When was the last time you read the BoM?

[LittleNipper]

On 12/5/2016 at 3:47 PM, waveslider said:

How do you know that you are saved when it is only other human beings, all of which are flawed and have sinned, that tell you that you are saved? I have seen cases where the blind lead the blind and all of them are lost on other points of view, so why couldn't that be possible with this case as well. I am not saying that you aren't saved, only that you can't know for certain that you are actually saved unless Christ has told you so (usually through the Holy Ghost).

I'm not knocking your schooling, but a secular college/university isn't getting direct revelation from God. They don't even claim to, so to compare that with a living prophet and twelve living apostles who do claim to receive revelation doesn't make much sense. Have you ever wondered why the Pharisees and the like were at odds with what Christ was teaching, in His mortal ministry, and later his apostles after his death and resurrection? It is the same argument you seem to have. Do you deny that there is revelation still? If not then who gets revelation? Is God changeable? Did He stop revealing everything? If God did stop revealing things, how are you different than the group of people mentioned here, in prophecy, about what it would be like in our own days, now?:

"....Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof...."
2 Timothy 3:5

How, even with all of your schooling, do you actually know that the Bible has all of God's words so completely that God can now change and not need to reveal anything else at all? Again it appears that you trust people only?

Each and every single place in the Bible that you say talks about the, "Rapture," is a complete misunderstanding of when it is talking about what will happen at the very end of tribulations, during the time when all the righteous dead will resurrect and all the righteous living will all rise together to meet Christ in the air. This will be at the actual time of the second coming of Christ. If you actually read the verses that relate to whatever verse you think refers to the fictional rapture, usually the previous and following few verses to which ever one you can think of, you will see that it is indeed talking about Christ's second coming, not a rapture before that coming and the years of tribulation start. The righteous will be in the air while the whole world burns along with Christ, cleansing the world from all unrighteousness for Christ to return in His full glory, to reign for a thousand years on Earth:

"1  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2  ¶ But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."
Malachi 4:1-3

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
2 Peter 3:10

You can't say that the Baptism for the Dead ritual didn't exist in the Bible. If you truly understand as much about the Bible as you say, you would realize that the Sadducees didn't believe in resurrection at all. Since Paul mentions the ritual of Baptism for the Dead, but doesn't say it is wrong to do, it is pretty apparent that it was indeed a common ritual. Paul instead uses their obedience to that rite to prove to them that there is indeed a resurrection and that their belief that there is no resurrection is what is wrong:

"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
1 Corinthians 15:29

It is apparent because the entire chapter is focused on the theme of resurrection. The Bible is definitely missing scripture (If I remember correctly there are about 17 books of scripture referenced in the Bible as we know it, that don't exist, and a few more that are questionable as to being referred to) that the people in those days thought of as scripture. perhaps it was man who kept out Baptism for the Dead from being taught as a correct ritual to perform just as Baptism for the living is a correct rite. As far as eternal marriage. The marriage that God gave to Adam and Eve occurred before death was introduced onto mankind, so it was indeed meant to be an eternal marriage.

Celestial Kingdom is in the Bible. It speaks of multiple heavens, of resurrected bodies that match whichever glory they will end up residing in, and many mansions in our Father's house:

"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."
2 Corinthians 12:2

"39  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41  There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:"
1 Corinthians 15:39-43

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you."
John 14:2

Since God is the God of all of the world and the universe even, why would there only be scripture from one relatively small portion of the world, when we know that people were in other parts of the world at the same time. Is God a respecter of persons? Does He only want salvation to come to those who had access to the prophecies that occurred where the Bible took place at.

Again I would love for you to CFR that it is wrong to ask God, if scripture is indeed scripture from Himself? Unless you can, I can agree to disagree with you. Minds are like parachutes.... they have to be open in order to work properly. Perhaps it is time to stop relying solely upon the arm of flesh/mans wisdom and rely instead upon God's word which includes what is written in the bible, but also includes personal revelation from God through the Holy Ghost:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:13

Others are not telling me I'm saved. The Bible tells me I'm saved. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. By God's grace is one saved and not of works or someone might just boast. 

 

 

You need to understand that I am fully convinced that EVERYTHING God  wished revealed to man was perfectly revealed in the Bible. There is no missing information to what GOD furnished that anyone needs to know to be saved. The Bible is a completed work. That doesn't means that there are no questions. However, it does mean that God is also about building faith. Faith is accepting God without knowing everything. That is a big part of faith. The atheist cannot believe in God because he cannot see God. Yet God reveals Himself through creation and His Holy Word. The atheist has a very difficult time with this because he distorts creation, ridicules the Bible and shuns faith.

There are different schools of thought on what Jesus meant when He said, “born of water.”

