New Revelations in the Last Days and Restored Truths

[pogi]

In the Pope thread, the discussion has raised questions about the difference between Mormon revelation and Catholic revelation.  With one claimed difference being that Mormonism believes that God can reveal new truths which have never before been revealed on Earth, while the Catholic version of revelation is not to reveal "new truths" but to clarify and expound upon previous truths which have already been revealed (if I understand correctly).

That got me thinking about examples of "new truths" that have been revealed in the last days... It was difficult for me to come up with any examples.  Mormonism, it seems, is mostly a restoration gospel with restored truths from all previous dispensations being brought to light in this, the dispensation of the fullness of times.  

I ask that you leave out revelations that include doctrinal clarifications, policy changes, organizational changes, and general direction of the church (mission callings etc.), as the Catholic Church also believes that they receive revelation for the same purposes.

The church teaches that the temple ordinances are ancient and have been around since the time of Adam: https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2016/05/25/case-ancient-temple-ordinancesThe plan of salvation with different kingdoms is not new.  The pre-earth life and condition as intelligences, was revealed to Abraham.  Even the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" is not really "new"- sealing and plural marriage is ancient and was restored. Baptism for the dead - not new. etc. etc. etc.  We believe that new scriptures are yet to be revealed, but while it may be "new" to us, it will only be a restoration of ancient knowledge.  So, can anyone give me an example of a truth that has been revealed in our dispensation that is not simply a restored truth, or an expounding of ancient knowledge?  I would be curious to see what everyone comes up with.  Thanks! 

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

In the Pope thread, the discussion has raised questions about the difference between Mormon revelation and Catholic revelation.  With one claimed difference being that Mormonism believes that God can reveal new truths which have never before been revealed on Earth, while the Catholic version of revelation is not to reveal "new truths" but to clarify and expound upon previous truths which have already been revealed (if I understand correctly).

That got me thinking about examples of "new truths" that have been revealed in the last days... It was difficult for me to come up with any examples.  Mormonism, it seems, is mostly a restoration gospel with restored truths from all previous dispensations being brought to light in this, the dispensation of the fullness of times.  

I ask that you leave out revelations that include doctrinal clarifications, policy changes, organizational changes, and general direction of the church (mission callings etc.), as the Catholic Church also believes that they receive revelation for the same purposes.

The church teaches that the temple ordinances are ancient and have been around since the time of Adam: https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2016/05/25/case-ancient-temple-ordinancesThe plan of salvation with different kingdoms is not new.  The pre-earth life and condition as intelligences, was revealed to Abraham.  Even the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" is not really "new"- sealing and plural marriage is ancient and was restored. Baptism for the dead - not new. etc. etc. etc.  We believe that new scriptures are yet to be revealed, but while it may be "new" to us, it will only be a restoration of ancient knowledge.  So, can anyone give me an example of a truth that has been revealed in our dispensation that is not simply a restored truth, or an expounding of ancient knowledge?  I would be curious to see what everyone comes up with.  Thanks! 

I would disagree with you on the doctrine of sealing and eternal families.  I think that is new, I don't see it in ancient religious teachings.  Its new in that there is this idea that the entire human family is connected and that we need each other in order to obtain salvation.  At least I'm not aware of that explicit teaching in prior religions, but I'd be interested in learning more if there is evidence of that.  Its hard for humans to come up with truly unique and new ideas.  What we see with most innovation is that there is an incremental approach to learning and stepping stones from one idea to another.  

The problem you'll run into in Mormonism is there are claims that all of these ideas existed anciently without any actual evidence to support those claims.  Just because Joseph or some other modern leader claimed a teaching is a restoration of something ancient doesn't make it so.  They were making these claims as part of a theological articulation of what Mormonism was doing. 

Its like claiming that the modern church is just a carbon copy of how Jesus organized a church during his life, unfortunately there isn't any evidence to show that Jesus did anything of that sort.   

