SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 We can analyze buildings to find evidence of engineering. Buildings are intelligently designed by architects and engineers. The scriptures say God created life, and I believe God speaks to us in a language that we can understand. God didn't lie to us, God wasn't playing childish metaphorical games. God doesn't need Evolution for life, and the theory of Evolution doesn't need a creator. Creation and Evolution are incompatible. I believe all life on Earth exists because God created it. Sunlight, gravity, and other forces are not deadly to life because God made us adapt them, in other words life was programmed to survived on Earth. The so--called "Cosmic Fine Tuning" isn't real because God didn't make a Universe for life to exists independently of God. All living things depend of God. Life on Earth cannot exists, thrive, reproduce, and survive without God. Life is simply impossible without a creator.
mfbukowski Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 6 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: God doesn't need Evolution for life, and the theory of Evolution doesn't need a creator. Creation and Evolution are incompatible. I just want to point out a logical error here that may actually help you on your path. I actually agree with these sentences, but your conclusion is faulty. In fact you make a point I have been making for years. Since Evolution doesn't need God and God doesn't need Evolution they are in fact compatible not incompatible. As I have said forever they have nothing to do with each other. Basketball has no need for knitting and knitting has no need for basketball. But one could be both a knitter and a basketball player. So knitting and basketball are compatible not incompatible. If you could grasp that simple point your conflict between science and religion would disappear. 2
CV75 Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 11 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: We can analyze buildings to find evidence of engineering. Buildings are intelligently designed by architects and engineers. The scriptures say God created life, and I believe God speaks to us in a language that we can understand. God didn't lie to us, God wasn't playing childish metaphorical games. God doesn't need Evolution for life, and the theory of Evolution doesn't need a creator. Creation and Evolution are incompatible. I believe all life on Earth exists because God created it. Sunlight, gravity, and other forces are not deadly to life because God made us adapt them, in other words life was programmed to survived on Earth. The so--called "Cosmic Fine Tuning" isn't real because God didn't make a Universe for life to exists independently of God. All living things depend of God. Life on Earth cannot exists, thrive, reproduce, and survive without God. Life is simply impossible without a creator. Biological evolution is a life process observed in the fallen world but not in Eden, in any of the pre-mortal estate(s), or in any of the post-mortal and immortal estate(s) and worlds.
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted March 5, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 5, 2018 At first I thought the title of the thread was going to discuss how bacteria self-flaggelate like good Franciscans. Or maybe it would be about bacterial flatulence. But no, it had to be another evolution thread... 5
JLHPROF Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 15 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Sunlight, gravity, and other forces are not deadly to life because God made us adapt them, in other words life was programmed to survived on Earth. The very definition of "fallen" (outside of the separated from God part) refers to our being subject to death and decay. Whether or not God made the earth we are not programmed to survive on the fallen earth. We are programmed to die from a variety of causes. And for some that can include sunlight and gravity. You argue that we have no need to worry about nature killing us (by which you clearly mean global warming or overpopulation) except that is actually is that natural conditions of a fallen world that bring about death. If you mean the earth will never be uninhabitable you are correct. If you mean there aren't natural conditions on this earth that we need to worry about, then you are wrong. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 15 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: God didn't lie to us, God wasn't playing childish metaphorical games. God doesn't need Evolution for life, and the theory of Evolution doesn't need a creator. Creation and Evolution are incompatible. God does not create from nothing (ex nihilo). He organizes preexisting materials.. To each planet, he brings life from other planets. The process is called transmission (panspermia). 15 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: We can analyze buildings to find evidence of engineering. Buildings are intelligently designed by architects and engineers. The scriptures say God created life, and I believe God speaks to us in a language that we can understand. I believe all life on Earth exists because God created it. Sunlight, gravity, and other forces are not deadly to life because God made us adapt them, in other words life was programmed to survived on Earth. This is part of the argument from design, which you have said that you accept. It is also an example of "fine-tuning." 15 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: The so--called "Cosmic Fine Tuning" isn't real because God didn't make a Universe for life to exists independently of God. All living things depend of God. Life on Earth cannot exists, thrive, reproduce, and survive without God. Life is simply impossible without a creator. In LDS theology, life has always existed, and will always exist. Using his mastery of natural law, God fine tunes each planet where he plans to introduce humans (his children). Natural law exists apart from God. God is part of time and space. God is god because he has mastered time & space, and natural law.
