jospeh the con man?

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

9 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Who called and ordained you?

The Holy Spirit. Who called and ordained you?

Where in the Bible does it say that Aaron was called by the Holy Spirit? According to the Bible one must be called of God as was Aaron. It was not the Holy Spirit but a prophet that took the word to Aaron.

Even Paul (and Barnabas) was set apart for his ministry by the laying on of hands prior to beginning his missionary work after he was baptized and after the Holy Ghost had so ordered. Paul was not ordained by the Holy Ghost but by men holding the authority from God to do so.

Glenn 

[clarkgoble]

11 hours ago, Gray said:

I don't think any  of the writers of the NT actually knew anything about the circumstances of Jesus' birth. Both nativity stories are invented, and generally even with great historical figures we tend not to know much about their birth/early childhood, especially in the ancient world. Jesus' greatness was largely recognized only after his death.

I don't think they knew since they likely wrote well after. However I'm not claiming they are eye witnesses. Merely that if Mary were that unusual it'd have been part of the oral tradition they drew upon.

[Jane_Doe]

11 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

As a saved believer I'm one of His priests and Christ alone is the authority and the Bible His all sufficient Golden Rule.

Do you really believe the theology you espouse here, @LittleNipper?

If you do, will you then acknowledge me as a saved believer, priestess, and guaranteed to be in Heaven with you?  Thus far you have refused to do so, or treat me (or others here) according to the Golden Rule.  Furthermore, you actions treat people here as if they were less than yourself and in need of saving, regardless of how we tell you about our love for Christ.  Hence my question: 

Do you really believe the theology you espouse here, @LittleNipper?

[Gray]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

I don't think they knew since they likely wrote well after. However I'm not claiming they are eye witnesses. Merely that if Mary were that unusual it'd have been part of the oral tradition they drew upon.

I'm not convinced a later marriage age, if known, would have been unusual enough to merit a mention, unless there had been some theological reason to bring it up.

[Avatar4321]

4 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

The Holy Spirit. Who called and ordained you?

So the Holy Spirit laid His hands on your head and ordained you a priest?

I was called by prophecy and the laying on of hands by the Lord's authorized servant, as Aaron was. Which we learn in the Bible

[LittleNipper]

8 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

You do realize that us Catholics put the Bible together, don't you? So if you believe the Bible is authoritatively from God, then shouldn't you also believe that the Catholic Church has the authority of God?

Why aren't you a Catholic?

I do not believe that the Roman Catholic church as we know it didn't come into existence for hundreds of years after Pentecost , and didn't encompass all Christians when it was established.  I'm a bible believing Christian and a member of the Universal Church headed by Jesus Christ.

[LittleNipper]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

So the Holy Spirit laid His hands on your head and ordained you a priest?

I was called by prophecy and the laying on of hands by the Lord's authorized servant, as Aaron was. Which we learn in the Bible

Does such material things matter? Who are those that lay hand. What gives them the power? Who laid hands on Joseph Smith? Was it a Methodist or Presbyterian minister? Who baptized Joseph Smith? What it a Baptist or Mennonite pastor? Aaron was related to Moses and Moses and they both were decedents of Abraham. And this was all about the founding of Israel from whom Jesus the Messiah would be born. 

I see nothing wrong in laying on of hands nor water baptism. I was baptized in a Baptist church by a Calvary Bible Protestant Pastor. We are no longer under the LAW but under Christ.

[LittleNipper]

4 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Do you really believe the theology you espouse here, @LittleNipper?

If you do, will you then acknowledge me as a saved believer, priestess, and guaranteed to be in Heaven with you?  Thus far you have refused to do so, or treat me (or others here) according to the Golden Rule.  Furthermore, you actions treat people here as if they were less than yourself and in need of saving, regardless of how we tell you about our love for Christ.  Hence my question: 

Do you really believe the theology you espouse here, @LittleNipper?

I do not in anyway believe I'm better than you. I do believe what I say may make some feel uneasy and that I believe the Holy Spirit is talking to you. Yes, I bo believe that all born-again believers are a holy priesthood. I do not know you. I cannot do what you ask because we disagree on strategic doctrine principles. 

[Avatar4321]

18 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Does such material things matter? Who are those that lay hand. What gives them the power? Who laid hands on Joseph Smith? Was it a Methodist or Presbyterian minister? Who baptized Joseph Smith? What it a Baptist or Mennonite pastor? Aaron was related to Moses and Moses and they both were decedents of Abraham. And this was all about the founding of Israel from whom Jesus the Messiah would be born. 

I see nothing wrong in laying on of hands nor water baptism. I was baptized in a Baptist church by a Calvary Bible Protestant Pastor. We are no longer under the LAW but under Christ.

Peter, James, and John did. As well as others who held keys and authority.

And yes, these things matter.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." John 10:1

 

Those called and authorized to be shepherd in the Lord's church are called as Aaron was so that the sheep know the shepherd

[Jane_Doe]

 

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

. I cannot do what you ask because we disagree on strategic doctrine principles. 

You profess that all a person needs to do to be saved is to believe in Jesus Christ.  I have done so (and you know that because you've been told many times).  There's nothing about "believe in Jesus Christ AND agree of strategic doctrine principles".  