 

[CV75]

35 minutes ago, pogi said:

In the Pope thread, the discussion has raised questions about the difference between Mormon revelation and Catholic revelation.  With one claimed difference being that Mormonism believes that God can reveal new truths which have never before been revealed on Earth, while the Catholic version of revelation is not to reveal "new truths" but to clarify and expound upon previous truths which have already been revealed (if I understand correctly).

That got me thinking about examples of "new truths" that have been revealed in the last days... It was difficult for me to come up with any examples.  Mormonism, it seems, is mostly a restoration gospel with restored truths from all previous dispensations being brought to light in this, the dispensation of the fullness of times.  

I ask that you leave out revelations that include doctrinal clarifications, policy changes, organizational changes, and general direction of the church (mission callings etc.), as the Catholic Church also believes that they receive revelation for the same purposes.

The church teaches that the temple ordinances are ancient and have been around since the time of Adam: https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2016/05/25/case-ancient-temple-ordinancesThe plan of salvation with different kingdoms is not new.  The pre-earth life and condition as intelligences, was revealed to Abraham.  Even the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" is not really "new"- sealing and plural marriage is ancient and was restored. Baptism for the dead - not new. etc. etc. etc.  We believe that new scriptures are yet to be revealed, but while it may be "new" to us, it will only be a restoration of ancient knowledge.  So, can anyone give me an example of a truth that has been revealed in our dispensation that is not simply a restored truth, or an expounding of ancient knowledge?  I would be curious to see what everyone comes up with.  Thanks! 

Perhaps one difference is that the Catholic tradition preserves and promulgates the Biblical revelations, while the LDS tradition additionally builds upon them with ongoing revelation, and actively uses ongoing revelation to carry out the preservation and promulgation of Biblical and extra-Biblical revelation.

[pogi]

27 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I would disagree with you on the doctrine of sealing and eternal families.  I think that is new, I don't see it in ancient religious teachings.  Its new in that there is this idea that the entire human family is connected and that we need each other in order to obtain salvation.  At least I'm not aware of that explicit teaching in prior religions, but I'd be interested in learning more if there is evidence of that.  Its hard for humans to come up with truly unique and new ideas.  What we see with most innovation is that there is an incremental approach to learning and stepping stones from one idea to another.  

The problem you'll run into in Mormonism is there are claims that all of these ideas existed anciently without any actual evidence to support those claims.  Just because Joseph or some other modern leader claimed a teaching is a restoration of something ancient doesn't make it so.  They were making these claims as part of a theological articulation of what Mormonism was doing. 

Its like claiming that the modern church is just a carbon copy of how Jesus organized a church during his life, unfortunately there isn't any evidence to show that Jesus did anything of that sort.   

 

One difference between Catholic revelation and Mormon revelation is that we believe that extra Biblical ancient truths can be revealed to us.  In fact, we don't claim the need for any script at all to restore ancient truths.  Whether or not these ancient truths are new or not doesn't really help me,.  All that matters is that the Church claims that it is of ancient origin.  I can't use that as evidence of "new" truth when the church itself claims it is not new.  In fact, we claim that the sealing keys were restored from the dispensation of the prophet Elijah.  It is claimed that Malachi (Malachi 4:5-6) prophesied of this restoration, we also refer to Hebrews 11:40 and Matthew 16:18-19 as evidence of these ancient keys and knowledge of family sealing.  So, in speaking with a Catholic, I cannot point them to the sealing of families as something that the church claims as "new" revelation.

[pogi]

20 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Perhaps one difference is that the Catholic tradition preserves and promulgates the Biblical revelations, while the LDS tradition additionally builds upon them with ongoing revelation, and actively uses ongoing revelation to carry out the preservation and promulgation of Biblical and extra-Biblical revelation.

Yes, I agree that while Catholic revelation is limited to the expounding of the Bible and tradition, Mormon revelation of ancient truths is unrestricted to the Bible, tradition, or the written word at all.  I think that is the primary difference that I can think of in practical application.  Of course, Mormonism is open to new light and knowledge that has never been revealed, but it is hard for me to think of any actual examples of "new" light and knowledge which was reserved for this dispensation.  I was just curious to see if anybody could think of any examples.

