Book of Mormon original manuscript being readied for publication

[theplains]

6 hours ago, snowflake said:

With only 28% of the original manuscript,  how do we know for certain that many plain and precious truths were not removed?

How ironic that the Book of Mormon leads some to believe that it was from the Bible that plain and precious
truths were removed.

Jim

[cdowis]

4 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Either way that's missing the point.  We don't know what was on the plates corresponds with what is the book of Mormon.  No one does.  No one referred to the plates to know.  Thus, there's no way for us to know if this will get us closer to the plates. 

In the midst of this light, but a few feet from us, appeared a table upon which were many golden plates, also the sword of Laban and the directors. I saw them as plain as I see you now, and distinctly heard the voice of the Lord declaring that the records of the plates of the Book of Mormon were translated by the gift and power of God.”9

Edited September 1, 2017 by cdowis

[longview]

5 hours ago, stemelbow said:

i wonder what other, at that point, useless earthly items will be sitting amongst the many billions of for us to view as we travel through the heavenly museums on our days of creating and overseeing.  

If they are useless, they probably will be burned during the "Fervent Heat" of the Second Coming as the Earth is cauterized of Telestial elements and become a Terrestrial Abode.  At the end of the Millennium, there will be an even more serious burn as the planet is transformed into a glorious crystal sphere (Urim&Thummim planet if you will).  There you will be able to gaze back into time to see any particulars that you sincerely care about.

5 hours ago, stemelbow said:

How man ther gold plates will there be from other planets?

If I remember right, there are uncountable "Earths" presently undergoing the "Plan of Redemption" in this creative generation (an eternal round) but only ONE Earth (our planet) is the place for the "Atonement/Crucifixion of the Son of God" (it would not be repeated).  My understanding from the temple ceremonies is that there were "MULTIPLE FALLS" initiated by each planet's Adam/Eve.  (Sudden thought:  how many Michaels are there?)

If there are "Gold Plates" on those planets, they will NOT contain their "Crucifixion Events".  However, their prophets could convey revelations concerning the life of the Savior on our Earth.  Maybe all the other Earths were convulsed in like manner with synchronization as it happened in 34 CE (give or take) on our Earth.  I would not doubt that the "Parable of the Vineyard" (numerous pruning and grafting of various nations and peoples) is played out on all the worlds.  (Sudden thought:  how many Angel Moronis are there?)

[Atheist Mormon]

On 8/31/2017 at 2:22 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Very interesting that fragments are still being found.  Thanks for your story.

My mind is quite perplexed by this news; What are we going to see anything new in this manuscript? Since Joseph Smith delivered BoM top humanity? 

[Scott Lloyd]

39 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

My mind is quite perplexed by this news; What are we going to see anything new in this manuscript? Since Joseph Smith delivered BoM top humanity? 

This post is unintelligible. 

[strappinglad]

Is proof reading a lost art?

[Atheist Mormon]

54 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This post is unintelligible. 

What part, please quote; "My mind is quite perplexed by this news; What are we going to see anything new in this manuscript? Since Joseph Smith delivered BoM to humanity? " (There was a typo}

Edited September 2, 2017 by Atheist Mormon
typo

[Atheist Mormon]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

And this is supposed to give me pause why, exactly?

Well, if you remember BoM was the most correct book...."Skousen will be the first to admit that your BOM is not the same as the printer's edition BOM." What's the point here to publish all this if this is the fact.....It doesn't reinforce anything ...... 

[Calm]

13 hours ago, stemelbow said:

i wonder what other, at that point, useless earthly items will be sitting amongst the many billions of for us to view as we travel through the heavenly museums on our days of creating and overseein

 

 

12 hours ago, stemelbow said:

And the plates, if they somehow survive, will seem like useless old, rusty objects we need to throw out.  My guess is the plates don't contain the story that is the Book of Mormon.

And yet if they do, God seems to consider records rather important and he has valued then highly in mortality.

"2 I wrote a few words of revelation to you concerning a recorder. I have had a few additional views in relation to this matter, which I now certify. That is, it was declared in my former letter that there should be a ^arecorder, who should be eye-witness, and also to hear with his ears, that he might make a record of a truth before the Lord."

