cinepro Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Stargazer said: I hear this foolish comment frequently enough that I really have to ask you a question or two. 1. What is wrong with Fox News that isn't also wrong with ABC, CBS, NBC News and CNN? 2. Name a better source for "news". I used to not care about Fox News, but two recent experiences changed my mind. First, the "Eagles Knee" picture debacle. I know some people love Fox News, but I just can't see why anyone would continue to watch the channel after that. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories regarding Trump, and I don't watch Fox News (I don't have cable), but from what I can tell, they are acting almost as the propaganda arm of the administration. Second, my very conservative in-laws recently visited, and every political conversation felt like I was talking to someone who didn't speak the same language. And they constantly watch Fox News. They were convinced that all the "bad" news about Trump has been a result of Comey and other conspirators in the intelligence community, and that Mueller is a partisan hack who shouldn't be investigating the President. From a character and conservative point of view, there is no objective way to see Mueller as anything other than probably one of the most qualified people, and certainly the most qualified conservative Republican, to do what he is doing. It is obvious that they have put themselves in a reality-distortion field, and I attribute that to Fox News. That being said, and to bring this back on point, I've re-read the OP and I'm actually confused. Was there any point in the actual "Fox and Friends" segment where Romney or Mormonism was specifically referred to? Is this the panel? http://video.foxnews.com/v/5787318438001/?#sp=show-clips Jeffress says that Romney's opponent, Mike Kennedy who is also LDS, called him to apologize for "Romney's intemperate comments." 3
cinepro Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) FWIW, Jeffress claimed Romney took his statement about Mormonism "out of context", so I went down the rabbit hole to try and find it, and found this interesting video from 2012 of Jeffress supporting Romney (and actually fearing that evangelical voters might "sit this one out.") https://www.cnn.com/videos/bestoftv/2012/09/27/exp-pastor-jeffress-on-romney-and-the-evangelical-vote.cnn At least at this point in September of 2012, Jeffress really wanted Romney to win and wanted to "energize Evangelical voters" in support of him. Edited June 25, 2018 by cinepro
Stargazer Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 9 hours ago, cinepro said: I used to not care about Fox News, but two recent experiences changed my mind. First, the "Eagles Knee" picture debacle. I know some people love Fox News, but I just can't see why anyone would continue to watch the channel after that. I'm not one to buy into conspiracy theories regarding Trump, and I don't watch Fox News (I don't have cable), but from what I can tell, they are acting almost as the propaganda arm of the administration. Second, my very conservative in-laws recently visited, and every political conversation felt like I was talking to someone who didn't speak the same language. And they constantly watch Fox News. They were convinced that all the "bad" news about Trump has been a result of Comey and other conspirators in the intelligence community, and that Mueller is a partisan hack who shouldn't be investigating the President. From a character and conservative point of view, there is no objective way to see Mueller as anything other than probably one of the most qualified people, and certainly the most qualified conservative Republican, to do what he is doing. It is obvious that they have put themselves in a reality-distortion field, and I attribute that to Fox News. As for myself, I don't watch Fox News, or any of the other, more mainstream sources, at least on a regular basis. What I do know is that all of them have a distinct point of view, and in the case of the "alphabet soup", that point of view colors everything they report on (or don't report on). Have you ever watched "The View"? Of course Fox News has a point of view, and comes up with some doozies, but no worse doozies than ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN. One characteristic at the alphabet soup is that no politically conservative correspondent or talking head can survive there. John Stossel survived at CBS News by the skin of his teeth for years, probably only because he is a libertarian, and would take shots at Republican nonsense as well as Democratic. And at least Fox has people on both sides of the fence. Your relatives putting themselves into a reality-distortion field (and by the way, just because you disagree with them on some issues doesn't mean they're wrong) is not Fox's fault. And I have a few Facebook friends that regularly spout alphabet soup memes as if that were God's truth, and cannot be induced to even consider there is any other valid point of view. There are people who are driven to Fox News because of the palpable opposite polarization found in other places. AND, I'm not going to make this a formal CFR, but I did ask you to provide a better source of news than Fox and the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN cabal. Would you please answer, if you can? And "I don't know" or "There isn't any" are both acceptable answers. I sure there isn't any totally unbiased news source in the world, but is there anything out there that is at least even-handed?
