Ayla Stewart "Infuriated" by LDS Church's Condemnation of White Culture

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

But that is not how culture is defined or you would be categorizing Scottish, English, and Irish culture as the same culture...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/science/05cnd-brits.html

 

58 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Like Calm said, that's not how culture is defined.  It's not defined by what the dominate race is of the people who practice it.   It doesn't matter what the dominate racial make up is of any culture, it doesn't mean that the culture can be described as that race's culture.

Isn't "culture" defined by a civilization? If a civilization like Scotland composed of 97% whites, is that not "white culture". And, within culture of a civilization there are subcultures? Do not the various subcultures collectively define a culture?

 

 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

 

Isn't "culture" defined by a civilization? If a civilization like Scotland composed of 97% whites, is that not "white culture". And, within culture of a civilization there are subcultures? Do not the various subcultures collectively define a culture?

 

 

No, it's not white culture, it's Scottish culture.  

[Darren10]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

No, it's not white culture, it's Scottish culture.  

Well, I definite it as white culture when definite by race. Of course, all races are welcome to participate in bagpipe playing, kilt wearing, and stone throwing. 

[Darren10]

On 8/26/2017 at 0:03 PM, Darren10 said:

I think it's important to note that the Church's statement condemning those who promote white culture emphasized that descriptor with quotation marks. The Church did not condemn white culture but "white culture". If you here me speak what Ai wam typing you would hear a distinct shift in my tone to emphasize the differences between white culture and "white culture". Obviously you phonetically cannot shift in writing so the Church used quotations. 

I think this means that the LDS Church is not condemning the promotion of white culture insofar as that means honoring and promoting things white or caucasian culture has accopmlished, which is many. It is condemning the idea that white or caucasian (which I think is actually a Native American term describing a specific tribe) culture is superior to that of non-white culture, which it absolutely is not and which promotion has historically lead to devestating results. 

 

On 8/26/2017 at 3:04 PM, Darren10 said:

To me anyone can promote any culture so long as they do not declare that culture inherently superior to others and do not blame their problems on others not of their culture. Of course there may be varying degrees of applicability to this line of thinking but that's the fundamental rubric I follow. 

When I say promote white culture I refer to cultures which have been traditionally predominately white. I credit these cultures for developing many of today's great medicines, technonogies, and establishing and spreading modern-day democracies throughout the world. These are great are blessings. I explicitly oppose excluding non whites from recieving their credit. Even in white cultural areas, of course you may find many non whites contributing to the betterment of the world snd they are due their just credits as well. 

I think you did great assimilating into the middle eastern culture. I've no doubt that that has helped you learn good things. The number one thing I enjoy about Uber driving is the many different prople I get to meet and to learn a little but about them. 

I think where white supremecists, including Ayla Stewart, get the Church wrong in denouncing the Church's condemnation of promoting "white culture" is that the Church is not condemning white people to say they are proud to be white or that white cultures have achieved great things for the world and for their specific subcultures but that the Church condemns "white culture" in that people view whites as inherently superior to non whites and actively seek to create a whites only or white superiority in society. This is evil and the Church is right to  condemn such a point of view. It goes directly against all human beings being children of the same God and that He loves them all equally. They are all precious to Him. 

 

22 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Oh, I think there actually is a white culture. in face Danes, Scots, and Germans all make up a part of "white culture". Eating Havarti cheese, playing the bagpipes, listening to Mozart, etc. are parts of white culture. In fact, these are all culturing enriching. It's that these should not be excluded from others who are non whites from fully participating. Nor should they be viewed as inherently "superior" to other cultures.

Correct. and that is why I think the church placed white culture in quotations in their condemnation of those who promote it. It's the racist element which the Church condemns, not the cultural compliments whites have made in the world.

 

16 hours ago, Darren10 said:

You're correct and what you described is not only normal but good. "Cultures that exist among white people" is not condemned by the Church but I think Ayla Stewart and White Nationalists and Nazis portrays the Church's condemnation as such. "Cultures that exists among white people" is definitely different than "white culture" which the Church condemns in the sense that "white culture" proponents seek to establish a "whites only" or white superiority over non whites. 

Within England, not England collectively, is there "no shared white culture" or white cultures? Within Denmark, not Denmakr collectively, is here "no shared white culture" or white cultures? How could that be if these cultures are predominantly white? 

Note that I had previously qualified my distinction in this manner. That there is a difference between white culture and "white culture". 

My dumb I

Pad (more likely my ignorant self) won't highlight the "I think" comments I made so I can bold them. I quote myself to emphasize that I am creating a category based on race. A culture category. I've outlined the justifications for my doing so and my intent is not to challenge already defined parameters of "culture" but to reflect on the way white nationalists, like Ayla Stewart and others, think. Perhaps the Church placed white culture in quotation marked because it doesn't exist. I think they placed it there because they condemn the notation that whites are superior to non-whites. So, if you want engage my thinking, please do, please challenge them. I welcome it but understand wharere I am coming from. Unless my thinking cannot exist or cannot be a reality at all, I do not see the point in telling me that what I think doesn't exist. 

