MormonLeaks: Snuffer/Remnant believers

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I didn't mean to suggest that they have a problem with secrecy... I think some are using it as a way to rationalize their staying in the church while also believing in Snuffer's claims and teachings.

That makes sense if they accept that Joseph taught polygamy, though according to Snuffer there was no secrecy because there was no polygamy on Joseph's part if I understand correctly (I need to read his own stuff on this again).

[rockpond]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

That makes sense if they accept that Joseph taught polygamy, though according to Snuffer there was no secrecy because there was no polygamy on Joseph's part if I understand correctly (I need to read his own stuff on this again).

You're right.  Good point. 

[rockpond]

10 minutes ago, e-eye said:

I think they may have hit their peak or at least their momentum has slowed some.  Case in point: https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/first-blog-post/

There are some remnant folk who are not too happy with what recently went down with one of the members.  Word is Denver is about to take on the Davidic Servant  and will be asking the members/fellowshippers to make a covenant.  

Having family in this movement I have watched it closely but not so much the last year or so - kind of jumped back into it when somebody shared the link above on LDSFF.

One thing for certain is that the church will have a sifting and although I don't see too many members jumping on this - it's mostly people who were out the door looking for something anyway.  

Do you have anything to support that last statement?  The members I know who have been re-baptized and joined the movement were very much active, believing, and "in".  But I admittedly don't know many. 

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, e-eye said:

I think they may have hit their peak or at least their momentum has slowed some.  Case in point: https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/first-blog-post/

There are some remnant folk who are not too happy with what recently went down with one of the members.  Word is Denver is about to take on the Davidic Servant  and will be asking the members/fellowshippers to make a covenant.  

Having family in this movement I have watched it closely but not so much the last year or so - kind of jumped back into it when somebody shared the link above on LDSFF.

One thing for certain is that the church will have a sifting and although I don't see too many members jumping on this - it's mostly people who were out the door looking for something anyway.  

Looks like one of the disenchanted Remnant folk was one of the couple who built my house.  Knew she was into alternative medicine and prepper stuff, so this is not too surprising.

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, rockpond said:

You're right.  Good point. 

There is this weird tension between secret, mystical knowledge and 'everything in the light ' claim in this and other fringe groups, in my opinion.  Not seeing it balanced very well.

[rpn]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Denver Snuffed, whether he acknowledges is or not, seems to be setting himself up as a prophet.  ...... 

In his most recent revelation, published last week or the week before, Answer and Covenant, the revelation does say David is in charge.

This was a revelation Snuffer had previously asked everyone to pray to get at the September conference.  But it was published in the middle of the current discussion of someone working on the new scriptures doing so at the same time he was committing adultery, which apparently was serial in nature, and therefore was referred to a council, who took away his priesthood certificate to use it outside his own home.   Snuffer defended the man, but didn't attend the council long enough to hear the evidence, and got pretty upset when the council (of women, which is how they do it) defied him.    Now people are questioning how the new scriptures can be valid given the revelations came at a time when he was sleeping with people other than his legal wife.

And, yes, he did claim he'd had the Second Anointing.

Edited August 24, 2017 by rpn

[The Nehor]

Started reading his "revelation". God did not use the Oxford Comma as he does in the D&C. How can people fall for such an obvious fraud?  

Edit: Okay, I read the whole revelation now. They really need a better writer. Whoever it is tries to capture the cadence of the D&C but mixes in jarring modern phrases.

God also reviewed a dictionary and explained the meanings of the names Lucifer and Satan. God also attempts a very awkward and unnecessary vineyard comparison.

God also explains marriage and how Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob need their wives to be exalted. However God appears to only recognize Sarah, Rebekah, and Rachel. Sorry Leah. You didn't make the cut. Keturah, you can see yourself out of exaltation. Seriously, why would you try to teach a lesson on monogamy and choose polygamists as your examples?

Edited August 24, 2017 by The Nehor

[ksfisher]

27 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Started reading his "revelation". God did not use the Oxford Comma as he does in the D&C. How can people fall for such an obvious fraud?  

 

If I ever start writing revelations please be assured that I will use the Oxford comma.   

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

If I ever start writing revelations please be assured that I will use the Oxford comma.   

It is also worth noting that they were praying about punctuation and God told them they could figure it out on their own. Clearly not.

[Avatar4321]

8 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I don't mean to mock.

But reading some of these prophecies/scripture from Denver has me intrigued:

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/pgp/david/

An odd viewpoint, to say the least. I would love to be half the man David was. Considered a man after the Lords heart.

[Avatar4321]

4 hours ago, rpn said:

In his most recent revelation, published last week or the week before, Answer and Covenant, the revelation does say David is in charge.

This was a revelation Snuffer had previously asked everyone to pray to get at the September conference.  But it was published in the middle of the current discussion of someone working on the new scriptures doing so at the same time he was committing adultery, which apparently was serial in nature, and therefore was referred to a council, who took away his priesthood certificate to use it outside his own home.   Snuffer defended the man, but didn't attend the council long enough to hear the evidence, and got pretty upset when the council (of women, which is how they do it) defied him.    Now people are questioning how the new scriptures can be valid given the revelations came at a time when he was sleeping with people other than his legal wife.

And, yes, he did claim he'd had the Second Anointing.

How can one receive the Second Anointing if the priesthood and keys have been taken from the Church?

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

An odd viewpoint, to say the least. I would love to be half the man David was. Considered a man after the Lords heart.

He is most likely disingenuously doing it to try to fulfill the prophecies regarding a descendant of David or someone by the name David in the Last Days you can pick out of the Old Testament.

