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WOW and alcohol - New Study Finds no safe level


Glenn101

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I think any minimal benefits of drinking alcohol could be easily achieved and exceeded by other means like diet and exercise. Even if it's a "high" you're looking for, try going for a long walk in a beautiful forest. Or practice mindfulness. Much better "high" with no nasty side effects.

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5 hours ago, Gray said:

The Word of Wisdom endorses moderate alcohol consumption.

Don't see that.

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5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

And even that for use in sacrament has been abandoned in the favor of water.

 

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1 hour ago, Gray said:

Whether abandoned or not, it's still in the Word of Wisdom. Also, mild barley drinks (beer)

You are correct on that point. The interpretaion to abstain from all alcoholic beverages came later. Incrementaly more restrictive.

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On 8/26/2018 at 12:33 PM, The Nehor said:

If the Word of Wisdom is such a great law generally why has only this dispensation gotten it? And why is it pretty clearly temporary?

Not sure if I buy this.

Someone should have told Christ what a sinner he was creating wine out of water so some wedding guests could have more to drink...

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On 8/24/2018 at 2:21 PM, Glenn101 said:

Don't see that.

And even that for use in sacrament has been abandoned in the favor of water.

 

Wine is still permitted for sacrament.  It was neither forbidden nor abandoned.  There were just restrictions placed on which wine was to be used. 

 

3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;
            4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

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38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Wine is still permitted for sacrament.  It was neither forbidden nor abandoned.  There were just restrictions placed on which wine was to be used. 

 

3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;
            4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.

Did not say it was forbidden. Okay, maybe not "abandoned" per se but the use of wine has been deprecated and the use of water recommended as it is more universally available.

But to my point, as one poster has noted, alcohol was implicitly allowed in small amounts by the original Word of Wisdom. Even after the Word of Wisdom was accepted as a commandment there was no complete restriction on the use of alcohol. Proscription of the consumption of coffee, tea, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco use was incremental among the members of the church, with an eventual move decades ago to complete abstinence. In the intervening years there have been multiple studies that showed some benefits for moderate alcohol consumption. This new, massive study shows the wisdom of the Word of Wisdom and the apostles that have led us into more complete adherence to the spirit of the Word of Wisdom.

Glenn

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1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

Did not say it was forbidden. Okay, maybe not "abandoned" per se but the use of wine has been deprecated and the use of water recommended as it is more universally available.

But to my point, as one poster has noted, alcohol was implicitly allowed in small amounts by the original Word of Wisdom. Even after the Word of Wisdom was accepted as a commandment there was no complete restriction on the use of alcohol. Proscription of the consumption of coffee, tea, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco use was incremental among the members of the church, with an eventual move decades ago to complete abstinence. In the intervening years there have been multiple studies that showed some benefits for moderate alcohol consumption. This new, massive study shows the wisdom of the Word of Wisdom and the apostles that have led us into more complete adherence to the spirit of the Word of Wisdom.

Glenn

Are you of the belief that Christ and the Apostles operated with less wisdom since they did not adhere to the principles in the Word of Wisdom to the same degree the Church does today?

That Christ at the wedding at Cana was operating under less light than we have from our modern prophets?

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25 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:
1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

Did not say it was forbidden. Okay, maybe not "abandoned" per se but the use of wine has been deprecated and the use of water recommended as it is more universally available.

But to my point, as one poster has noted, alcohol was implicitly allowed in small amounts by the original Word of Wisdom. Even after the Word of Wisdom was accepted as a commandment there was no complete restriction on the use of alcohol. Proscription of the consumption of coffee, tea, alcoholic beverages, and tobacco use was incremental among the members of the church, with an eventual move decades ago to complete abstinence. In the intervening years there have been multiple studies that showed some benefits for moderate alcohol consumption. This new, massive study shows the wisdom of the Word of Wisdom and the apostles that have led us into more complete adherence to the spirit of the Word of Wisdom.

Glenn

Are you of the belief that Christ and the Apostles operated with less wisdom since they did not adhere to the principles in the Word of Wisdom to the same degree the Church does today?

That Christ at the wedding at Cana was operating under less light than we have from our modern prophets?

Not saying anything about Christ and His apostles. Christ gave the Children of Israel their own version of a word of wisdom encoded in the Mosaic law which was still operational until Christ fulfilled it with His atonement. I am just talking about the here and now and the Wisdom of the Word of Wisdom which Christ gave us for out time. Noting the warning in verse 4:

Quote

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

Now, what is your point?