On this note, I have reflected upon the criticism of the Book of Mormon being "racists". Within the dialogue already given it became clear to me that the Nephites never defined their enemies' actions as from "the dark skinned people" but as "Lamanites". I see this as a strength to Kathrine the Great, BlueBell, and Calm. The Book of Mormon does not define culture by skin color but by people of a civilization. So I do appreciate our dialogue leading me or that point. Despite that, my thinking still stands. When a culture is defined by race, and I very much think it can be, there is white culture. What there is not is racial superiority. Such a belief does no good and only hinders one in his or spiritual progress. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

Well, I definite it as white culture when definite by race. Of course, all races are welcome to participate in bagpipe playing, kilt wearing, and stone throwing. 

It just doesn't make sense to try to say that because Scotts are mostly white, Scottish culture is white culture.  That would be like saying that because potatoes are eaten mostly by Chinese people that potatoes are Chinese food.   

[The Nehor]

So has she been excommunicated yet?

[BlueDreams]

22 hours ago, Darren10 said:

You're correct and what you described is not only normal but good. "Cultures that exist among white people" is not condemned by the Church but I think Ayla Stewart and White Nationalists and Nazis portrays the Church's condemnation as such. "Cultures that exists among white people" is definitely different than "white culture" which the Church condemns in the sense that "white culture" proponents seek to establish a "whites only" or white superiority over non whites. 

Within England, not England collectively, is there "no shared white culture" or white cultures? Within Denmark, not Denmakr collectively, is here "no shared white culture" or white cultures? How could that be if these cultures are predominantly white? 

Note that I had previously qualified my distinction in this manner. That there is a difference between white culture and "white culture". 

White culture is more like white amnesia in the US or an ignorant sense of greater affiliation with other whites than other races. What I mean by white amnesia is the sense by many whites in the US that they either don't have a culture....or that it's from some other part of their identity they place more emphasis on...such as religion, class, or country. Though those can also effect our cultural expression or experience....it's not the same. I remember in a class I took that all of us had to make something called a "cultural genorgram" Which entailed pinpointing the varying ethnic groups that we hail from and learning our family "rules" or expectations. There was a book that then noted cultural trends based on different ethnic groups. Several of my white peers were surprised to realize the cultural influences that remained from the groups they hailed from. My white family holds some strong German/British roots and it distinctly showed in how they relate to each other, discuss, and what's expected in the family. 

What "white culture" does exist is more about in-grouping practices and being the majority race in these countries. That's not a culture, that's an experience. It's not the same. So for example the irish and italians all of a couple generations ago wouldn't have been considered white. The were outside the experience of being white while still maintaining distinct cultures. Now they are considered white, but they still maintain distinctive cultural attributes. I believe the white nationalist groups are an off-shoot from this sense of white amnesia that allows race to be confused with culture. 

 

As for Ayla: I keep snickering and thinking it's hard to kick against the pricks isn't it....and then feeling oddly happy that she is not. 

With luv,

BD

Edited August 29, 2017 by BlueDreams

[hagoth7]

On 8/26/2017 at 4:07 PM, Calm said:

We refused to switch to meters in spite of it being the intelligent thing to do, I doubt we will be dropping Caucasian any time soon,

I think it was important to hold/keep the Old English measures for a sufficient period of time to make an important point.

After that point has fully passed, I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. switch to metric.

Edited August 29, 2017 by hagoth7

[Glenn101]

I guess that we are a long way from our being able to see or even try to see other people, races, cultures, etc. as God sees them.

[The Nehor]

19 minutes ago, Glenn101 said:

I guess that we are a long way from our being able to see or even try to see other people, races, cultures, etc. as God sees them.

Degenerate fallen people rebelling against light and truth and rejecting the beauty of Zion while preferring the false traditions of their fathers?  

[The Nehor]

36 minutes ago, hagoth7 said:

I think it was important to hold/keep the Old English measures for a sufficient period of time to make an important point.

After that point has fully passed, I wouldn't be surprised to see the U.S. switch to metric.

You are one of those traitors to the monarchy aren't you? If the Imperial system is good enough for our divinely appointed sovereign it is good enough for me.

[hagoth7]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You are one of those traitors to the monarchy aren't you?....

I gave my solemn promise to defend the principles of the Constitution.

But I was born and still remain a Canadian citizen.

Interpret that as you wish.  (Or simply ask a skousen.)

Edited August 29, 2017 by hagoth7

[Darren10]

17 hours ago, bluebell said:

It just doesn't make sense to try to say that because Scotts are mostly white, Scottish culture is white culture.  That would be like saying that because potatoes are eaten mostly by Chinese people that potatoes are Chinese food.   