One perspective is that “born of water” corresponds to physical birth. Unborn babies float in a sack of amniotic fluid. When the birth arrives, that sack ruptures, and the baby is born in a rush of water, entering the world as a new creature. This birth parallels being “born of the Spirit,” as a similar new birth occurs within one's heart (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person once-born has physical life; a person twice-born has eternal life (John 3:15–18, 36; 17:3; 1 Peter 1:23). Just as a baby contributes no effort to the birth process (the labor is carried out by the mother) so too spiritual birth. One is the recipient of God’s grace as He provides a new birth through His Spirit (Ephesians 2:8–9). According to this view, Jesus was applying an illustration employed by comparing a spiritual truth with a physical reality. Nicodemus did not understand spiritual birth, but he could understand physical birth so that was where Jesus took him.

Another perspective is that “born of water” refers to spiritual cleansing and that Nicodemus would have naturally understood it that way. According to this view, “born of water” and “born of the Spirit” are different ways of saying the same thing, once metaphorically and once literally. Jesus’ words “born of water and the Spirit” describe different aspects of the same spiritual birth, or of what it means to be “born again.” So, when Jesus told Nicodemus that he must “be born of water,” He was referring to his need for spiritual cleansing. In the Old Testament, water is used figuratively of spiritual cleansing. For example, Ezekiel 36:25 says, “I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities” (see also Numbers 19:17–19; and Psalm 51:2, 7). 

Into every life a little rain must fall or there is not growth towards maturity. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by LittleNipper

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

 

You need to understand that I am fully convinced that EVERYTHING God  wished revealed to man was perfectly revealed in the Bible. There is no missing information to what GOD furnished that anyone needs to know to be saved. The Bible is a completed work

I understand that is a matter of faith, but It appears to me that the Bible itself gives strong evidence contrary to that belief, that it requires living apostles and prophets as the foundation of the church of Christ.   "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" was a fundamental doctrine, and it is self-evident that is not the case among Christians, even an agreement in fundamental, salvation doctrines.

When Christ says, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God", does this gives us permission to disagree on the meaning of this teaching, to simply say, "Well, that's just a minor issue, just an one of those unanswered questions to be addressed when we stand at the Judgement Seat?"

I cannot believe in such a thing, and that is why the Lord gives us living prophets today, as Paul tells us in Eph 4:11-14;  

As my grandmother would say, "The Bible says it, and I believe it."

Edited December 7, 2016 by cdowis

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

You need to understand that I am fully convinced that EVERYTHING God  wished revealed to man was perfectly revealed in the Bible. There is no missing information to what GOD furnished that anyone needs to know to be saved. The Bible is a completed work. That doesn't means that there are no questions. However, it does mean that God is also about building faith. Faith is accepting God without knowing everything. That is a big part of faith. The atheist cannot believe in God because he cannot see God. Yet God reveals Himself through creation and His Holy Word. The atheist has a very difficult time with this because he distorts creation, ridicules the Bible and shuns faith.

Again you dance around my questions without answering them.

I understand that you are fully convinced, but I ask how do you know? In other words, how are you convinced? It seems you are at odds with what the Bible says concerning this:

"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."
Matthew 18:16

"This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
2 Corinthians 13:1

Christ tells us of other people who were to receive the word of God. Wouldn't it be the same for those other people, since God is unchangeable, that they would be writing those words of God down?:

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:16

The Bible is one witness of God's words, wouldn't it be the same way, as an unchangeable God, that He would utilize the other nation (sheep) as a second witness of His words, since, ".....every word....," is to be established by two or three witnesses, not just the Bible?

You allude knowledge as something we can't fully obtain because we have to have faith, but we are told that we will gain knowledge and wisdom a little at a time, if we have faith first:

"13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:13-14

Christ Himself explains how we can gain knowledge of things.... all things!:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 14:26

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
John 15:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:13

If the Holy Ghost can teach us; all things, help us remember Christ's words, testify of Christ, guide us into all truth, tell us exactly what God says to tell us, and even show us things to come, how come he can't tell us if the Bible, BoM, or anything else that claims to be the word of God is, or isn't such?

And unless you think God is done with all His work you can't ignore this:

"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
Amos 3:7

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

There are different schools of thought on what Jesus meant when He said, “born of water.”

I am well aware of the different schools of thought of what was meant by born of Water and of Spirit, but with further study of the scriptures you will find that it is pretty evident that it means the baptism of Water and of the Spirit:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
Matthew 3:11

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 2:38

"2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"
Hebrews 6:2-4

"14  Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15  Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16  (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:14-17

That said you still haven't answered any of the basic questions I have repeatedly asked of you, two of which are CFRs:

1. CFR that the Bible says we should not pray to see if scripture is indeed of God?

2. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? Or to be more direct from the way you avoided answering it this time around, How are you convinced that the Bible is all the word of God and that there isn't any more words of God?