[The Nehor]

Apotheosis, Adam-God, and of course the stuff talked about in the D&C about this being the dispensation in which nothing is withheld. We are still in the infancy of the Restoration.

[CV75]

43 minutes ago, pogi said:

Yes, I agree that while Catholic revelation is limited to the expounding of the Bible and tradition, Mormon revelation of ancient truths is unrestricted to the Bible, tradition, or the written word at all.  I think that is the primary difference that I can think of in practical application.  Of course, Mormonism is open to new light and knowledge that has never been revealed, but it is hard for me to think of any actual examples of "new" light and knowledge which was reserved for this dispensation.  I was just curious to see if anybody could think of any examples.

D&C 89, according to this article, was  the result of new revelation pouring down upon all flesh in the latter times (the health reform movement in the USA was generally inspired of God), but with his prophetic gifts, Joseph Smith came up with a new approach, for example by replacing the warnings, rationale and fear of the health reform movement with invitation, promise and religious principle.

https://history.lds.org/article/doctrine-and-covenants-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

Edited November 6, 2017 by CV75

[The Nehor]

32 minutes ago, CV75 said:

D&C 89, according to this article, was  the result of new revelation pouring down upon all flesh in the latter times (the health reform movement in the USA was generally inspired of God), but with his prophetic gifts, Joseph Smith came up with a new approach, for example by replacing the warnings, rationale and fear of the health reform movement with invitation, promise and religious principle.

https://history.lds.org/article/doctrine-and-covenants-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng

But the Word of Wisdom is not really in the class of eternal truth. It is a temporary law put in place due to conditions right now. It says so in the section. It could be revoked tomorrow with no doctrinal implications.

[Duncan]

it's hard to say as it doesn't appear we have all the records and not all revelation has been recorded even! Even in this dispensation stuff gets lost, burned, thrown out etc.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

One difference between Catholic revelation and Mormon revelation is that we believe that extra Biblical ancient truths can be revealed to us.  In fact, we don't claim the need for any script at all to restore ancient truths.  Whether or not these ancient truths are new or not doesn't really help me,.  All that matters is that the Church claims that it is of ancient origin.  I can't use that as evidence of "new" truth when the church itself claims it is not new.  In fact, we claim that the sealing keys were restored from the dispensation of the prophet Elijah.  It is claimed that Malachi (Malachi 4:5-6) prophesied of this restoration, we also refer to Hebrews 11:40 and Matthew 16:18-19 as evidence of these ancient keys and knowledge of family sealing.  So, in speaking with a Catholic, I cannot point them to the sealing of families as something that the church claims as "new" revelation.

The problem we've run into is when many of these claims have been proven to be false historically, it erodes the trust we can have in their literal accuracy assuming that you are talking about actual claims with historical validity. 

If the claims are exclusively in the metaphorical arena, then we ought to use words other than ancient restoration.  Perhaps restitution of eternal principles would be a better construct to describe what Mormonism is doing.  Its reconstituting eternal principles, not literally restoring ancient traditions because the claim that ancient traditions are being restored requires that there was an actual ancient tradition that is now being restored to its original traditional practice, and unfortunately the evidence hasn't backed up this claim.   

[strappinglad]

" new " has the same problem in definition as " soon " does when referring to the Lord's coming.

If I buy a used car it is ' new ' to me .

Technically there is nothing ' new ' under the sun .

someone may find' new' evidence for the Global Flood, but it would likely be quite old.

New rarely means something that was never in existence before. More likely it means recycled, reorganized, repurposed, rediscovered etc. , renewed if you will.

[CV75]

49 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

But the Word of Wisdom is not really in the class of eternal truth. It is a temporary law put in place due to conditions right now. It says so in the section. It could be revoked tomorrow with no doctrinal implications.

