Broker Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 I noticed a topic asking what we really know about God the Father, and it reminded me of a "I wonder if..." thought I've had for awhile. As I sometimes tell my wife, "there may be no doctrinal statements about this, but I bet I'm right". Maybe this topic has come up before. I think that we are not all children of the same "Heavenly Father". I think we all have different sets of heavenly parents that created (whatever that means) and raised us as spirit children in the pre-mortal existence. I believe there is a Supreme Being that we refer to as Heavenly Father, that may be more akin to a grandfather or ancestral father. I believe the Supreme Being establishes all the laws, conditions and so forth that create order in the Universe and in the creations over which He rules. I live in large southern California metropolis. I see hundreds, maybe thousands of people everyday and of course there are untold billions that have lived before and that may yet live. I understand we believe "God" is all powerful and I suppose He could have individually created and raised all of us in the pre-mortal life, but at some point the sheer number of people seems to get ridiculous even for an omnipotent being. I don't know that I will ever progress to become like the Supreme Being or that I ever want to attain that level of "godhood" with all it's responsibilities. But I can easily envision desiring more posterity in the next life. Why wouldn't God allow some of His children to create their own spiritual children and send them to "earths" like ours, where we could watch over them and help them as appropriate. I, of course, have no doctrinal basis for these ideas, except that everything about the Mormon Gospel seems to be very logical and make a lot of sense. I could easily see this fitting in. I'm also in the process of memorizing the Proclamation on the Family. I did notice that the word "God" and "Eternal Father" are always capitalized, but the term "heavenly parents" is not. Just saying.... "ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents" Anybody else out there ever have similar thoughts ?
Darren10 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 24 minutes ago, Broker said: I noticed a topic asking what we really know about God the Father, and it reminded me of a "I wonder if..." thought I've had for awhile. As I sometimes tell my wife, "there may be no doctrinal statements about this, but I bet I'm right". Maybe this topic has come up before. I think that we are not all children of the same "Heavenly Father". I think we all have different sets of heavenly parents that created (whatever that means) and raised us as spirit children in the pre-mortal existence. I believe there is a Supreme Being that we refer to as Heavenly Father, that may be more akin to a grandfather or ancestral father. I believe the Supreme Being establishes all the laws, conditions and so forth that create order in the Universe and in the creations over which He rules. I live in large southern California metropolis. I see hundreds, maybe thousands of people everyday and of course there are untold billions that have lived before and that may yet live. I understand we believe "God" is all powerful and I suppose He could have individually created and raised all of us in the pre-mortal life, but at some point the sheer number of people seems to get ridiculous even for an omnipotent being. I don't know that I will ever progress to become like the Supreme Being or that I ever want to attain that level of "godhood" with all it's responsibilities. But I can easily envision desiring more posterity in the next life. Why wouldn't God allow some of His children to create their own spiritual children and send them to "earths" like ours, where we could watch over them and help them as appropriate. I, of course, have no doctrinal basis for these ideas, except that everything about the Mormon Gospel seems to be very logical and make a lot of sense. I could easily see this fitting in. I'm also in the process of memorizing the Proclamation on the Family. I did notice that the word "God" and "Eternal Father" are always capitalized, but the term "heavenly parents" is not. Just saying.... "ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents" Anybody else out there ever have similar thoughts ? God and Eternal Father are used as proper names as well as titles thus capitalized. Heavenly parents are not used as proper names thus not capitalized. The first thing which came to mind regarding your inquiry and belief was the Book of Moses for it teaches us that there are numerous worlds and numerous populations upon these worlds. A quick search through the chapter headings I found this: "6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of graceand truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all. 7 And now, behold, this one thing I show unto thee, Moses, my son, for thou art in the world, and now I show it unto thee. 8 And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered." (Snip) 27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the Spirit of God. 28 And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore. (Snip) 31 And behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me. 32 And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. 33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten. (Moses 1; bold mine) from here alone we may conclude thst Gofd the Father created "worlds without number", that the inhabitants of this earth are numbered before God, that even the particles used to make this esrth are numbered before God. Moses was able to "discern" these particles and inhabitants by the power of God so why can't God? Furthermore, Moses "greatly marveled and wondered" regarding sll of this earth's inhabitants so there's empathy in this scripture for your post in that man cannot comprehend God's accomplishments. Neither can we comprehend His power / ability but clearly the scriptures testify thst God knows "all things". We are all created by the same Heavenly Father and He knows us all.