3. CFR that Baptism for the Dead was a common, pagan, Greek ritual?

By the rules of this discussion board you are supposed to answer CFRs. It is alright to admit that you were mistaken and that there aren't any, but we aren't just supposed to say things out of the blue and expect to not have to back it up, unless of coarse we are only stating an opinion, in which case I think you should make that known. So before you dance around these questions, avoiding them, I suggest you just simply answer them, then we can move the discussion further before just going all over the place with everything. It doesn't make for a good discussion if we are just scattered, willy nilly, going in all different directions.

Edited December 7, 2016 by waveslider
Had to delete a redundant scripture reference

[LittleNipper]

19 hours ago, waveslider said:

Again you dance around my questions without answering them.

I understand that you are fully convinced, but I ask how do you know? In other words, how are you convinced? It seems you are at odds with what the Bible says concerning this:

"But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established."
Matthew 18:16

"This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
2 Corinthians 13:1

Christ tells us of other people who were to receive the word of God. Wouldn't it be the same for those other people, since God is unchangeable, that they would be writing those words of God down?:

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
John 10:16

The Bible is one witness of God's words, wouldn't it be the same way, as an unchangeable God, that He would utilize the other nation (sheep) as a second witness of His words, since, ".....every word....," is to be established by two or three witnesses, not just the Bible?

You allude knowledge as something we can't fully obtain because we have to have faith, but we are told that we will gain knowledge and wisdom a little at a time, if we have faith first:

"13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."
Hebrews 5:13-14

Christ Himself explains how we can gain knowledge of things.... all things!:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 14:26

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
John 15:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
John 16:13

If the Holy Ghost can teach us; all things, help us remember Christ's words, testify of Christ, guide us into all truth, tell us exactly what God says to tell us, and even show us things to come, how come he can't tell us if the Bible, BoM, or anything else that claims to be the word of God is, or isn't such?

And unless you think God is done with all His work you can't ignore this:

"Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
Amos 3:7

I am well aware of the different schools of thought of what was meant by born of Water and of Spirit, but with further study of the scriptures you will find that it is pretty evident that it means the baptism of Water and of the Spirit:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
Matthew 3:11

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 2:38

"2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"
Hebrews 6:2-4

"14  Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15  Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16  (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:14-17

That said you still haven't answered any of the basic questions I have repeatedly asked of you, two of which are CFRs:

1. CFR that the Bible says we should not pray to see if scripture is indeed of God?

2. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? Or to be more direct from the way you avoided answering it this time around, How are you convinced that the Bible is all the word of God and that there isn't any more words of God?

3. CFR that Baptism for the Dead was a common, pagan, Greek ritual?

By the rules of this discussion board you are supposed to answer CFRs. It is alright to admit that you were mistaken and that there aren't any, but we aren't just supposed to say things out of the blue and expect to not have to back it up, unless of coarse we are only stating an opinion, in which case I think you should make that known. So before you dance around these questions, avoiding them, I suggest you just simply answer them, then we can move the discussion further before just going all over the place with everything. It doesn't make for a good discussion if we are just scattered, willy nilly, going in all different directions.

God doesn't make exceptions. The one thief on the cross had an awakening on that cross. He was never immersed in water.

[waveslider]

10 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

God doesn't make exceptions. The one thief on the cross had an awakening on that cross. He was never immersed in water.

Again, no answer to my questions. If you will notice, "Paradise," as referenced as the place the thief and Christ would be together that same day isn't Heaven. See what Peter says about where Christ went for the three days before His resurrection:

"18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
1 Peter 3:18-19

After the the three days Christ was resurrected and Mary found him at the tomb before Christ actually went to Heaven:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
John 20:17

Again please answer these three simple questions that you keep avoiding before moving on to a different subject:

20 hours ago, waveslider said:

1. CFR that the Bible says we should not pray to see if scripture is indeed of God?

2. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? Or to be more direct from the way you avoided answering it this time around, How are you convinced that the Bible is all the word of God and that there isn't any more words of God?

3. CFR that Baptism for the Dead was a common, pagan, Greek ritual?

 

[LittleNipper]

29 minutes ago, waveslider said:

Again, no answer to my questions. If you will notice, "Paradise," as referenced as the place the thief and Christ would be together that same day isn't Heaven. See what Peter says about where Christ went for the three days before His resurrection:

"18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
1 Peter 3:18-19

After the the three days Christ was resurrected and Mary found him at the tomb before Christ actually went to Heaven:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
John 20:17

Again please answer these three simple questions that you keep avoiding before moving on to a different subject:

 

Paradise or Abraham's Bosom was the retaining area of the Saints until Jesus arose. Paradise no longer exists.The captives have been freed and released from prison.