cinepro Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Stargazer said: AND, I'm not going to make this a formal CFR, but I did ask you to provide a better source of news than Fox and the ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN cabal. Would you please answer, if you can? And "I don't know" or "There isn't any" are both acceptable answers. I sure there isn't any totally unbiased news source in the world, but is there anything out there that is at least even-handed? For a more conservative view, I tend to read the Wall Street Journal and The American Conservative. I just don't watch much television news, other than the local news in the evenings occasionally. Like I said, I don't have cable, so no CNN, Fox News or MSNBC for me. And I don't think it would hurt society in general if people watched less cable news. As for the analogy to "The View", I would be just as disappointed if my in-laws were forming their political opinions based on watching "The View." The fact that there are awful liberal news sources doesn't make me more accepting of Fox News. It does help me understand why some people see the need for it, and I know how it appeals to some people by reinforcing their views (as the liberal sources do). But ultimately, I don't think it's a good thing. Edited June 25, 2018 by cinepro 1
jkwilliams Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, cinepro said: For a more conservative view, I tend to read the Wall Street Journal and The American Conservative. I just don't watch much television news, other than the local news in the evenings occasionally. Like I said, I don't have cable, so no CNN, Fox News or MSNBC for me. And I don't think it would hurt society in general if people watched less cable news. As for the analogy to "The View", I would be just as disappointed if my in-laws were forming their political opinions based on watching "The View." The fact that there are awful liberal news sources doesn't make me more accepting of Fox News. It does help me understand why some people see the need for it, and I know how it appeals to some people by reinforcing their views (as the liberal sources do). But ultimately, I don't think it's a good thing. I try to read as widely as I can to get every side's take: National Review, The Nation, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, CNN, Fox News, BBC, and so on. I will say that Fox News's credibility took a big hit with me when I worked at the White House. The other networks (even MSNBC) covered the inauguration crowd and women's march accurately, whereas the Fox News reporting was, well, embarrassing. I was there and could see what was going on with my own eyes, but according to Fox News (and some of my more rabid Trump supporting friends), it simply didn't happen. Either way, Fox and Friends was always on in the cafeteria when we went down for a morning break, and it shocked me how insipid the whole thing was. These are not bright people. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 I'm not sure why you would be disturbed by a non-believer not agreeing with your beliefs. It's to be expected, no? I'm also not sure why you would expect a news station, or clergy from other churches to defend your beliefs. I don't think it's worth getting upset about. 3
Calm Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: I try to read as widely as I can to get every side's take: National Review, The Nation, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, CNN, Fox News, BBC, and so on. I will say that Fox News's credibility took a big hit with me when I worked at the White House. The other networks (even MSNBC) covered the inauguration crowd and women's march accurately, whereas the Fox News reporting was, well, embarrassing. I was there and could see what was going on with my own eyes, but according to Fox News (and some of my more rabid Trump supporting friends), it simply didn't happen. Either way, Fox and Friends was always on in the cafeteria when we went down for a morning break, and it shocked me how insipid the whole thing was. These are not bright people. When we were in Moscow, CNN reported on a Communist party march during elections that my husband observed. Not only did they report false numbers (at least a tenth of what were there, possibly much less...it has been over 20 years so specifics are a bit blurred...iirc, the Communists reported 100,000, the local news 10,000 and my husband said there might have be 1,000 if you counted the onlookers), but they filmed the crowd so they got right to the edge, but didn't show it so it appeared to be a much larger mass all squeezed together to fit into the square. Thing is, the organizers had the group all squished together and it only took up a fraction of the entire square. The news organization went along with the scam. That and a few other experiences there and in Canada caused me to lose faith in news reporting from anyone as I see it as mostly sensationalism and sentimentality (choosing to report on a bride wrestling pigs in a wedding dress while neglecting an important international event, for example ) to drive up ratings. Edited June 25, 2018 by Calm
jkwilliams Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calm said: When we were in Moscow, CNN reported on a Communist party march during elections that my husband observed. Not only did they report false numbers (at least a tenth of what were there), but they filmed the crowd so they got right to the edge, but didn't show it so it appeared to be a much larger mass all squeezed together to fit into the square. Thing is, the organizers had the group all squished together and it only took up a fraction of the entire square. That and a few other experiences there and in Canada caused me to lose faith in news reporting from anyone as I see it as mostly sensationalism and sentimentality (choosing to report on a bride wrestling pigs in a wedding dress while neglecting an important international event, for example ) to drive up ratings. That's why I always read from multiple sources with different axes to grind. Then I figure out what I think is really going on. Doesn't always work, but at least I try to get some balance. 1
Calm Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: That's why I always read from multiple sources with different axes to grind. Then I figure out what I think is really going on. Doesn't always work, but at least I try to get some balance. I agree that is the way to go, though mostly I check with BBC just for the contrast to American perspective. Edited June 25, 2018 by Calm 1
jkwilliams Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Calm said: I agree if that is the way to go, though mostly I check with BBC just for the contrast to American perspective. True, if I didn't read BBC I wouldn't know half of what is going on in the world. It's amazing how much navel-gazing American networks do. 1
Stargazer Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 40 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: True, if I didn't read BBC I wouldn't know half of what is going on in the world. It's amazing how much navel-gazing American networks do. I'm living in the UK now, and I find it amazing that British television (and not just the Beeb) covers a lot of American things. The problem with American networks, in my humble opinion, is that they don't care about international things all that much, because most of them are more interested in propagandizing for their political points of view. It's not America-centric so much as they are attempting to sway public opinion. Reporting on international matters that don't directly pertain to the US doesn't support their goals, so they do it as little as possible. And you see this over here, too, though perhaps to a lesser extent. The BBC, for example, was and remains anti-Brexit. Their coverage of the matter is subtly slanted towards turning back Brexit if at all possible. The British are still human, too.