"And he also taught them concerning the recordswhich were engraven on the ^aplates of brass, saying: My sons, I would that ye should remember that were it not for these ^bplates, which contain these recordsand these commandments, we must have suffered in ^cignorance, even at this present time, not knowing the mysteries of God"

"11 Therefore he took the records which were engraven on the plates of ^abrass, and also the plates of ^bNephi, and all the things which he had kept and preserved according to the commandments of God, after having translated and caused to be written the records which were on the ^cplates of gold which had been found by the people of Limhi, which were delivered to him by the hand of Limhi;"

"13 And now behold, this was the desire which I desired of him—that if it should so be, that my people, the Nephites, should fall into transgression, and by any means be ^adestroyed, and the Lamanites should not be ^bdestroyed, that the Lord God would ^cpreserve a record of my people, the Nephites; even if it so be by the power of his holy arm, that it might be ^dbrought forth at some future day unto the Lamanites, that, perhaps, they might be ^ebroughtunto salvation"

"1 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded me, wherefore I did make plates of ore that I might engraven upon them the ^arecord of my people. And upon the plates which I made I did ^bengraven the record of my ^cfather, and also our journeyings in the wilderness, and the prophecies of my father; and also many of mine own prophecies have I engraven upon them."

12 And I, Nephi, had also brought the records which were engraven upon the ^aplates of brass; and also the ^bball, or ^ccompass, which was prepared for my father by the hand of the Lord, according to that which is written.

1 It is the duty of the Lord’s clerk, whom he has appointed, to keep a ^ahistory, and a general church ^brecord of all things that transpire in Zion, and of all those who ^cconsecrate properties, and receive ^dinheritances legally from the bishop;

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, that there are ^arecords which contain much of my gospel, which have been kept back because of the ^bwickedness of the people;

And ^athousands were brought to the knowledge of the Lord, yea, thousands were brought to believe in the ^btraditions of the Nephites; and they were taught the ^crecords and prophecies which were handed down even to the present time.

------

"7 That in all your recordings it may be ^arecorded in heaven; whatsoever you ^bbind on earth, may be bound in heaven; whatsoever you loose on earth, may be loosed in heaven;"

3 Nevertheless, ye are ^ablessed, for the ^btestimonywhich ye have borne is ^crecorded in heaven for the angels to look upon; and they rejoice over you, and your ^dsins are forgiven you

----______

God seems to have a very different view of records, their purpose and how he intends to use them...if you accept the records we have as sharing communications from the Lord.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Well, if you remember BoM was the most correct book...."Skousen will be the first to admit that your BOM is not the same as the printer's edition BOM." What's the point here to publish all this if this is the fact.....It doesn't reinforce anything ...... 

Correct has more than one meaning:

"

 

CORRECT, adjective [Latin , to set right; right, straight. See Right.] Literally, set right, or made straight. Hence, right; conformable to truth, rectitude or propriety, or conformable to a just standard; not faulty; free from error. A correct edition of a book is exactly according to the original copy. correct manners correspond with the rules of morality and received notions of decorum. correctprinciples coincide with the truth. correct language is agreeable to established usage.

CORRECT, verb transitive [Latin  See Right.]

1. To make right; to rectify; to bring to the standard of truth, justice, or propriety; as, to correct manners or principles. Hence, 

2. To amend; to remove or retrench faults or errors; to set right; as, to correct a book; to correct a copy for the press; or in printing, to correct the press, or errors of the press.

3. To bring back or attempt to bring back to propriety in morals; to punish for faults or deviations from moral rectitude; to chastise; to discipline; as, a child should be corrected for lying.

CORRECT thy son, and he shall give thee rest. Proverbs 29:17.

4. To obviate or remove whatever is wrong or inconvenient; to reduce or change the qualities of any thing by mixture, or other application; to counteract whatever is injurious; as, to correct the acidity of the stomach by alkaline preparations; to correct the relaxing quality of water by boiling it with animal substances."