The Nehor Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: At first I thought the title of the thread was going to discuss how bacteria self-flaggelate like good Franciscans. Or maybe it would be about bacterial flatulence. But no, it had to be another evolution thread... Someone please start this more interesting thread. 3
cinepro Posted March 5, 2018 Posted March 5, 2018 20 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: We can analyze buildings to find evidence of engineering. Buildings are intelligently designed by architects and engineers. If you look at the history of buildings and architecture, it's probably more correct to say they "evolved" than were "intelligently designed." Just as modern organisms are the result of countless improvements over the centuries, so to are modern buildings the result of countless little improvements in design and engineering over the centuries.
mfbukowski Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 Actually there is no scientific way to define what constitutes "intelligent design". Would it include a bird's nest? Would it include the use of simple tools by chimps? Would it include ant hills and other complex formations formed by insects? In a scientific paradigm the words are meaningless.
Michael Sudworth Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 20 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Since Evolution doesn't need God and God doesn't need Evolution they are in fact compatible not incompatible. False. My shoe laces don't need a V8 diesel engine. Therefore, my laces and a V8 diesel engine are compatible. Nonsense, brother.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Basketball has no need for knitting and knitting has no need for basketball. But one could be both a knitter and a basketball player. So knitting and basketball are compatible not incompatible. Evolution doesn't need a creator and a creator doesn't need Evolution. Is God the creator of all life on Earth? 20 hours ago, mfbukowski said: If you could grasp that simple point your conflict between science and religion would disappear. It makes a lot of sense if you are talking about some unknown god who doesn't intervene in the universe. Edited March 6, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
Michael Sudworth Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 2 hours ago, mfbukowski said: In a scientific paradigm the words are meaningless. In a scientific paradigm, words have very precise meanings.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Michael Sudworth said: False. My shoe laces don't need a V8 diesel engine. Therefore, my laces and a V8 diesel engine are compatible. Nonsense, brother. As I told mfbukowski it makes a lot of sense if you are talking about some unknown god who doesn't intervene in the universe brother. Evolutionary Biologist Francisco Ayala who is himself a Christian wrote "In evolution, there is no entity or person who is selecting adaptive combinations. These combinations select themselves because the organisms possessing them reproduce more effectively than those with less adaptive variations. Therefore, natural selection does not strive to produce predetermined kinds of organisms but only organisms that are adapted to their present environment" You can read the full quote here http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69525-no-position-on-god-how-evolution-works-according-to-science/ Edited March 6, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: In LDS theology, life has always existed, and will always exist. Using his mastery of natural law, God fine tunes each planet where he plans to introduce humans (his children). God doesn't need to "fine tune" planets. 12 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: God does not create from nothing (ex nihilo). He organizes preexisting materials.. True, but our bodies were created by God.
Robert F. Smith Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: God doesn't need to "fine tune" planets. Of course he does. Why do you think he wouldn't properly prepare planets for his children? You are disagreeing just to be disagreeable, Sam. 3 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: True, but our bodies were created by God. No, they were organized from preexisting matter by him, according to natural law.
The Nehor Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: God doesn't need to "fine tune" planets. So he randomly came across one that was perfect formed for humanity? Aren't you undermining your argument here?
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Of course he does. Why do you think he wouldn't properly prepare planets for his children? You are disagreeing just to be disagreeable, Sam.. God created our bodies and all life to survive on Earth.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: So he randomly came across one that was perfect formed for humanity? It's the other way around. God perfectly formed our bodies to survive on Earth. Same is true for all life. If God wanted to he could make our bodies adapt to Pluto. You would be asking the same thing "Why is Pluto perfectly formed?"
Robert F. Smith Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: God created our bodies and all life to survive on Earth........................................... Yes, God organized human bodies to survive on the planet Earth he fine-tuned for us. So?
The Nehor Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 6 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: It's the other way around. God perfectly formed our bodies to survive on Earth. Same is true for all life. If God wanted to he could make our bodies adapt to Pluto. You would be asking the same thing "Why is Pluto perfectly formed?" No, we are discussing planets and Pluto is not a planet. 1
mfbukowski Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) I gave nothing more to say here that is charitable. The frustration is overwhelming Edited March 6, 2018 by mfbukowski
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 6, 2018 Author Posted March 6, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: and Pluto is not a planet. God can make our bodies survive on the Sun if he wanted to. Our bodies are fine-tuned, not the universe. The fine-tuning of the Universe is just an illusion. Right? Edited March 6, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite
mfbukowski Posted March 6, 2018 Posted March 6, 2018 I wish this was an illusion. It's like fingernails on a chalkboard.
Recommended Posts