jkwilliams Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I'm living in the UK now, and I find it amazing that British television (and not just the Beeb) covers a lot of American things. The problem with American networks, in my humble opinion, is that they don't care about international things all that much, because most of them are more interested in propagandizing for their political points of view. It's not America-centric so much as they are attempting to sway public opinion. Reporting on international matters that don't directly pertain to the US doesn't support their goals, so they do it as little as possible. And you see this over here, too, though perhaps to a lesser extent. The BBC, for example, was and remains anti-Brexit. Their coverage of the matter is subtly slanted towards turning back Brexit if at all possible. The British are still human, too. About the only American news organization that really covers international news is NPR.
Guest Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I'm not sure why you would be disturbed by a non-believer not agreeing with your beliefs. It's to be expected, no? I'm also not sure why you would expect a news station, or clergy from other churches to defend your beliefs. I don't think it's worth getting upset about. If you are addressing the OP and myself, I did not suggest that other ministers need too support my (our) beliefs. I gave it little thought until some time later when I found out who was sitting on the couch, and did not challenge or seek to correct the idea that we do not believe in Jesus Christ. I think you missed the point of the post, even if I were an angry apostate, I would still seek to set the record straight. Everyone had an opinion on Mormon belief, except the only Mormon in the room, who allowed everyone else to try and define our beliefs.
Guest Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, jkwilliams said: About the only American news organization that really covers international news is NPR. Sure, as long as you can wash it down with their anti-Americanism, and anti- Israel rants. Edited June 25, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee
jkwilliams Posted June 25, 2018 Posted June 25, 2018 Just now, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Sure, as long as you can wash it down with their anti-Americanism. That’s more than a bit of an overstatement. Yes, they lean liberal, but they are the one of the few news organizations that seek out conservatives and treat them with respect.
sunstoned Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 On 6/24/2018 at 9:59 AM, cinepro said: As for the "satan" claim, I would cut Pastor Jeffs some slack, because he might have heard the Mormons claim Jesus told Joseph Smith that other Christian creeds were an "abomination" to him. Faced with such a claim, a non-Mormon Christian is faced with either believing Jesus actually did say such a thing and then converting to Mormonism, or believing Jesus didn't say such a thing and either Joseph Smith was lying, or it wasn't really Jesus talking to him. And whether lying or deceived, it would be easy to attribute such deception to Satan. It might not be polite, but it certainly is logically and doctrinally sound. Not to mention that we use to portray a protestant minister in league with the Devil in the temple ceremony. I think over the years we have done our share of offending the beliefs of others. 3
Guest Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 17 hours ago, jkwilliams said: That’s more than a bit of an overstatement. Yes, they lean liberal, but they are the one of the few news organizations that seek out conservatives and treat them with respect. Well, you know me.
jkwilliams Posted June 26, 2018 Posted June 26, 2018 Just now, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Well, you know me. I used to have NPR on in the car when I drove the kids to school (a 20-minute drive back then to a charter school). My daughter commented to me a while back that she was glad I always did that because she learned a lot more about the world beyond the US from those car rides. I have tried to teach my children to think for themselves and to question the biases and motives behind sources of information. It must have worked, because most of my kids disagree with my political views. 😁 1
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