As for you CFR, please confirm which one:

CFR	Code of Federal Regulations
CFR	Council on Foreign Relations
CFR	Cost and Freight (shipping)
CFR	Case Fatality Rate
CFR	Center for Research (various locations)
CFR	Campaign Finance Reform
CFR	Coronary Flow Reserve
CFR	Compagnie Financière Richemont (French finance company)
CFR	Carbon Fiber Reinforced
CFR	Certified First Responder
CFR	Community First Responder
CFR	Crest Factor Reduction (algorithm)
CFR	Caile Ferate Romane (Romanian Railways)
CFR	Confédération Française des Retraités (French: French Confederation of Pensioners)
CFR	Crash Fire and Rescue (USMC)
CFR	Center for Family Resources
CFR	Configuration Register
CFR	Channel Frequency Response (communication technology)
CFR	Cooperative Fuel Research
CFR	Call for Release (FAA)
CFR	Constant Failure Rate
CFR	Confirmation to Receive
CFR	Carbon Film Resistor
CFR	Central Forest Reserve
CFR	Custom Flat Ride (Atari)
CFR	Chicken Fried Rice
CFR	Community and Family Resources
CFR	Consolidated Fiscal Report
CFR	Centre de Formation Régional (French: Regional Training Center; various locations)
CFR	Center for Feminist Research (various locations)
CFR	Caen, France - Carpiquet (Airport Code)
CFR	Commissioning from the Ranks (Canadian military)
CFR	Claims Fluctuation Reserve (insurance industry)
CFR	Comprehensive Facility Review
CFR	Commercial Fast Reactor
CFR	Catastrophic Failure Rate
CFR	Critical Functional Response
CFR	Cumulative Failure Rate
CFR	Collège Français de Reus (French: French College of Reus; Reus, Spain)
CFR	Contact Flight Rules
CFR	Carton Flow Rack (material handling)
CFR	Condensate Filter Demineralizer
CFR	Contractor Flight Release
CFR	Contractor Funds Report
CFR	Centre Fédéral de Ressources (French: Federal Resource Center)
CFR	Customer Field Representative
CFR	Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, Fr. Groeschel (religious order)
CFR	Course Frequency Receiver
CFR	Case Form Report
CFR	Carry Forward Form
CFR	Coldwater Fishery Resource
CFR	Commission Foncière Rurale (French)
CFR	Cartridge Fuse Rating
CFR	Can't Find the Road (undefined radio program format)
CFR	Chemical Functional Review
CFR	Computer Facial Recognition
CFR	Cylinder Firing Rate
CFR	Customer Failure Report
CFR	Cumulative Financial Requirements
CFR	Conception Fabrication Robotique (French: Manufacturing Robotics Design; Canada)
CFR	Conceptual Feasibility Report
CFR	Control Filter Rate
CFR	Category for Renaming (Wikimedia Foundation)
CFR	Commander Federal Republic
CFR	Cleaning Force Ratio
CFR	Closed File Review (insurance)
CFR	Centre for Retail (India)
CFR	Center for Resolution (various locations)
CfR	Center for Rusmiddelforskning (Norwegian: Center for Alcohol and Drug)
CFR	Central Florida Region (Sports Car Club of America)
CFR	Case Fill Rate (supply chain management)
CFR	Canadian Forces Registration
CFR	Candy Fund Raiser (disc golf)
CFR	Common Frame of Reference
CFR	Concrete Form Release
CFR	Condition Found Report (various organizations)
CFR	Compact Fusion Reactor
CFR	Cooling Fan Relay (various companies)
CFR	Coordinating Fuel and Equipment Research Committee (Coordinating Research Council, Inc.)
CFR	Corporate & Foundation Relations (various schools)
CFR	Corporate Family Rating (investment)
CFR	Corporate Finance Research
CFR	Cubic Foot per Revolution (measurement)
CFR	Country Framework Report (various organizations)
CFR	Customer Flight Recorder (Ford)

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by LittleNipper

[waveslider]

20 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Paradise or Abraham's Bosom was the retaining area of the Saints until Jesus arose. Paradise no longer exists.The captives have been freed and released from prison.

Still no answer to my questions:

46 minutes ago, waveslider said:

1. CFR that the Bible says we should not pray to see if scripture is indeed of God?

2. How do you know that the Bible is the word of God? Or to be more direct from the way you avoided answering it this time around, How are you convinced that the Bible is all the word of God and that there isn't any more words of God?

3. CFR that Baptism for the Dead was a common, pagan, Greek ritual?

Perhaps you missed reading the rules of this board. Check under, "Banned Behaviors," the ninth bullet down:

On 11/29/2015 at 8:54 AM, Ares said:

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You aren't making for a very good discussion when you just state things out of the blue, with nothing to back it up, and just keep adding more things that I will only ask for more CFR's:

CFR that paradise no longer exist?

And CFR that those in spirit prison awaiting the resurrection have already been freed, meaning the second resurrection already happened?

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by waveslider
mispellings

[cdowis]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

God doesn't make exceptions. The one thief on the cross had an awakening on that cross. He was never immersed in water.