My bad

[pogi]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Apotheosis

The Church claims that this is a restored truth.

https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Adam-God

That one is not widely accepted as a legitimate revelation.  For those who do believe in it, I think it is accepted as a restored truth as well.  Certainly it would have been known in the dispensation of Adam anyway 

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

and of course the stuff talked about in the D&C about this being the dispensation in which nothing is withheld. 

We teach that the dispensation of the fullness of times was understood in the ancient world and taught by Paul in Ephesians 1:10:

 http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Dispensation_of_the_Fulness_of_Times

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

We are still in the infancy of the Restoration.

I agree.  But that is centered around "restored" truths instead of new light and knowledge reserved for this dispensation only. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by pogi

[RevTestament]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

In the Pope thread, the discussion has raised questions about the difference between Mormon revelation and Catholic revelation.  With one claimed difference being that Mormonism believes that God can reveal new truths which have never before been revealed on Earth, while the Catholic version of revelation is not to reveal "new truths" but to clarify and expound upon previous truths which have already been revealed (if I understand correctly).

That got me thinking about examples of "new truths" that have been revealed in the last days... It was difficult for me to come up with any examples.  Mormonism, it seems, is mostly a restoration gospel with restored truths from all previous dispensations being brought to light in this, the dispensation of the fullness of times.  

I ask that you leave out revelations that include doctrinal clarifications, policy changes, organizational changes, and general direction of the church (mission callings etc.), as the Catholic Church also believes that they receive revelation for the same purposes.

The church teaches that the temple ordinances are ancient and have been around since the time of Adam: https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2016/05/25/case-ancient-temple-ordinancesThe plan of salvation with different kingdoms is not new.  The pre-earth life and condition as intelligences, was revealed to Abraham.  Even the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" is not really "new"- sealing and plural marriage is ancient and was restored. Baptism for the dead - not new. etc. etc. etc.  We believe that new scriptures are yet to be revealed, but while it may be "new" to us, it will only be a restoration of ancient knowledge.  So, can anyone give me an example of a truth that has been revealed in our dispensation that is not simply a restored truth, or an expounding of ancient knowledge?  I would be curious to see what everyone comes up with.  Thanks! 

Well, I can't say this is a totally new idea or at least new issue - the early Church definitely had debates about the begotten nature of Yeshua. I can't say anything about that was ever settled, until we get to the Nicene Creed, which settled it in favor of unintelligible and unscriptural mumbo jumbo, imho. So, although this is not specifically addressed by Joseph Smith, it comes into play in order to understand the King Follett discourse. So although the Church does not understand it, it will be a paramount "restored truth" or at least a restored issue in the sense that I don't believe the early Church debates ever fully settled on the correct scriptural interpretation concerning it. The Protestant Reformation just totally ignored there being any issue, so really the issue I don't believe has really resurfaced to the extent it was discussed in the early Church. But it will.

[pogi]

32 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

" new " has the same problem in definition as " soon " does when referring to the Lord's coming.

If I buy a used car it is ' new ' to me .

Technically there is nothing ' new ' under the sun .

someone may find' new' evidence for the Global Flood, but it would likely be quite old.

New rarely means something that was never in existence before. More likely it means recycled, reorganized, repurposed, rediscovered etc. , renewed if you will.

That is an interesting take, but do we believe that there is no new truths reserved for this dispensation?  Do we believe that all revelations in this dispensation are, and will be, restorative in nature?  I don't know how that squares with the 9th article of faith. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by pogi

[pogi]

54 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

The problem we've run into is when many of these claims have been proven to be false historically, it erodes the trust we can have in their literal accuracy assuming that you are talking about actual claims with historical validity. 

If the claims are exclusively in the metaphorical arena, then we ought to use words other than ancient restoration.  Perhaps restitution of eternal principles would be a better construct to describe what Mormonism is doing.  Its reconstituting eternal principles, not literally restoring ancient traditions because the claim that ancient traditions are being restored requires that there was an actual ancient tradition that is now being restored to its original traditional practice, and unfortunately the evidence hasn't backed up this claim.   