Edited by Glenn101
Added an additional thought.
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7 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Not saying anything about Christ and His apostles. Christ gave the Children of Israel their own version of a word of wisdom encoded in the Mosaic law which was still operational until Christ fulfilled it with His atonement. I am just talking about the here and now and the Wisdom of the Word of Wisdom which Christ gave us for out time. Noting the warning in verse 4:

Now, what is your point?

My point is the idea that the prophets were inspired to outright ban all alcohol would imply that drinking any alcohol is always either harmful or sinful.

Knowing of the actions of our Savior would show that to be false. Therefore the reasons for the total ban are generally unknown.

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49 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

My point is the idea that the prophets were inspired to outright ban all alcohol would imply that drinking any alcohol is always either harmful or sinful.

Knowing of the actions of our Savior would show that to be false. Therefore the reasons for the total ban are generally unknown.

You are talking about different times and conditions, which I tried to point out implicitly in previous post. There is a reason, or maybe several reasons for the Mosaic law dietary restrictions given by Christ which are not needed today. When there is no prohibition against alcohol consumption it would follow that it is not necessarily a sin to imbibe, but it possibly could be sinful if taken to excess. Yet the scriptures do not note any condemnation of Noah by God for getting drunk.

When it comes to the Savior, I would expect that He knew what any safe levels of alcohol would have been in his day, although that is not a given because Jesus did not receive of a "fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;" (D&C 93:13). There may have been conditions existing in ages past where moderate alcoholic consumption was more beneficial than the other risks. I don't know.

As I noted, we are really talking about the here and now. While the reasons for the total ban may not be generally known I do feel that our past prophets were inspired in gradually moving to that teetotal position. I have pretty much always felt that way as I have watched how alcohol has ravaged the lives of so many of my friends and family. So I guess that you could even say that this new study is just a confirmation bias, but it surely is a pretty handy prop for that, n'est-ce pas?

Glenn

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On 8/28/2018 at 11:23 AM, JLHPROF said:

My point is the idea that the prophets were inspired to outright ban all alcohol would imply that drinking any alcohol is always either harmful or sinful.

Knowing of the actions of our Savior would show that to be false. Therefore the reasons for the total ban are generally unknown.

in Christs time, drinking water was very unsafe, wine and brewed items were much safer.

 

Edited by mnn727
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8 hours ago, mnn727 said:

It was not a new study, it was a new look at old studies that had nothing to do with zero alcohol consumption and coming up with an unrelated conclusion - the word for that is "Junk Science"

Welp, that is depressing. I think I need a good drink to steel myself up to take that news.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:50 AM, mnn727 said:

It was not a new study, it was a new look at old studies that had nothing to do with zero alcohol consumption and coming up with an unrelated conclusion - the word for that is "Junk Science"

The Lancet will be shocked to learn that they are publishing junk science. My concern is that , for a one drink per day level the increase of some disease or harm went from 914 per 100,000 to 918 . That seems to be within the margin of statistical error. It is worth noting what happens as the number of drinks per day increases. Also interesting was the average numbers of drinks consumed by different countries.

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On 8/24/2018 at 8:23 PM, BlueDreams said:

I don't know if as a blanket statement that was what was meant by the passage. There was such a thing as small beer that had usually around 1-2% alcohol content. That's about as much as a low grade kombucha that you don't need a card to buy. In short, there's not a chance for intoxication. Most beers have an alcohol content of 4-8%. Considering there is a prohibition on "strong drinks" and a specification to barley drinks that are mild, the common use "beer" we think of nowaday, may not have been the one meant in this passage. 

 

Just sayin...

With luv,

BD

Small beer yes, but I don't think other beers would have been considered strong drinks either, having much less alcohol content than wine. Distilled liquor seems like the most obvious contender for "strong drinks", being much stronger than beer or wine.

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It is probably best to say " avoid all drinks that have alcohol " . Otherwise we start the nitpicking over how much alcohol is OK. 2% if fine but 3.5% is of the devil etc. etc. Heavens, my mom would make home made root beer and if it aged a bit too much my wife would claim she felt a slight buzz from it. We were of the opinion that the best policy was " don't ask !!" All I know is that it was WAY better than A & W .

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