1. How do you know he was not baptized?  Is it not possible that he was a disciple of John the Baptist.  He obviously had a knowledge of Christ.

2. We know that Paradise is not the abode of God the Father ===  Christ told Mary that He had not ascended to the Father.

 

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

CFR	Code of Federal Regulations
CFR	Council on Foreign Relations
CFR	Cost and Freight (shipping)
CFR	Case Fatality Rate
CFR	Center for Research (various locations)
CFR	Campaign Finance Reform
CFR	Coronary Flow Reserve
CFR	Compagnie Financière Richemont (French finance company)
CFR	Carbon Fiber Reinforced
CFR	Certified First Responder
CFR	Community First Responder
CFR	Crest Factor Reduction (algorithm)
CFR	Caile Ferate Romane (Romanian Railways)
CFR	Confédération Française des Retraités (French: French Confederation of Pensioners)
CFR	Crash Fire and Rescue (USMC)
CFR	Center for Family Resources
CFR	Configuration Register
CFR	Channel Frequency Response (communication technology)
CFR	Cooperative Fuel Research
CFR	Call for Release (FAA)
CFR	Constant Failure Rate
CFR	Confirmation to Receive
CFR	Carbon Film Resistor
CFR	Central Forest Reserve
CFR	Custom Flat Ride (Atari)
CFR	Chicken Fried Rice
CFR	Community and Family Resources
CFR	Consolidated Fiscal Report
CFR	Centre de Formation Régional (French: Regional Training Center; various locations)
CFR	Center for Feminist Research (various locations)
CFR	Caen, France - Carpiquet (Airport Code)
CFR	Commissioning from the Ranks (Canadian military)
CFR	Claims Fluctuation Reserve (insurance industry)
CFR	Comprehensive Facility Review
CFR	Commercial Fast Reactor
CFR	Catastrophic Failure Rate
CFR	Critical Functional Response
CFR	Cumulative Failure Rate
CFR	Collège Français de Reus (French: French College of Reus; Reus, Spain)
CFR	Contact Flight Rules
CFR	Carton Flow Rack (material handling)
CFR	Condensate Filter Demineralizer
CFR	Contractor Flight Release
CFR	Contractor Funds Report
CFR	Centre Fédéral de Ressources (French: Federal Resource Center)
CFR	Customer Field Representative
CFR	Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, Fr. Groeschel (religious order)
CFR	Course Frequency Receiver
CFR	Case Form Report
CFR	Carry Forward Form
CFR	Coldwater Fishery Resource
CFR	Commission Foncière Rurale (French)
CFR	Cartridge Fuse Rating
CFR	Can't Find the Road (undefined radio program format)
CFR	Chemical Functional Review
CFR	Computer Facial Recognition
CFR	Cylinder Firing Rate
CFR	Customer Failure Report
CFR	Cumulative Financial Requirements
CFR	Conception Fabrication Robotique (French: Manufacturing Robotics Design; Canada)
CFR	Conceptual Feasibility Report
CFR	Control Filter Rate
CFR	Category for Renaming (Wikimedia Foundation)
CFR	Commander Federal Republic
CFR	Cleaning Force Ratio
CFR	Closed File Review (insurance)
CFR	Centre for Retail (India)
CFR	Center for Resolution (various locations)
CfR	Center for Rusmiddelforskning (Norwegian: Center for Alcohol and Drug)
CFR	Central Florida Region (Sports Car Club of America)
CFR	Case Fill Rate (supply chain management)
CFR	Canadian Forces Registration
CFR	Candy Fund Raiser (disc golf)
CFR	Common Frame of Reference
CFR	Concrete Form Release
CFR	Condition Found Report (various organizations)
CFR	Compact Fusion Reactor
CFR	Cooling Fan Relay (various companies)
CFR	Coordinating Fuel and Equipment Research Committee (Coordinating Research Council, Inc.)
CFR	Corporate & Foundation Relations (various schools)
CFR	Corporate Family Rating (investment)
CFR	Corporate Finance Research
CFR	Cubic Foot per Revolution (measurement)
CFR	Country Framework Report (various organizations)
CFR	Customer Flight Recorder (Ford)

 

Sorry I didn't see that you added this to your post. CFR means Call For Reference.

[LittleNipper]

9 hours ago, waveslider said:

Again, no answer to my questions. If you will notice, "Paradise," as referenced as the place the thief and Christ would be together that same day isn't Heaven. See what Peter says about where Christ went for the three days before His resurrection:

"18  For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19  By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
1 Peter 3:18-19

After the the three days Christ was resurrected and Mary found him at the tomb before Christ actually went to Heaven:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
John 20:17

Again please answer these three simple questions that you keep avoiding before moving on to a different subject:

 

Paradise or Abraham's Bosom was the retaining area of the Saints until Jesus arose. Paradise no longer exists.The captives have been freed and released from prison.