Any evidence against the restorative nature of revelations (as they claim to be), is not evidence that they are "new" revelations.  If anything, it would simply erode trust that they were revelations.  So again, I can't use revelations which claim to be restorative as examples of "new" revelation/knowledge to share with our Catholic brothers when they clearly claim to be restorative in nature.

[strappinglad]

The word ' new ' as in never before seen , is not found in the 9th article of faith , great and important yes. Now in the 10th article , there is the word NEW as in New Jerusalem. Is this a Jerusalem in a new place? a new purpose ? a never before seen Jerusalem ?

I have probably mentioned this story before , but I will add it here, During my mission a former Catholic monk came through and gave a talk for one of our general missionary meetings. He spoke of knowing about eternal marriage etc. at the highest levels of the Catholic leadership , but such was not given to even the priest level. He was part of the ecumenical effort to discover all the various teachings in Christendom in order to seek some common ground. According to him, other churches were given a name based on the outstanding characteristic. The LDS church was referred to as " The Church of Revelation. " Take it for what you will.

Edited November 6, 2017 by strappinglad

[MiserereNobis]

4 hours ago, pogi said:

In the Pope thread, the discussion has raised questions about the difference between Mormon revelation and Catholic revelation.  With one claimed difference being that Mormonism believes that God can reveal new truths which have never before been revealed on Earth, while the Catholic version of revelation is not to reveal "new truths" but to clarify and expound upon previous truths which have already been revealed (if I understand correctly).

That got me thinking about examples of "new truths" that have been revealed in the last days... It was difficult for me to come up with any examples.  Mormonism, it seems, is mostly a restoration gospel with restored truths from all previous dispensations being brought to light in this, the dispensation of the fullness of times.  

I ask that you leave out revelations that include doctrinal clarifications, policy changes, organizational changes, and general direction of the church (mission callings etc.), as the Catholic Church also believes that they receive revelation for the same purposes.

The church teaches that the temple ordinances are ancient and have been around since the time of Adam: https://www.fairmormon.org/blog/2016/05/25/case-ancient-temple-ordinancesThe plan of salvation with different kingdoms is not new.  The pre-earth life and condition as intelligences, was revealed to Abraham.  Even the "New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage" is not really "new"- sealing and plural marriage is ancient and was restored. Baptism for the dead - not new. etc. etc. etc.  We believe that new scriptures are yet to be revealed, but while it may be "new" to us, it will only be a restoration of ancient knowledge.  So, can anyone give me an example of a truth that has been revealed in our dispensation that is not simply a restored truth, or an expounding of ancient knowledge?  I would be curious to see what everyone comes up with.  Thanks! 

This is an interesting LDS take on the question at hand. Thanks for raising it, pogi. I had never considered there could be a tension between "new" revelation and "restored" revelation in the LDS meaning.

While I'm not sure what is meant by the dispensations mentioned in these posts(Adam, Elijah, Malachi, etc), maybe I'll simply it to this question: Does the LDS church believe that there is a salvific doctrine that is known now that the Apostles (after Christ's resurrection) did not know?

This might help us get to a common understanding as to what is meant by revelation. The Catholic answer to the question is no, hence we say there is no further revelation, only clarification and better understanding brought about through the hard work of trying to live and understand it coupled with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by MiserereNobis

[pogi]

17 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

The word ' new ' as in never before seen , is not found in the 9th article of faith , great and important yes. Now in the 10th article , there is the word NEW as in New Jerusalem. Is this a Jerusalem in a new place? a new purpose ? a never before seen Jerusalem ?

You are right, that it doesn't use the word "new" in the 9th article of faith.  But I think it is generally interpreted that way.  To consider that all revelation in this dispensation is restorative in nature would be a new way of thinking about things for me. I have always considered that there are still "many great and important things" to be revealed in this dispensation concerning the Kingdom of Heaven.  Am I wrong to think that?  

