way to seek asylum in the US is to apply for it WITHIN the country of origin. NOT at the border. This is just a ploy to overwhelm the system and force a short cut to the process. It is perfectly legal to seek asylum at the border. It is not at all a violation of law. 3 minutes ago, Vance said: Better control of our border certainly would help reduce some of their activity. Truly more could and should be done. Our border is well controlled and has been for many years. Where do you get these completely false claims? MS 13 needs to be controlled by law enforcement in the local jurisdictions where they reside and commit their crimes. The govt generally ignores MS 13 and makes no real effort to root them out. Cowardice and ignorance in govt from the President on down is the main problem.
Vance Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 Just now, MiserereNobis said: Sure, but you made the claim so I asked you to back it up. Because you doubted it. Just now, MiserereNobis said: You make the claim, you do the research, you give it to your readers. Pretty standard stuff, especially on a board that has CFR enshrined in its rules. Anyways, we don't need go off on a tangent here. Thank you for providing a source, biased as it was ???? Biased? Oh, I get it now. Yes, it was biased toward the facts. Facts that will NOT be mentioned in the mainstream BIASED media.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, bluebell said: Where did I say anything like the bolded statement in my comment to you? In the assertion that this political discussion “has a direct connection to the gospel of Christ” and the insinuation that those who oppose an open or pourous national border do not thereby behave in a manner consistent with said gospel.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 5 hours ago, Glenn101 said: There are some legitimate questions about who is financing this caravan as the logistics of keeping all of those people nourished day after day has to be a daunting and expensive task. George Soros' name has been bandied about, not because he is a Jew, but because he has not been bashful in supporting so called liberal. mostly Democratic causes and campaigns. That being said, in my opinion, it is unwise to subscribe to conspiracy theories about just who is financing the caravan. The truth will eventually come out. Personally I believe that if Soros was financing that caravan he would be proud of the fact and let everyone know about it. Glenn It is completely illegitimate to list Soros as bankrolling the caravan. He is not. Moreover, this is merely another fake Trumpism designed to put a target on the backs of his opponents so that his followers will go out and make bombs to mail to those very targets, or to go out and get a sniper rifle and get rid of these horrible "enemies of the people." The Brown Shirts are listening carefully to their Fuhrer for orders. Kristallnacht is coming soon.
Vance Posted October 28, 2018 Posted October 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: You keep using the word "mob." There is no mob, and your notion that they could storm the border is totally false. Another fake Trumpism. You keep using the word "caravan". There is no caravan, and you notion that they can't storm the border is totally false. Another fake anti Trumpism. See, it can work the other way too. 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: It is perfectly legal to seek asylum at the border. It is not at all a violation of law. Sure, and that is why the children have to be separated from the adults (who, sometimes are NOT their parents) until it can be determined that they really are the parents and not just someone trying to human traffic. If it is done the the country of origin, where it should be, then things go better. 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Our border is well controlled and has been for many years. Yes, yes, and that is why there are estimates of over 11 MILLION illegal ALIENS within our borders. 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Where do you get these completely false claims? What claim was false? 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: MS 13 needs to be controlled by law enforcement in the local jurisdictions where they reside and commit their crimes. They cross back and forth across the border. Almost at will. It is not just a local problem. 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: The govt generally ignores MS 13 and makes no real effort to root them out. Cowardice and ignorance in govt from the President on down is the main problem. I am not disagreeing with you on that. But better control of the border would help with curtailing their criminal activity.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: It is completely illegitimate to list Soros as bankrolling the caravan. He is not. Until it is know where the funding is coming from, it is premature to eliminate him from the lists of suspects.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Time will tell, I suppose. But if the group forced its way into Mexico, why wouldn’t it try to force its way into the United States? Did they in fact "force" their way into Mexico? Some did try swimming a river when blocked on a bridge. Was that force? Or was it desperation? Is it even possible to force one's way across the U.S. - Mexcco border? I think not. That is a fairy tale. Mexico has a large and well-armed army. They can (if they wish) prevent the caravan from moving even one inch. Mexican officials no doubt want to see the caravan reach the U.S. border, if only to embarrass the idiot who currently occupies La Casa Blanca.
MiserereNobis Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vance said: ???? Biased? Um, yeah, it is biased and blatantly so. That doesn't necessarily mean that the facts are inaccurate, it just means that the way they are being presented is meant to favor a certain position. Can you not really see that..? Ok, it's English class time. From the source you used: "The only way to prevent future caravans is exactly how President Trump and his administration is handling this one – with strong actions protecting America’s sovereignty." Assignment time: 1) What is the bias in this sentence? 2) What word choices of the author show this bias? 3) How could this sentence be rewritten to remove bias? Here's the cheat sheet for ya: 1) It openly agrees with President Trump on an issue that is politically controversial, thus siding with the President and losing neutrality. 2) "only way" and "exactly" show 100% support for the President and cast the situation as a black-and-white, us vs. them, no middle ground issue. The words "strong," "protecting," and "sovereignty" have positive connotations -- they are not neutral towards the subject and are words/phrases that President Trump and his supporters often use. 3) President Trump and his administration claim that the only way to prevent future caravans is to use what they call strong actions that will allegedly protect American sovereignty. 1
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: or to go out and get a sniper rifle and get rid of these horrible "enemies of the people." The Brown Shirts are listening carefully to their Fuhrer for orders. Kristallnacht is coming soon. You mean like that guy who shot at those republican congressmen, and nearly killed one of them? Guys like that? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Vance said: Until it is know where the funding is coming from, it is premature to eliminate him from the lists of suspects. Far more likely is it that Trump is bankrolling the caravan. He has the best motive: He needs a distraction for the coming midterm election. He needs to whip his base into a false frenzy. He has studied the "big lie" technique of his fellow German, Adolf Hitler.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Did they in fact "force" their way into Mexico? ???? You weren't aware of this fact? You need a better source for news. Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Mexico has a large and well-armed army. They can (if they wish) prevent the caravan from moving even one inch. If this approach would be acceptable for the Mexicans, why not the US? After all, a 7000 strong army is on approach with the stated intention of invading the US.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Did they in fact "force" their way into Mexico? Some did try swimming a river when blocked on a bridge. Was that force? Or was it desperation? Is it even possible to force one's way across the U.S. - Mexcco border? I think not. That is a fairy tale. Mexico has a large and well-armed army. They can (if they wish) prevent the caravan from moving even one inch. Mexican officials no doubt want to see the caravan reach the U.S. border, if only to embarrass the idiot who currently occupies La Casa Blanca. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/19/americas/caravan-mexico-border/index.html
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Robert F. Smith said: Far more likely is it that Trump is bankrolling the caravan. He has the best motive: He needs a distraction for the coming midterm election. He needs to whip his base into a false frenzy. He has studied the "big lie" technique of his fellow German, Adolf Hitler. Big lie? As in "if you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan"?
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vance said: You mean like that guy who shot at those republican congressmen, and nearly killed one of them? Guys like that? Actually, congressmen of both parties were present at that friendly baseball game. Most of the killers or wannabe "brown shirts" are from the totalitarian Right, like the murderer in Charlottesville.
Vance Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/19/americas/caravan-mexico-border/index.html WOW!! A lot of young military age men in that army.
Robert F. Smith Posted October 29, 2018 Posted October 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Vance said: Big lie? As in "if you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan"? Yep. a big Trump lie.
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