It you are interested in a reference, you may read the following: http://www.devotions.com/2011/01/bible-indicates-paradise-was-once-part-of-hades.html

Edited December 8, 2016 by LittleNipper

[LittleNipper]

5 hours ago, waveslider said:

Sorry I didn't see that you added this to your post. CFR means Call For Reference.

Thank you! Sorry if I was a little over the top. I tend to hate abbreviations. Americans today tend not to write. They also tend not to converse face to face ---- but that's an entirely different matter. 

[LittleNipper]

First, I believe the Bible is the Word of God because of its scientific accuracy. (Job 26:7) (Isaiah 40:22). This suggests divine inspiration and not human knowledge.

Secondly, the Bible is affirmed through historical accuracy. (Daniel 5:29). In 1853, an inscription was found on a cornerstone of a temple built by Nabonidas, to the god Ur, which read: “May I, Nabonidas, king of Babylon, not sin against thee. And may reverence for thee dwell in the heart of Belshazzar, my first-born favorite son.” From other inscriptions, it was learned that Belshazzar and Nabonidas were co-regents. Nabonidas traveled while Belshazzar stayed home to run the kingdom. 

Third, from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible reads as one book. And there is incredible unity to the Bible. The Bible is one book, and yet it is made up of 66 books, was written by at least 40 different authors over a period of about 1600 years, in 13 different countries and on 3 different continents. It was written in at least 3 languages by people in all professions. The Bible forms one beautiful temple of truth that does not contradict itself theologically, morally, ethically, doctrinally, scientifically, historically, or in any other way.

Fourth, the Bible is the only book in the world that has accurate prophecy? There are over 300 precise prophecies that deal with the Lord Jesus Christ in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the New Testament.

Finally, the Bible is the Book of the Ages. First Peter 1:25 says: “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” No book has ever had as much opposition as the Bible. Men have laughed at it, scorned it, burned it, ridiculed it, and made laws against it. But the Word of God has survived. It is as relevant today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.

[cdowis]

19 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Finally, the Bible is the Book of the Ages. First Peter 1:25 says: “But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you.” No book has ever had as much opposition as the Bible. Men have laughed at it, scorned it, burned it, ridiculed it, and made laws against it. But the Word of God has survived. It is as relevant today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow.

We accept ALL the Word of God, including the Bible and modern revelation.

[LittleNipper]

7 minutes ago, cdowis said:

We accept ALL the Word of God, including the Bible and modern revelation.

Only the Bible fits the 5 points above. Now do you understand the Bible in view of the Book of Mormon or do you view the BoM from view of the Bible. I tend to note the modern "revelation" often is applied to overshadow the Bible. Supposed Uniformitarianism (NO FLOOD) and Evolution of life/species (WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF NATURE) are a prime examples.  

[cdowis]

12 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Only the Bible fits the 5 points above.

Those are your personal requirements, and there are many who would disagree with your conclusions.  May I suggest that you put your 5 points on an atheist forum and see the results.  SURELY your five points should convert many to believe in the Bible, nicht wahr?

Now do you understand the Bible in view of the Book of Mormon or do you view the BoM from view of the Bible. I tend to note the modern "revelation" often is applied to overshadow the Bible. Supposed Uniformitarianism (NO FLOOD) and Evolution of life/species (WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF NATURE) are a prime examples.  

Huh?  I view the scriptures as a whole, and "view" it according to my need.  I have found the Bible more than sufficient to speak about the ultimate condition of man -- e.g. John 17: 19-23,  Rev 3:21, etc.  the nature of the Godhead, the life of Christ

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by cdowis

[stemelbow]

The last time I remember reading it straight through was 2011.  At that time I had decided I've read it so many times before and was feeling strongly that I really understood it and yet still wondered if I really did.  So I decided to try and read it again somehow pretending it was for the first time.  It was kind of entertaining in a sense.  I was like, "are we serious?  These stories are meaningful to us?"  In a few spots.  In the end, I had concluded it was a very complicated work.  Some influence by the translator, had to have happened.  Some influence by inspiration as it continues to sincerely touch me at times.  But the lasting impression that remains with me today is how the in the world did Joseph get this?  How does this inspiration work?  It simply can't be some direct translation of words put down by ancient people.  But I can't leave it as the opposite either--probably as much because it's always been scripture in my eyes and I don't want to let that go as much as anything.  There are tons of books and writings that have made me feel inspired.  it is one of many, I realize.  I certainly don't want to let go of it as special to me just because it is unique compared to others. 

[stemelbow]

Reviewing this thread, I realize it has taken a completely different course from the OP.  I suppose my last post doesn't fit anymore.  So, ignore if you want to, or if you want maybe we can discuss what this thread was intended to discuss?