CV75 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Broker said: Anybody else out there ever have similar thoughts ? However it works, I wouldn't think our heavenly parentage (however diverse it might be) would entail a "them and us" attitude. Edited April 29, 2017 by CV75
RevTestament Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 10 hours ago, Broker said: I noticed a topic asking what we really know about God the Father, and it reminded me of a "I wonder if..." thought I've had for awhile. As I sometimes tell my wife, "there may be no doctrinal statements about this, but I bet I'm right". Maybe this topic has come up before. I think that we are not all children of the same "Heavenly Father". I think we all have different sets of heavenly parents that created (whatever that means) and raised us as spirit children in the pre-mortal existence. I believe there is a Supreme Being that we refer to as Heavenly Father, that may be more akin to a grandfather or ancestral father. I believe the Supreme Being establishes all the laws, conditions and so forth that create order in the Universe and in the creations over which He rules. I live in large southern California metropolis. I see hundreds, maybe thousands of people everyday and of course there are untold billions that have lived before and that may yet live. I understand we believe "God" is all powerful and I suppose He could have individually created and raised all of us in the pre-mortal life, but at some point the sheer number of people seems to get ridiculous even for an omnipotent being. I don't know that I will ever progress to become like the Supreme Being or that I ever want to attain that level of "godhood" with all it's responsibilities. But I can easily envision desiring more posterity in the next life. Why wouldn't God allow some of His children to create their own spiritual children and send them to "earths" like ours, where we could watch over them and help them as appropriate. I, of course, have no doctrinal basis for these ideas, except that everything about the Mormon Gospel seems to be very logical and make a lot of sense. I could easily see this fitting in. I'm also in the process of memorizing the Proclamation on the Family. I did notice that the word "God" and "Eternal Father" are always capitalized, but the term "heavenly parents" is not. Just saying.... "ALL HUMAN BEINGS—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents" Anybody else out there ever have similar thoughts ? No. Not like yours. Just like our Heavenly Father is the "Father of spirits" so too will Jesus be called the eternal Father per Isaiah 9:6 and per Isaiah 65 will inherit the eternal mountains of our Heavenly Father. So this is a spiritual thing - not a physical thing. Per the King Follet sermon and Abraham, spirits are eternal and have always been - have always existed. We are begotten in the spirit when we decide to follow - get baptized, etc.
SeekerB Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 For your theory to be true, God is not our father, but instead, a very, very, distant ancestor for almost all of us. This contradicts everything revealed about Heavenly Father and our relationship to him.
Darren10 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, SeekerB said: For your theory to be true, God is not our father, but instead, a very, very, distant ancestor for almost all of us. This contradicts everything revealed about Heavenly Father and our relationship to him. My thoughts exactly.
Broker Posted April 29, 2017 Author Posted April 29, 2017 Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'm way off base, or maybe I'm far ahead...probably way off base. (secretly I'm saying to myself...."I bet I'm right"). 1
RevTestament Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 Isaiah 62:5 5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God arejoice over thee.
Calm Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 I have heard the theory that Joseph taught we have been spirits eternally, not first intelligence being molded into spirit (some of his teachings suggest two stage, not three stages) and that as Christ becomes our adoptive Father, so did Heavenly Father adopt us as his spirit child. I could see Broker's theory as an adaption of this. If someone is interested I will try and dig up the explanation, but no guarantees.