I believe in Christ.  Therefore, in your theology I am a born-again forever saved holy priestess of God.  You can either acknowledge that fact, or acknowledge you do not believe your professed theology.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[LittleNipper]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

 

You profess that all a person needs to do to be saved is to believe in Jesus Christ.  I have done so (and you know that because you've been told many times).  There's nothing about "believe in Jesus Christ AND agree of strategic doctrine principles".  

I believe in Christ.  Therefore, in your theology I am a born-again forever saved holy priestess of God.  You can either acknowledge that fact, or acknowledge you do not believe your professed theology.

You are then saved by your so declared faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and in that alone. Now you should find a like minded congregation so that you can mature in the Holy Word of God and grow in Christ.

Edited November 15, 2017 by LittleNipper

[LittleNipper]

4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Peter, James, and John did. As well as others who held keys and authority.

And yes, these things matter.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber." John 10:1

 

Those called and authorized to be shepherd in the Lord's church are called as Aaron was so that the sheep know the shepherd

Jesus said in John 10:7  “I am the door” Jesus is the way the truth and the life --- no man comes to the Father but through Him!" OR, do you think Aaron is the Good Shepherd?

Edited November 16, 2017 by LittleNipper

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I do not believe that the Roman Catholic church as we know it didn't come into existence for hundreds of years after Pentecost , and didn't encompass all Christians when it was established.  I'm a bible believing Christian and a member of the Universal Church headed by Jesus Christ.

You didn't answer the question. Why do you believe in the Bible that was put together by the Catholic Church? You realize you are believing in the sacred scripture of the Catholic Church, right?

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

You are then saved by your so declared faith in our Lord Jesus Christ and in that alone. Now you should find a like minded congregation so that you can mature in the Holy Word of God and grow in Christ.

Already have.  In fact, every member of my in my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints congregation likewise declares their faith in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  According to your professed theology, every LDS member is a forever saved, holy priest/priestess in Christ's kingdom.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[LittleNipper]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

You didn't answer the question. Why do you believe in the Bible that was put together by the Catholic Church? You realize you are believing in the sacred scripture of the Catholic Church, right?

I believe in a Bible that was assembled by the working of the Holy Spirit exactly as God desired. I fully realize I am believing in the sacred word of GOD and that its full understanding is divinely inspired.

Edited November 16, 2017 by LittleNipper

[pogi]

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Now you should find a like minded congregation so that you can mature in the Holy Word of God and grow in Christ.

Nah...that is just a bunch of unnecessary works!

[MiserereNobis]

4 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I believe in a Bible that was assembled by the working of the Holy Spirit exactly as God desired.

So you admit that the bishops and ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church that promulgated the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit? That the Catholic Church was led by the Holy Spirit?

[LittleNipper]

7 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

So you admit that the bishops and ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church that promulgated the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit? That the Catholic Church was led by the Holy Spirit?

One would have to study the history of the Catholic church. I do consider myself to be a member of the Universal (Latin - Catholic) Church. I'm not Roman Catholic. The Church found in Rome before Constantine made Christianity the "State Religion" was far different than the one that would develope a few centuries later.. God did use Pharaoh in His dealing with the Hebrews, and I see no reason the GOD would not use the same influence to establish the New Testament canon using both saved and unveiled individuals.

[LittleNipper]

11 hours ago, pogi said:

Nah...that is just a bunch of unnecessary works!

Study and prayer isn't work for those that love the Lord and want to understand the Bible better.

[pogi]

32 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Study and prayer isn't work for those that love the Lord and want to understand the Bible better.

I could say the same thing about baptism and obeying the commandments.

[Jane_Doe]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I could say the same thing about baptism and obeying the commandments.

Or joining a church!

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Study and prayer isn't work for those that love the Lord and want to understand the Bible better.

That doesn't make any sense, considering the accusations of 'saved by works' that you have made against the LDS church.  Using your definition, nothing the LDS church believes is required for salvation is a work at all because it's all done by those who love the Lord and want to understand His commandments better.

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That doesn't make any sense, considering the accusations of 'saved by works' that you have made against the LDS church.  Using your definition, nothing the LDS church believes is required for salvation is a work at all because it's all done by those who love the Lord and want to understand His commandments better.

For what it's worth, he did acknowledge that according to his theology, every single one of us is a forever saved holy priest in his church.   He didn't seem happy about acknowledging it, but he did.  

[Gray]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:47 AM, Glenn101 said:

Where in the Bible does it say that Aaron was called by the Holy Spirit? According to the Bible one must be called of God as was Aaron. It was not the Holy Spirit but a prophet that took the word to Aaron.

Even Paul (and Barnabas) was set apart for his ministry by the laying on of hands prior to beginning his missionary work after he was baptized and after the Holy Ghost had so ordered. Paul was not ordained by the Holy Ghost but by men holding the authority from God to do so.

Glenn 

Either way of thinking about authority can be defended using the Bible.

[LittleNipper]

Salvation comes first and then the works begin. That is the Holy Spirit working in one's life. One must not believe that the cart comes before the horse.