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

The last time I remember reading it straight through was 2011.  At that time I had decided I've read it so many times before and was feeling strongly that I really understood it and yet still wondered if I really did.  So I decided to try and read it again somehow pretending it was for the first time.  It was kind of entertaining in a sense.  I was like, "are we serious?  These stories are meaningful to us?"  In a few spots.  In the end, I had concluded it was a very complicated work.  Some influence by the translator, had to have happened.  Some influence by inspiration as it continues to sincerely touch me at times.  But the lasting impression that remains with me today is how the in the world did Joseph get this?  How does this inspiration work?  It simply can't be some direct translation of words put down by ancient people.  But I can't leave it as the opposite either--probably as much because it's always been scripture in my eyes and I don't want to let that go as much as anything.  There are tons of books and writings that have made me feel inspired.  it is one of many, I realize.  I certainly don't want to let go of it as special to me just because it is unique compared to others. 

No you are keeping it on track, good for you!

[waveslider]

3 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Third, from Genesis to Revelation, the Bible reads as one book. And there is incredible unity to the Bible. The Bible is one book, and yet it is made up of 66 books, was written by at least 40 different authors over a period of about 1600 years, in 13 different countries and on 3 different continents. It was written in at least 3 languages by people in all professions. The Bible forms one beautiful temple of truth that does not contradict itself theologically, morally, ethically, doctrinally, scientifically, historically, or in any other way.

The Bible was compiled by questionable processes: http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

Here is just one of many of the questionable things listed here:

"....we do know that there were many books of supposed prophets floating around up until 312 CE when the Council of Nicea decided which books were scripture and which ones were burned. Thanks to the notorious habit of early Christian leaders of destroying books/scrolls, we may never know what doctrine existed before the Council of Nicea."

Not to mention the many verses within the Bible as we know it today, that directly contradict each other. Just one example:

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
Exodus 6:3

If the name Jehovah wasn't known then how did Abraham know to call this place by this name?:

"And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen."
Genesis 22:14

That said, I do believe the Bible, as far as it is translated correctly, to be the word of God.

The reason I originally asked how you know the Bible is the word of God, is because you seemed to mock those who know the BoM to be true by having a, "Fuzzy Feeling," as you dubbed it, and that there is no way the BoM could be God's word.

I can accept the reasons you believe the Bible to be true, but you can't know for sure just based of your criteria, just a strong belief, which is different than knowledge.

Please tell me, how do you KNOW that the BoM can't exist as God's word, based of your belief that the Bible is the only source of God's words?

[cdowis]

11 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Only the Bible fits the 5 points above. Now do you understand the Bible in view of the Book of Mormon or do you view the BoM from view of the Bible. I tend to note the modern "revelation" often is applied to overshadow the Bible. Supposed Uniformitarianism (NO FLOOD) and Evolution of life/species (WE ARE THE PRODUCT OF NATURE) are a prime examples.  

Why the Bible is important to me

 

[LittleNipper]

23 hours ago, cdowis said:

Those are your personal requirements, and there are many who would disagree with your conclusions.  May I suggest that you put your 5 points on an atheist forum and see the results.  SURELY your five points should convert many to believe in the Bible, nicht wahr?

Nicht notwendig! God does the converting. The job of the Christian is to sow seeds. Why I can believe the Bible: 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by LittleNipper

[waveslider]

On 12/8/2016 at 4:18 PM, LittleNipper said:

Nicht notwendig! God does the converting. The job of the Christian is to sow seeds. Why I can believe the Bible: 

 

I watched your video and I think the most important things they said were the parts; starting at the 6:58 and the part starting at about the 54:42 mark. Judging by what these guys said in those few sentences I think they would agree that we should ask God to know what scripture is truth and what isn't, and that we shouldn't be trying to tear down other Christians' beliefs. So why would anyone be against reading and praying about the Book of Mormon to see if it is also the word of God, which testifies of Jesus as being alive and our Savior, from a completely different people and place?

[LittleNipper]

9 hours ago, waveslider said:

I watched your video and I think the most important things they said were the parts; starting at the 6:58 and the part starting at about the 54:42 mark. Judging by what these guys said in those few sentences I think they would agree that we should ask God to know what scripture is truth and what isn't, and that we shouldn't be trying to tear down other Christians' beliefs. So why would anyone be against reading and praying about the Book of Mormon to see if it is also the word of God, which testifies of Jesus as being alive and our Savior, from a completely different people and place?

There is nothing wrong with praying about various works. The problem revealed within the Book of Mormon itself is that the "Christian Church" which is reputed to have existed in the new world by the the Book of Mormon was a total failure and overcome. The Bible clearly states that nothing would totally destroy the Church. The New World Christians of the Book of Mormon never were missionaries to the Old World. The Old world Christians came to the New World and performing among other things missionary work ---- finding nothing but pagan heathens. Think about it!  Christ's Church if indeed established in the New World was an utter and complete failure. It might as well have never existed ---- if indeed it ever really did. So of what real value was its witness (The book of Mormon) . The Old World "Christians" didn't have the Book of Mormon and matured. The new world "Christians" supposedly had it and disappeared without a trace............. Tell me if I am wrong. Why was the book of Mormon buried ???

