When was the last time you read the BoM?

[CMZ]

On 11/28/2016 at 0:00 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Well, could it possibly be that 19th century American Protestantism was not that far off the mark?

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/witness-restoration/church-history-and-doctrine/joseph-smith-and-only-true-and-living

I know all those quotes but it leaves my question unanswered. If it had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it then I wonder why 19th Century Protestants were so against it. It seems like the more likely reaction from 19th Century Protestants to a book that had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it would be a loving embrace of the book or perhaps a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders. But we all know the real reaction was much different than that.

[churchistrue]

5 hours ago, CMZ said:

I know all those quotes but it leaves my question unanswered. If it had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it then I wonder why 19th Century Protestants were so against it. It seems like the more likely reaction from 19th Century Protestants to a book that had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it would be a loving embrace of the book or perhaps a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders. But we all know the real reaction was much different than that.

Read Alexander Campbell's critique, for example.  Some of his objections seem pretty minor, but he really didn't like it.  For example, "This ignorant and impudent liar, in the next place, makes the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, violate his covenants with Israel and Judah, concerning the land of Canaan, by promising a new land to the pious Jew."  My reaction to that, is "dude, is it really that big of a deal?  calm down, bro."  I think a lot of the little doctrinal quibbles they had in those days have all become relatively minor in importance to us today, that we don't really see what the big deal is.

 

 

 

[LittleNipper]

It should be understood that as an evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, Bible believing Christian --- that I understand that true Christianity is not a religion. And the words I use as descriptive are merely that. Christianity is a relationship with God through Christ. There is no church through which an individual can be saved. There is no denomination that is the means of salvation. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the theme of the New Testament. Any other method no matter how sincere or noble falls short because "religion" tries to reach up for God. Christianity in its truest form is God reaching down to man and embracing him as His adopted child forever. God saves. Man cannot save himself. There are no saving rituals nor deeds. God sends His Holy Spirit who knocks at the door of an individuals heart/soul. God instills the faith, God nurtures that faith. Man can do only one of two things ---- Accept or Reject Christ. The rest becomes the work of the Lord.

Edited December 1, 2016 by LittleNipper

[rodheadlee]

16 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

It should be understood that as an evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, Bible believing Christian --- that I understand that true Christianity is not a religion. And the words I use as descriptive are merely that. Christianity is a relationship with God through Christ. There is no church through which an individual can be saved. There is no denomination that is the means of salvation. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the theme of the New Testament. Any other method no matter how sincere or noble falls short because "religion" tries to reach up for God. Christianity in its truest form is God reaching down to man and embracing him as His adopted child forever. God saves. Man cannot save himself. There are no saving rituals nor deeds. God sends His Holy Spirit who knocks at the door of an individuals heart/soul. God instills the faith, God nurtures that faith. Man can do only one of two things ---- Accept or Reject Christ. The rest becomes the work of the Lord.

If you accept Christ, then you would accept His work. If you reject His work then you reject Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints is His work.

Edited December 1, 2016 by rodheadlee

[Gray]

35 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

If you accept Christ, then you would accept His work. If you reject His work then you reject Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints is His work.

Nonsense. 

[rodheadlee]

12 minutes ago, Gray said:

Nonsense. 

 Which part?

[Gray]

5 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

 Which part?

The part where rejecting the church is the same as rejecting Jesus. 

[BlueDreams]

50 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

It should be understood that as an evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, Bible believing Christian --- that I understand that true Christianity is not a religion. And the words I use as descriptive are merely that. Christianity is a relationship with God through Christ. There is no church through which an individual can be saved. There is no denomination that is the means of salvation. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the theme of the New Testament. Any other method no matter how sincere or noble falls short because "religion" tries to reach up for God. Christianity in its truest form is God reaching down to man and embracing him as His adopted child forever. God saves. Man cannot save himself. There are no saving rituals nor deeds. God sends His Holy Spirit who knocks at the door of an individuals heart/soul. God instills the faith, God nurtures that faith. Man can do only one of two things ---- Accept or Reject Christ. The rest becomes the work of the Lord.

No offense, but isn't this off topic? The thread is about when you'd read the Book of Mormon and what you learned from it. 

Bringing this back on topic a little, the Book of Mormon is simply another testament of Jesus Christ. Litterally says it on the title page. For an example of this see this passage in Mosiah 3:9-12

Quote

 

 8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, theFather of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

 9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

 10 And he shall rise the third day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to judge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.

 11 For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who haveignorantly sinned.

 

And even moreso in the next chapter:

Quote

 

2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoningblood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.