13 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

How can one receive the Second Anointing if the priesthood and keys have been taken from the Church?

Presumably he is claiming to have received it before the keys were taken away. They had to because, according to him, they lost all their power the moment they excommunicated him. Certainly does not lack for a sense of self-importance there does he?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

He is most likely disingenuously doing it to try to fulfill the prophecies regarding a descendant of David or someone by the name David in the Last Days you can pick out of the Old Testament.

Presumably he is claiming to have received it before the keys were taken away. They had to because, according to him, they lost all their power the moment they excommunicated him. Certainly does not lack for a sense of self-importance there does he?

Or perhaps he thinks the Second Anointing is not given by the Church, but is something that can be done on one's own like he sees baptism, etc.

[Scott Lloyd]

13 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Did you see anything where these letters/emails are dated.  One thing I keep wondering is if this is a growing movement or has already hit its peak?  I'm not sure, but that would be interesting to know.  

I think the church is trying to address these issues without also bringing too much publicity to it.  Its a matter of trying to gauge the potential impact of more public pronouncements and whether or not that will have a net negative or positive impact.  How interesting the dynamics at play here with the more these more apocalyptic and fundamental Mormons.  You have to admire their tenacity and commitment to these beliefs on some level.  Thanks for sharing! 

Why do you have to admire it? Zealotry and fanaticism are not inherently praiseworthy.

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, stemelbow said:

I'd agree.  But it does make me wonder--how does a remnant movement get footing in an area.  I'd love to sit by and watch it grow.  I just can't imagine it getting any footing in my area. 

My hunch is that it happens through word of mouth in much the same way that spurious or unwise investment schemes get going. It's sometimes called affinity fraud. You listen to a trusted friend or family member going off on it, you get caught up in the fear- or emotion-based rhetoric and before you realize it you are hooked. If you've ever been to a family gathering and seen an eccentric uncle or cousin getting relatives spun up over something weird, it is easy to see how something like this could take hold.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, ksfisher said:

If I ever start writing revelations please be assured that I will use the Oxford comma.   

Not if you adhere to AP style. (Just sayin'.)

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

My hunch is that it happens through word of mouth in much the same way that spurious or unwise investment schemes get going. It's sometimes called affinity fraud. You listen to a trusted friend or family member going off on it, you get caught up in the fear- or emotion-based rhetoric and before you realize it you are hooked. If you've ever been to a family gathering and seen an eccentric uncle or cousin getting relatives spun up over something weird, it is easy to see how something like this could take hold.

A relative got invited to a presentation years ago, she was told it was something along the lines of a Education week speaker and it was an End timers prepper speaker who was going off on visions she had...same thing as Julie Rowe, only earlier.  Both she and the woman who invited her were into nontraditional medicine, but the other woman has since gone into extremes.  She was shocked to see a number of people she knew, including another member of their ward who she considered highly intelligent and educated and she told him she thought it was all rather out there and nonsense, thinking he would agree, but he was really into it.  I know he has tried to proselyte some others in the ward who had also gone into nontraditional medicine because traditional not helping them, but they didn't like the fear based paradigm so they rejected it.

These days, it is easy enough to find all this stuff online if you go looking.  You don't have to rely on neighbours or family anxious to spread the word, though it may trigger an interest.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

A relative got invited to a presentation years ago, she was told it was something along the lines of a Education week speaker and it was an End timers prepper speaker who was going off on visions she had...same thing as Julie Rowe, only earlier.  Both she and the woman who invited her were into nontraditional medicine, but the other woman has since gone into extremes.  She was shocked to see a number of people she knew, including another member of their ward who she considered highly intelligent and educated and she told him she thought it was all rather out there and nonsense, thinking he would agree, but he was really into it.  I know he has tried to proselyte some others in the ward who had also gone into nontraditional medicine because traditional not helping them, but they didn't like the fear based paradigm so they rejected it.

These days, it is easy enough to find all this stuff online if you go looking.  You don't have to rely on neighbours or family anxious to spread the word, though it may trigger an interest.

Beyond triggering an interest, it can be a powerful propellant when the endorsement comes from a beloved or admired friend or relative.

[ksfisher]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not if you adhere to AP style. (Just sayin'.)

Some things are too important to be bound by AP style.  

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Some things are too important to be bound by AP style.  

Just kidding. 

(sheesh. Tough crowd.)

[ksfisher]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Just kidding. 

(sheesh. Tough crowd.)

The Oxford comma is too important to kid about.

[stemelbow]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

My hunch is that it happens through word of mouth in much the same way that spurious or unwise investment schemes get going. It's sometimes called affinity fraud. You listen to a trusted friend or family member going off on it, you get caught up in the fear- or emotion-based rhetoric and before you realize it you are hooked. If you've ever been to a family gathering and seen an eccentric uncle or cousin getting relatives spun up over something weird, it is easy to see how something like this could take hold.

Sure.  This is the best method ever used to get converts to the Church, no doubt.  A member gains trust and admiration from family or friends and those family and friends listen to his religious explanations and either get hooked, or run for the hills.  I suppose the same process works to some extent for members who get converted to Snuffer's unique views. 

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not if you adhere to AP style. (Just sayin'.)

Stop blaspheming please.

[Scott Lloyd]

 

 

40 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Stop blaspheming please.

??????

Edited August 24, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[hope_for_things]

9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why do you have to admire it? Zealotry and fanaticism are not inherently praiseworthy.

All depends on your POV, lots of people in this world think your average Mormon fits those descriptions.