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Correct

"

In discussing why the Prophet called the Book of Mormon the most correct book, we need to examine Joseph Smith’s complete statement. He said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461; italics added.)

Above all other considerations, it is the doctrine contained in the Book of Mormon that makes it the most correct of books. The Book of Mormon establishes better than any other book the plain and precious truths of the gospel, many of which have been lost from the Bible. As we read in 1 Nephi 13:40 [1 Ne. 13:40], “These last records … shall establish the truth of the [Bible] … and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from [it].”"

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/08/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

What part, please quote; "My mind is quite perplexed by this news; What are we going to see anything new in this manuscript? Since Joseph Smith delivered BoM to humanity? " (There was a typo}

The whole thing.

[champatsch]

Good to watch or listen to this for a lot of reliable information on the original manuscript:

 

[Atheist Mormon]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Correct has more than one meaning:

"

 

CORRECT, adjective [Latin , to set right; right, straight. See Right.] Literally, set right, or made straight. Hence, right; conformable to truth, rectitude or propriety, or conformable to a just standard; not faulty; free from error. A correct edition of a book is exactly according to the original copy. correct manners correspond with the rules of morality and received notions of decorum. correctprinciples coincide with the truth. correct language is agreeable to established usage.

CORRECT, verb transitive [Latin  See Right.]

1. To make right; to rectify; to bring to the standard of truth, justice, or propriety; as, to correct manners or principles. Hence, 

2. To amend; to remove or retrench faults or errors; to set right; as, to correct a book; to correct a copy for the press; or in printing, to correct the press, or errors of the press.

3. To bring back or attempt to bring back to propriety in morals; to punish for faults or deviations from moral rectitude; to chastise; to discipline; as, a child should be corrected for lying.

CORRECT thy son, and he shall give thee rest. Proverbs 29:17.

4. To obviate or remove whatever is wrong or inconvenient; to reduce or change the qualities of any thing by mixture, or other application; to counteract whatever is injurious; as, to correct the acidity of the stomach by alkaline preparations; to correct the relaxing quality of water by boiling it with animal substances."

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Correct

"

In discussing why the Prophet called the Book of Mormon the most correct book, we need to examine Joseph Smith’s complete statement. He said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts than any other book.” (History of the Church, 4:461; italics added.)

Above all other considerations, it is the doctrine contained in the Book of Mormon that makes it the most correct of books. The Book of Mormon establishes better than any other book the plain and precious truths of the gospel, many of which have been lost from the Bible. As we read in 1 Nephi 13:40 [1 Ne. 13:40], “These last records … shall establish the truth of the [Bible] … and shall make known the plain and precious things which have been taken away from [it].”"

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/08/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

I'm still not in the clear exactly;

Is the Church going to make some some corrected modifications in BoM when it deems necessary? 

[thesometimesaint]

13 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Well, if you remember BoM was the most correct book...."Skousen will be the first to admit that your BOM is not the same as the printer's edition BOM." What's the point here to publish all this if this is the fact.....It doesn't reinforce anything ...... 

It is the most correct book in the principles it provides, not necessarily the spelling or punctuation used.

[champatsch]

The scribes were not good spellers, not even OC in 1829. The spelling in O is not good. Conjectural emendations sometimes have to be made. "Ishmael and also his hole hole" is a prime example (1 Nephi 7:5). An edit has to be made. Better to make it by textual analysis than by mere guesswork: "Ishmael, and also his whole household".

[Atheist Mormon]

8 hours ago, champatsch said:

The scribes were not good spellers, not even OC in 1829. The spelling in O is not good. Conjectural emendations sometimes have to be made. "Ishmael and also his hole hole" is a prime example (1 Nephi 7:5). An edit has to be made. Better to make it by textual analysis than by mere guesswork: "Ishmael, and also his whole household".

Now I have a better understanding the scope of the project, I watched Skousen's video a little (while trying to keep up with) 4 college football games.....I was very intrigued when he said "while I was doing the research/reading the manuscript I have not seen any intervention of the Lord" . This is not exactly a news for Atheists like me but it is interesting to note that the counterpart of BoM....Bible still let's us read pseudo Paul or Peter....Of course with the late research its gotten alot easier to figure out what part of the Bible is forgery. Luckily here in Bom's case we have only one author and plenty evidence....Anyway.....my intention was not a criticism but redundancy of the work already performed many times. 