 3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the wordswhich king Benjamin had spoken unto them.

 4 And king Benjamin again opened his mouth and began to speak unto them, saying: My friends and my brethren, my kindred and my people, I would again call your attention, that ye may hear and understand the remainder of my words which I shall speak unto you.

 5 For behold, if the knowledge of the goodness of God at this time has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness, and your worthless and fallen state—

 6 I say unto you, if ye have come to a knowledge of the goodness of God, and his matchless power, and his wisdom, and his patience, and his long-suffering towards the children of men; and also, the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world, that thereby salvation might come to him that should put his trust in the Lord, and should be diligent in keeping his commandments, and continue in the faith even unto the end of his life, I mean the life of the mortal body—

 7 I say, that this is the man who receiveth salvation, through the atonement which was prepared from the foundation of the world for all mankind, which ever were since the fall of Adam, or who are, or who ever shall be, even unto the end of the world.

 8 And this is the means whereby salvation cometh. And there is none other salvation save this which hath been spoken of; neither are there any conditions whereby man can be saved except the conditions which I have told you.

 

 

Your positive assertions that I highlighted are absolutely true. The Book of Mormon clearly iterates that.  As a Bible and Book of Mormon believer I firmly believe that there is no other way or name to Salvation than Christ and his Atonement. I am solely dependent on him for salvation. Many of the negative assertions is where we diverge. I would state that it's not an either/or scenario.  Either it's Christ or religion. Either it's Christ or saving rituals. Either it's our Savior or Church. That is a philosophical bend defined by the religious descriptors you've described that I do not see as solely accurate based even on just the bible itself.   

 

With luv,

BD

[Jeanne]

2008.  Between 2002-2004, I read it 5 times.  Loved it.  Believed it.

[bluebell]

I usually read or listen to it every day.  Yesterday i pondered on whether or not Moroni was mad at his dad for praying that he would live to see the downfall of the Nephites.  Sometimes dead is so much easier and i'm sure Moroni's last years were not fun.

Deep thoughts.....  

[Jeanne]

Just now, bluebell said:

I usually read or listen to it every day.  Yesterday i pondered on whether or not Moroni was mad at his dad for praying that he would live to see the downfall of the Nephites.  Sometimes dead is so much easier and i'm sure Moroni's last years were not fun.

Deep thoughts.....  

Nothing wrong with deep thoughts.

[CMZ]

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

It should be understood that as an evangelical, born-again, fundamentalist, Bible believing Christian --- that I understand that true Christianity is not a religion. And the words I use as descriptive are merely that. Christianity is a relationship with God through Christ. There is no church through which an individual can be saved. There is no denomination that is the means of salvation. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is the theme of the New Testament. Any other method no matter how sincere or noble falls short because "religion" tries to reach up for God. Christianity in its truest form is God reaching down to man and embracing him as His adopted child forever. God saves. Man cannot save himself. There are no saving rituals nor deeds. God sends His Holy Spirit who knocks at the door of an individuals heart/soul. God instills the faith, God nurtures that faith. Man can do only one of two things ---- Accept or Reject Christ. The rest becomes the work of the Lord.

Without trying to prove here that "Mormonism is true" I will say that the goal of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is to help each individual establish just such a relationship as you are talking about. In many ways the Church also considers itself as only scaffolding to support Christ's teachings and gospel being taught and administered within family units.

[LittleNipper]

5 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

If you accept Christ, then you would accept His work. If you reject His work then you reject Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints is His work.

Do you reject the Roman Catholic Church? Do you reject the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, Baptist Church, Moravian Church, etc? Are they not God's handiwork too? Or could it be that some individuals who attend those churches are being conformed to the image of Christ (God's work). I attend a church to fellowship with like minded believers who hold to the inerrancy of God's Holy Word. I do realize that hymns, novels, prayers, works of art, architecture, and scientific research have been aimed at trying to inspire people to consider and realize GOD. However, just because something seems to be inspiring, doesn't make such divine or a necessary part of SCRIPTURE. 

I see that the Old Testament paves the way for the coming of the Messiah. However, would I suggest that Handel's Messiah was inspired to be part of GOD's work the Bible, or that the Bible inspired Handel? As it is, I have found that the book of Mormon, while saying many noble things and even containing passages from the Bible, I do not see that it enhances the establishment of the Messiah, His nativity, or His sacrificial work upon the cross, resurrection, ascension, nor eventual return as Ruler over the entire earth in the line of David.

I have read the Book of Mormon. However, I find it lacks any coherence with the Bible (New & Old Testament) any more than Ben Hur, The Chronicles of Narnia, or Lord of the Rings. They have been inspired by the Bible, yet they are not Scripture. They all lack the authorship of GOD himself.  