[hope_for_things]

42 minutes ago, pogi said:

Any evidence against the restorative nature of revelations (as they claim to be), is not evidence that they are "new" revelations.  If anything, it would simply erode trust that they were revelations.  So again, I can't use revelations which claim to be restorative as examples of "new" revelation/knowledge to share with our Catholic brothers when they clearly claim to be restorative in nature.

I'm asking for evidence that any of the restorative revelations were actually traditions that were practiced anciently.  If they weren't then we shouldn't be claiming that they are a restoration of an ancient practice.  

[pogi]

3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

 Does the LDS church believe that there is a salvific doctrine that is known now that the Apostles (after Christ's resurrection) did not know?

We don't believe that there are any new salvific doctrines known today.  We believe that all of the priesthood keys necessary for performing the saving ordinances have been restored from all previous dispensation in this, the "dispensation of the fullness of times."  Even though Christ and the Apostles had the keys to perform the saving ordinances, there is no evidence that temple sealings, endowmnets, etc. were performed in Christ's time that I am aware of.  We do believe that these ordinances were understood and practiced in previous dispensations however. We teach that the dispensation of the fullness of times is the only time on earth when all saving ordinances necessary for the salvation of the living and the dead have been performed.  The later days are viewed as the culmination and circumscription of all truths, keys, ordinances, etc. taught and practiced in pieces in previous times, but never in their fullness.  Each angelic visitation of ancient prophets to Joseph Smith restored certain keys and knowledge known and practiced in their times and restored in ours.  

So yes, we do believe that all salvific ordinances are known and practiced today, but we don't necessarily believe that they have ever been known or practiced in their fullness in any other time.  

It is also important to distinguish between salvific doctrines/ordinances and knowledge/truths necessary for exaltation.  Exaltation requires us to know as God knows and see as God sees.  In that respect, we are not even close to having all truths necessary for exaltation revealed.  But I think those truths will be revealed on a more personal level, line upon line, instead of a church-wide level.  Exaltation can only be received through personal revelation.  So in terms of exaltation, we do believe that there are still salvific (or exaltic, rather) doctrines yet to be understood. 

Hop that makes sense.

[strappinglad]

I wonder if Adam and his family had a temple and the ordinances of salvation and exaltation to go with it. I assume that Enoch and his people had access to one, otherwise , from the sound of the type of society he had , something was missing. Then again, what kind of record keeping did they have ? Did it all go up with them? Oh ,to have access to the sealed portion of the plates. I am told that most of the temple program can be found within the pages of the New Testament. Anyone have a link to verify or refute this?

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I would disagree with you on the doctrine of sealing and eternal families.  I think that is new, I don't see it in ancient religious teachings.  Its new in that there is this idea that the entire human family is connected and that we need each other in order to obtain salvation.  At least I'm not aware of that explicit teaching in prior religions, but I'd be interested in learning more if there is evidence of that.  Its hard for humans to come up with truly unique and new ideas.  What we see with most innovation is that there is an incremental approach to learning and stepping stones from one idea to another.  

Sounds like you believe in religious evolution.  However, Mandaeans do have marriage sealing ceremonies for men & women, and the Coptic Orthodox seal with Myrrh oil for Confirmation.  The Gospel of Philip has a complete initiation, including (1) baptism by  immersion, (2) chrism-anointing, (3)  eucharist-thanks, (4) sote-ransom-redemption-salvation, and (5) bridal chamber/koiton = Holy of Holies.  Such rites of passage were normal throughout the ancient world -- see H. Nibley, The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri: An Egyptian Endowment (SLC: Deseret, 1975).  Even in the Bible we find similar rites:  washing, anointing, clothing, entering Temple proper (2 Sam 12:20, Ruth 3:3, Ex 29:4-11).  Cf. the three-level initiation into the Eleusinian Mysteries at Eleusis, about 14 miles west of Athens,^[1] and which, according to Plato, entailed the “proper rituals and sacrifices by means of which one obtained absolution from one’s own and one’s ancestors sins.”^[2]

---

^[1] David E. Aune, “The Eleusinian Mysteries,” Mystery Religions Lecture Series, 2, ed. H. Teeple (Evanston: REI, 1976), 3-4 (slides 10-11), 5 (slide 18); G. E. Mylonas, Eleusis and the Eleusinian Mysteries (Princeton Univ. Press, 1961).