Edited December 11, 2016 by LittleNipper

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

There is nothing wrong with praying about various works. The problem revealed within the Book of Mormon itself is that the "Christian Church" which is reputed to have existed in the new world by the the Book of Mormon was a total failure and overcome. The Bible clearly states that nothing would totally destroy the Church. 

It does not say what you think it says.   Christ fulfilled His promise by restoring the church in the latter day, in our day.  Paul tells us that His church would have prophets and apostles (Eph 4:11-14) and there would be "One Lord, one faith, and one baptism".
The historical church replaced them with theologians and philosophers who mingle the scriptures with the philosophies of man.  

This restored church would continue on the earth until the Coming of Christ in His glory, to prepare the world for that day by teaching the restored Gospel to every continent, nation, tongue and people.

Christ gave power and authority to Peter, Matt 16  [19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.   

And that priesthood authority was restored through heavenly messengers -- Peter, James, John and others.  It  is found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  I know with a certainty that God lives and guides His church today.

Edited December 11, 2016 by cdowis

[waveslider]

4 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

There is nothing wrong with praying about various works. The problem revealed within the Book of Mormon itself is that the "Christian Church" which is reputed to have existed in the new world by the the Book of Mormon was a total failure and overcome. The Bible clearly states that nothing would totally destroy the Church. The New World Christians of the Book of Mormon never were missionaries to the Old World. The Old world Christians came to the New World and performing among other things missionary work ---- finding nothing but pagan heathens. Think about it!  Christ's Church if indeed established in the New World was an utter and complete failure. It might as well have never existed ---- if indeed it ever really did. So of what real value was its witness (The book of Mormon) . The Old World "Christians" didn't have the Book of Mormon and matured. The new world "Christians" supposedly had it and disappeared without a trace............. Tell me if I am wrong. Why was the book of Mormon buried ???

What you don't understand is that the Church doesn't always remain on Earth. People turn from the Lord and the truth is then taken. It is a cyclical pattern. With your line of thinking, what value is the words of God that preceded Noah's time. Talk about a complete failure.... It says the whole world was wicked and needed to be destroyed. A falling away was the reason why Christ had to re-establish His church because the Jews had turned from it. Perhaps the Jews' previous history might as well never have existed. It wasn't long after Christ ascended into Heaven that all the apostles and those who had the proper authority were all killed off and the gospel again has not remained on Earth. Should we just throw out everything Christ taught as he set up his church during the new testament writings, since it too was a failure in the sense that His church didn't just continue without corruption of it's pureness, or are you of the mindset that the Catholics did preserve the church complete with twelve apostles and a prophet? In that case why the need to reform anything? The BoM, although it speaks of failed civilizations that once had Christ's teachings and the gospel, doesn't mean that it should just be thrown out. Isn't there something to learn there? Or do you think that we are better now days and don't need to worry that the gospel can be corrupted from the teachings of men? Check out what the Bible says about these apostasies:

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant."
Isaiah 24:5

"For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee."
Isaiah 60:2

"11  ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
12  And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it."
Amos 8:11-12

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
Matthew 24:5

"23  Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24  For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
Matthew 24:23-24

"66  ¶ From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67  Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?"
John 6:66-67

"6  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ."
Galatians 1:6-7

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
2 Thessalonians 2:3

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
1 Timothy 4:1

"Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
2 Timothy 3:5

"3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
2 Timothy 4:3-4

"3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
2 Timothy 4:3-4

"16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17  Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18  But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
2 Peter 3:16-18

"1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
1 John 4:1-3

"For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Jude 1:4

It isn't all grim because we are told that a restoration, refreshing, shall come again:

"19  ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22  For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23  And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24  Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days."
Acts 3:19-24

"That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:"
Ephesians 1:10

I believe in the Bible for the same reason I believe in the Book of Mormon. I have had both confirmed to me that they indeed carry the words of God within them, directly from God, via the Holy Ghost, and I still get those things borne witness to me as I continue to study both and learn new things that add to that testimony. So what could possibly be wrong with asking God if it is indeed another testament of Christ even though the people ended up falling away centuries later? It either is the word of God or it isn't. When I finally got an answer directly from God that the Book of Mormon truly contained the word of God, I actually didn't believe it could be possible based on what I had read and studied about it, up to that point. It really blew me away at the time! It has taken decades of study to really start to see the wisdom in how it is indeed the word of God, along with the Bible, through secular means of study as well.

Edited December 11, 2016 by waveslider
spelling error