If you *include* food as per who eats them, yes, that would actually be accurate. Linguistically-speaking, Chinese is the esiest language in the world to learn since there are more Chinese speakers in the world than any other language. Tht is not ot say it's easy to learn but when your rubric is people-based, that is the conclusion. So when 97% of people who do a particular thing are white how is that not a "white thing"? 

[Darren10]

12 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

White culture is more like white amnesia in the US or an ignorant sense of greater affiliation with other whites than other races. What I mean by white amnesia is the sense by many whites in the US that they either don't have a culture....or that it's from some other part of their identity they place more emphasis on...such as religion, class, or country. Though those can also effect our cultural expression or experience....it's not the same. I remember in a class I took that all of us had to make something called a "cultural genorgram" Which entailed pinpointing the varying ethnic groups that we hail from and learning our family "rules" or expectations. There was a book that then noted cultural trends based on different ethnic groups. Several of my white peers were surprised to realize the cultural influences that remained from the groups they hailed from. My white family holds some strong German/British roots and it distinctly showed in how they relate to each other, discuss, and what's expected in the family. 

What "white culture" does exist is more about in-grouping practices and being the majority race in these countries. That's not a culture, that's an experience. It's not the same. So for example the irish and italians all of a couple generations ago wouldn't have been considered white. The were outside the experience of being white while still maintaining distinct cultures. Now they are considered white, but they still maintain distinctive cultural attributes. I believe the white nationalist groups are an off-shoot from this sense of white amnesia that allows race to be confused with culture. 

 

As for Ayla: I keep snickering and thinking it's hard to kick against the pricks isn't it....and then feeling oddly happy that she is not. 

With luv,

BD

The German / English backgrounds were white so far as race is concerned, correct? How is that not white culture for your white family? The "white culture" Ayla belongs to purports white superiority. She is in the wrong.

[Gray]

19 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Well, I definite it as white culture when definite by race. Of course, all races are welcome to participate in bagpipe playing, kilt wearing, and stone throwing. 

So the French are historically white. Does that mean their culture also includes bagpipe playing, kilt wearing and stone throwing? It must, because that's "white culture", right? 

 

[Darren10]

2 minutes ago, Gray said:

So the French are historically white. Does that mean their culture also includes bagpipe playing, kilt wearing and stone throwing? It must, because that's "white culture", right? 

 

Nope, it includes losing all of their wars unless they are bailed out but ther people. The only exception is the French Revolution. Either way, the French won that war all on its own.

[Gray]

3 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Nope, it includes losing all of their wars unless they are bailed out but ther people. The only exception is the French Revolution. Either way, the French won that war all on its own.

Great, so there is no such thing as white culture.

[Darren10]

9 minutes ago, Gray said:

So the French are historically white. Does that mean their culture also includes bagpipe playing, kilt wearing and stone throwing? It must, because that's "white culture", right? 

 

 You conflated race with nationality. I am not talking about nationality when I talk about the existence of white culture, I am talking about race being the factor used to define aculture. For those of Scottish descent, kilts and bagpipes would be part of their heritage. I lnow of a fellow blogger who has no Scottish ancestery, at least none that I recall him declaring, who decided to stsrt wearing a kilt. He's white and while there is absolutely no reason to whites for wearing a kilt the chances of your seeing one in my case knowing of one is pretty slim I'd say. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

Just now, Gray said:

Great, so there is no such thing as white culture.

No, there's no such thing as a French victory. 

[Gray]

7 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

 You conflated race with nationality. I am not talking about nationality when I talk about the existence of white culture, I am talking about race being the factor used to define aculture. For those of Scottish descent, kilts and bagpipes would be part of their heritage. I lnow of a fellow blogger who has no Scottish ancestery, at least none that I recall him declaring, who decided to stsrt wearing a kilt. He's white and while there is absolutely no reason to whites for wearing a kilt the chances of your seeing one in my case knowing of one is pretty slim I'd say. 

There is no culture associate with white people. All rabbits are mammals, not all mammals are rabbits. 

[Gray]

7 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

No, there's no such thing as a French victory. 

Without the French, there would be no United States. 

[Darren10]

14 minutes ago, Gray said:

There is no culture associate with white people. All rabbits are mammals, not all mammals are rabbits. 

But all mammals are classified according to physical traits. Why can't culture be classified based on race. Is there no such thing as black culture?

[Darren10]

14 minutes ago, Gray said:

Without the French, there would be no United States. 

Or the Polish. The victory of the United states is not a French victory though they did contribute to its victory, that's for sure.

Merci à tous les français.

[Gray]

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

But all mammals are classified according to physical traits. Why can't culture be classified based on race. Is there no such thing as black culture?

There is no such a thing as black culture if you mean all people of African heritage. But there is such a thing as African American culture. There's a shared experience within a limited geographic area. 

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

There is no such a thing as black culture if you mean all people of African heritage. But there is such a thing as African American culture. There's a shared experience within a limited geographic area. 

But cannot people of Africa heritage be described as people of a black culture? In other words, one typically uses race to classify subcultures, I ask why one cannot use race to classify a culture? 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Darren10