^[2] W. Jaeger, Early Christianity and Greek Paedeia (Harvard Univ., 1961/ Oxford Univ. Press, 1969),58, and 8  n14, citing Plato, Republic, II:364bc.

Quote

The problem you'll run into in Mormonism is there are claims that all of these ideas existed anciently without any actual evidence to support those claims.  Just because Joseph or some other modern leader claimed a teaching is a restoration of something ancient doesn't make it so.  They were making these claims as part of a theological articulation of what Mormonism was doing. 

False.  Just the opposite is the case.  There is superabundant evidence of Mormon claims being ancient, but you need to articulate which items you take issue with -- since you are so vague about it here.  For example, non-Mormon scholar Ernst Benz has said of the Mormon doctrine of apotheosis:

Quote

Regardless of how one feels about the doctrine of progressive deification, one thing is certain: Joseph Smith’s anthropology of man is closer to the concept of man in the primitive church than that of the proponents of the Augustinian doctrine of original sin, who considered the idea of such a fundamental and corporeal relationship between God and man as the quintessential heresy.  Benz, “Imagio Dei: Man in the Image of God,” in T. Madsen, ed., Reflections on Mormonism (Provo, 1978), 201-219.  (bold added)

 

Quote

Its like claiming that the modern church is just a carbon copy of how Jesus organized a church during his life, unfortunately there isn't any evidence to show that Jesus did anything of that sort.   

It is a straw man to claim that Mormons claim "a carbon copy of" Jesus' church.  That's just silly.  They make no such claim.  However, they do correctly claim that the primitive Christian church has been restored in our day.  The NT "church" is usually Greek ʼekklēsia (Matt 16:18, Rev 22:16), but can also be Greek synagōgēn "assembly" (James 2:2), both being translations of OT and Qumran Hebrew ˁēdâ “congregation (of Israel),” or qĕhal/qāhāl.

The Twelve (or Fifteen, with three supervising priests at Qumran), and bishops, elders, and deacons were in charge of the earliest Christian churches, as a direct continuation of the officers of the Jewish synagogue,^[1] and of the Qumran covenant community.^[2]  

---

^[1] James T. Burtchaell, From Synagogue to Church: Public Services and Offices in the Earliest Christian Communities  (Cambridge Univ. Press, 1992); Hugh Nibley, Apostles and Bishops in Early Christianity, CWHN 15 (FARMS/Deseret, 2005).

^[2] R. E. Brown in J. H. Charles­worth, ed., John and Qumran (1972); enlarged as John and the Dead Sea Scrolls (Cross­road, 1990), 6-7; R. Brown, New Testament Essays, 27-30 (or 49-53); Joseph Baumgarten, “The Duodecimal Courts of Qumran, Revelation, and the Sanhedrin,” JBL, 95 (1976):59-78.

[pogi]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

I'm asking for evidence that any of the restorative revelations were actually traditions that were practiced anciently.  If they weren't then we shouldn't be claiming that they are a restoration of an ancient practice.  

To clarify, you believe that these are new revelations for our times which only claim to be ancient truths restored? A new truth sent in a false package?

I think I want to avoid that discussion here, so let me clarify my question.  Are there any revelations which the church claims are new and unique to our dispensation; which stand alone from ancient scripture?  It seems that in all of our teachings the church always references scripture as evidence of their ancient origins.

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, pogi said:

To clarify, you believe that these are new revelations for our times which only claim to be ancient truths restored? A new truth sent in a false package?

I’m just saying that when the church makes a claim such as, Adam & Eve practiced a religious ritual in the same manner as how it’s practiced in Mormonism, then their ought to be some actual evidence to support a claim of ancient practice that mirrors the modern one.