Maidservant Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) Honestly, I think we are all co-eternal with God, per the scripture that says that. So whatever has happened in that vast eternity, twists and turns and lots of bits, I'm sure we've had many, many connections in whatever way that gets put together or we choose it; and our preparation for and entrance into this particular world, and the shape it has taken including the relationships, are but an instant in that eternity. D&C 93:29,33 Abraham 3:18 Edited April 29, 2017 by Maidservant 1
Darren10 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Calm said: I have heard the theory that Joseph taught we have been spirits eternally, not first intelligence being molded into spirit (some of his teachings suggest two stage, not three stages) and that as Christ becomes our adoptive Father, so did Heavenly Father adopt us as his spirit child. I could see Broker's theory as an adaption of this. If someone is interested I will try and dig up the explanation, but no guarantees. My suspicion is that if joseph Smith did teach this as per our current historical record that whatever documents we have on this matter are not historically trustworthy. That' like the King Follett Discourse, its preservation are that of several testimonies of the original event, after (perhaps long after) the even took place.
Darren10 Posted April 29, 2017 Posted April 29, 2017 5 hours ago, Broker said: Thanks for the feedback. Maybe I'm way off base, or maybe I'm far ahead...probably way off base. (secretly I'm saying to myself...."I bet I'm right"). I think in terms of figuring our God, our philosophies should be based directly from scripture; not based on other philosophies even though those may ultimately trace back to scripture. "secretly I'm saying to myself...."I bet I'm right"" That you're "way off base"? Well, then we agree.
mnn727 Posted April 30, 2017 Posted April 30, 2017 Quote D&C 93:29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. Which tells me the process is more akin to adoption rather than birth. 1
The Nehor Posted April 30, 2017 Posted April 30, 2017 On this kind of topic we take the tidbits we have and try to construct logical narratives and connect the tidbits together to form an idea of what the whole looks like. Meanwhile God looks down on our cute childish reasoning and chuckles. 1
Five Solas Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 On 4/28/2017 at 10:14 PM, Broker said: ... Anybody else out there ever have similar thoughts ? Not I. But if I were still LDS, I might chalk up the diversity you witness in your S. California metropolis to different heavenly mothers (is lower-case here appropriate?--no idea). Polygamy is an eternal principle we've been told (whether we actually listened or cared--that's a different matter). So it stands to reason the LDS heavenly father has a few. And just like Brigham Young had his favorites, well, you get the picture. This comfortably explains why we have different races and why some seem to invariably draw the short-end of the proverbial stick. It's certainly more satisfying than that old canard about fence-sitters in the pre-mortal existence. Am I wrong? ;0) --Erik ___________________________________________ Promises me I'm as safe as houses As long as I remember who's wearing the trousers --Depeche Mode, 1987 1
thesometimesaint Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 On 4/29/2017 at 8:59 AM, SeekerB said: For your theory to be true, God is not our father, but instead, a very, very, distant ancestor for almost all of us. This contradicts everything revealed about Heavenly Father and our relationship to him. God the Father is the literal father of our Spirits.
thesometimesaint Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 On 4/30/2017 at 8:05 PM, Five Solas said: Not I. But if I were still LDS, I might chalk up the diversity you witness in your S. California metropolis to different heavenly mothers (is lower-case here appropriate?--no idea). Polygamy is an eternal principle we've been told (whether we actually listened or cared--that's a different matter). So it stands to reason the LDS heavenly father has a few. And just like Brigham Young had his favorites, well, you get the picture. This comfortably explains why we have different races and why some seem to invariably draw the short-end of the proverbial stick. It's certainly more satisfying than that old canard about fence-sitters in the pre-mortal existence. Am I wrong? ;0) --Erik ___________________________________________ Promises me I'm as safe as houses As long as I remember who's wearing the trousers --Depeche Mode, 1987 In the LDS faith all humans are of the same race. The race of Gods.
theplains Posted May 2, 2017 Posted May 2, 2017 On 29/04/2017 at 4:16 PM, Calm said: I have heard the theory that Joseph taught we have been spirits eternally, not first intelligence being molded into spirit (some of his teachings suggest two stage, not three stages) and that as Christ becomes our adoptive Father, so did Heavenly Father adopt us as his spirit child. Is Abraham 3:18 a theory or a revelation to you? "Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal. Thanks, Jim
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