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by LittleNipper

[Bernard Gui]

12 hours ago, CMZ said:

I know all those quotes but it leaves my question unanswered. If it had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it then I wonder why 19th Century Protestants were so against it. It seems like the more likely reaction from 19th Century Protestants to a book that had such a 19th Century Protestant feel to it would be a loving embrace of the book or perhaps a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders. But we all know the real reaction was much different than that.

One has to be trained for the ministry.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

I have read the Book of Mormon. However, I find it lacks any coherence with the Bible (New & Old Testament) any more than Ben Hur, The Chronicles of Narnia, or Lord of the Rings. They have been inspired by the Bible, yet they are not Scripture. They all lack the authorship of GOD himself.  

Perhaps you should read it again?

[rodheadlee]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Do you reject the Roman Catholic Church? Do you reject the Lutheran Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, Baptist Church, Moravian Church, etc? Are they not God's handiwork too? Or could it be that some individuals who attend those churches are being conformed to the image of Christ (God's work). I attend a church to fellowship with like minded believers who hold to the inerrancy of God's Holy Word. I do realize that hymns, novels, prayers, works of art, architecture, and scientific research have been aimed at trying to inspire people to consider and realize GOD. However, just because something seems to be inspiring, doesn't make such divine or a necessary part of SCRIPTURE. 

I see that the Old Testament paves the way for the coming of the Messiah. However, would I suggest that Handel's Messiah was inspired to be part of GOD's work the Bible, or that the Bible inspired Handel? As it is, I have found that the book of Mormon, while saying many noble things and even containing passages from the Bible, I do not see that it enhances the establishment of the Messiah, His nativity, or His sacrificial work upon the cross, resurrection, ascension, nor eventual return as Ruler over the entire earth in the line of David.

I have read the Book of Mormon. However, I find it lacks any coherence with the Bible (New & Old Testament) any more than Ben Hur, The Chronicles of Narnia, or Lord of the Rings. They have been inspired by the Bible, yet they are not Scripture. They all lack the authorship of GOD himself.  

 

My wife was raised Catholic, I was raised Presbyterian, we studied with the Baptist. these are preparatory churches, As soon as we found that Christ had his actual, personal church here on earth we joined. These other churches gave us the background to accept The Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints as Christ's own church.

[LittleNipper]

11 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

 

I have read the Book of Mormon more than once. Who in it is a direct ancestor of Jesus?

Edited December 2, 2016 by LittleNipper

[Woody]

I have not yet read the Book of Mormon for the last time.

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

I have read the Book of Mormon more than once. Who in it is a direct ancestor of Jesus?

God...

[Avatar4321]

33 minutes ago, Woody said:

I have not yet read the Book of Mormon for the last time.

Nor have I. I've been reading the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi. It's very clear that Isaiah prophecies that the Lord would lift an ensign to the nations in the last day. Very interesting that we are the only ones boldly proclaiming that the ensign has been established

[Avatar4321]

12 hours ago, Jeanne said:

2008.  Between 2002-2004, I read it 5 times.  Loved it.  Believed it.

I encourage you to read it again.:)

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I have read the Book of Mormon more than once. Who in it is a direct ancestor of Jesus?

In the Bible where is the USA in end time prophecy?

[LittleNipper]

7 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

In the Bible where is the USA in end time prophecy?

The Bible is primarily about Christ and His relationship to man through Israel. It is likely that the United States could be decimated by the Rapture (home to a high percentage of Christians) and may have little or no specific influence in future events. There is some alluding to the Eagle in Daniel; however, this is speculative at best. 

Edited December 2, 2016 by LittleNipper

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

The Bible is primarily about Christ and His relationship to man through Israel. It is likely that the United States could be decimated by the Rapture (home to a high percentage of Christians) and may have little or no specific influence in future events. There is some alluding to the Eagle in Daniel; however, this is speculative at best. 

Uh Huh. Ships of Tarshish, Gog, Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Phut, Ethiopia, Cush, Ten Toed Kingdoms, Persia, Babylonia, Israel, 2 million demons from the east, yeah everybody gets a mention but the Americas. The USA, the most powerful nation in the world, and a friend of Israel at the End Times and nary a peep. Why do think that is?

I'll give you a hint since I have to go to work. The answer lies in  John 10:16

Edited December 2, 2016 by rodheadlee

[Jeanne]

13 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I encourage you to read it again.:)

Would it be fiction...or non fiction this time?  So many more questions since the last time.