Edited to add; And I cannot contain my smugness every time when Fundamentalist Christians have a cow about the phrase "As far as translated correctly". I still don't know how Joseph figured out that part.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Atheist Mormon

[blueglass]

On 9/1/2017 at 2:06 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Because the first edition (and subsequent editions until his death) were prepared under the supervision of the Prophet Joseph Smith, who obtained the copyright for the book (I've been to the Library of Congress and seen the copy that Joseph Smith submitted for obtaining the copyright). 

If there had been some plan afoot by the typesetter to leave out or change content ( a really off-the-wall notion, but I'll entertain it for a moment to humor you) it would have been caught immediately by Joseph and his scribe, Oliver Cowdery, who supervised the typesetting every step of the way and proofread the printing in advance as any conscientious author (or, in this case, translator) would do. 

Hardy lists around 36 changes from the original from the research by skousen

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2013/03/the-2013-adjustments-to-the-book-of-mormon-accuracy-delayed/

[Scott Lloyd]

13 hours ago, blueglass said:

Hardy lists around 36 changes from the original from the research by skousen

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithpromotingrumor/2013/03/the-2013-adjustments-to-the-book-of-mormon-accuracy-delayed/

I just watched the lecture by Royal Skousen linked to above. He said there were transmission errors in both the original and printer's manuscripts (minor things like punctuation, spelling, misheard dictating, etc.).

But he said that they stopped the press a lot to fix things. In one signature (group of 16 pages) alone they stopped the press five times to make corrections in the typesetting. So there was conscientious proofing going on in the printing process to make the product as good as they could. 

And there were fixes made in subsequent editions as well. 

Both the printer's manuscript and the original manuscript (which, at one point, was temporarily used in the typesetting) were marked up for typesetting. And John Gilbert, the printer, made some punctuation corrections "on the fly" while the book was being typeset.

 Skousen made an interesting remark that the original manuscript, which averaged three errors per page, should have been used exclusively for the printing, because the printer's manuscript averaged an additional three errors per page. 

[blueglass]

31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I just watched the lecture by Royal Skousen linked to above. He said there were transmission errors in both the original and printer's manuscripts (minor things like punctuation, spelling, misheard dictating, etc.).

Some of the changes from the original (O) are significant.  For example Alma speaking to his son Corianton said, "acknowledge your faults and repair that wrong which ye have done" Alma 39:13.

Compare with the current 2013 edition.

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, blueglass said:

Some of the changes from the original (O) are significant.  For example Alma speaking to his son Corianton said, "acknowledge your faults and repair that wrong which ye have done" Alma 39:13.

Compare with the current 2013 edition.

There's another fairly substantial one that I'm aware of but I can't quite recall what it is. 

But the instances that altered the meaning in any substantial respect are quite rare, and Skousen said there was nothing that changed any of the theology. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/1/2017 at 10:53 AM, stemelbow said:

How man ther gold plates will there be from other planets?

There are just as many plates as are required, neither more nor less.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Gervin]

On 9/1/2017 at 2:29 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

I'll add here that the earliest extant copies of the books of the Bible are already hundreds of years removed from the original writings. This contrasts sharply with the circumstance of the Book of Mormon translation by Joseph Smith, for which the original manuscript is extant, even if only in partial form. 

Huh? The original manuscript is missing in action; it's contained on the gold plates, per the church's beliefs. The "translation" that is the Book of Mormon has no known connection to an original manuscript.  

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, Gervin said:

Huh? The original manuscript is missing in action; it's contained on the gold plates, per the church's beliefs. The "translation" that is the Book of Mormon has no known connection to an original manuscript.  

So I gather you stipulate the existence of the plates and their historicity then. 

[Gervin]

17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So I gather you stipulate the existence of the plates and their historicity then. 

What plates? 😋