The Multiplicity Effect

[strappinglad]

For some reason my mood recently has been one of reflection on the state of the world and why we humans are the way we are. We are told that the natural man is an enemy to God. I wonder why that is. I wonder what %age of people are righteous as a base core , slow to anger, honest in their dealings, willing to serve etc. , and what %age are out for themselves, willing to use opportunities to undermine their neighbors, quick to be offended, desiring revenge etc.

 The notion that we are just part of a plan that has been carried out countless times over the eternities put a thought in my mind that maybe there is a  ' multiplicity effect ' acting here. Years ago there was a movie call Multiplicity in which Michael Keaton's character undergoes several clonings  and with each becomes more and more defective. I recall a teaching that THIS earth is particularly wicked in that it killed its own savior. That implies there are other earths where the majority are very righteous and live closer to the ideal. Are we the 'australia' earth where many of the ' outlaws ' were placed to keep them out of polite society ? If as many as 1/3 of the spirit children were not interested in God's plan from the beginning, and a big chunk of the others have concluded the plan is not for them , are we part of the ' slow learners ' class ?

  I think I should take a chill pill and lie down until these thoughts go away.

[Tacenda]

41 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

For some reason my mood recently has been one of reflection on the state of the world and why we humans are the way we are. We are told that the natural man is an enemy to God. I wonder why that is. I wonder what %age of people are righteous as a base core , slow to anger, honest in their dealings, willing to serve etc. , and what %age are out for themselves, willing to use opportunities to undermine their neighbors, quick to be offended, desiring revenge etc.

 The notion that we are just part of a plan that has been carried out countless times over the eternities put a thought in my mind that maybe there is a  ' multiplicity effect ' acting here. Years ago there was a movie call Multiplicity in which Michael Keaton's character undergoes several clonings  and with each becomes more and more defective. I recall a teaching that THIS earth is particularly wicked in that it killed its own savior. That implies there are other earths where the majority are very righteous and live closer to the ideal. Are we the 'australia' earth where many of the ' outlaws ' were placed to keep them out of polite society ? If as many as 1/3 of the spirit children were not interested in God's plan from the beginning, and a big chunk of the others have concluded the plan is not for them , are we part of the ' slow learners ' class ?

  I think I should take a chill pill and lie down until these thoughts go away.

I believe there's a higher percentage that are good, no doubt about it.

[thesometimesaint]

None of us, in this life, can be totally altruistic. We wouldn't live very long if we were. So we must take good care of ourselves plus others along the way.

[rongo]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I recall a teaching that THIS earth is particularly wicked in that it killed its own savior. That implies there are other earths where the majority are very righteous and live closer to the ideal.

Brigham Young (and others) taught that each earth has its own savior and tempter. This makes much more sense to me than the belief that Jesus is the savior of all worlds. Those who teach/believe this believe that we, as the most wicked earth, had to have him himself come to us. 

I don't believe that, personally. 

[CV75]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

For some reason my mood recently has been one of reflection on the state of the world and why we humans are the way we are. We are told that the natural man is an enemy to God. I wonder why that is. I wonder what %age of people are righteous as a base core , slow to anger, honest in their dealings, willing to serve etc. , and what %age are out for themselves, willing to use opportunities to undermine their neighbors, quick to be offended, desiring revenge etc.

 The notion that we are just part of a plan that has been carried out countless times over the eternities put a thought in my mind that maybe there is a  ' multiplicity effect ' acting here. Years ago there was a movie call Multiplicity in which Michael Keaton's character undergoes several clonings  and with each becomes more and more defective. I recall a teaching that THIS earth is particularly wicked in that it killed its own savior. That implies there are other earths where the majority are very righteous and live closer to the ideal. Are we the 'australia' earth where many of the ' outlaws ' were placed to keep them out of polite society ? If as many as 1/3 of the spirit children were not interested in God's plan from the beginning, and a big chunk of the others have concluded the plan is not for them , are we part of the ' slow learners ' class ?

  I think I should take a chill pill and lie down until these thoughts go away.

I think we are each inescapably a bit of both and hopefully through Christ’s grace progress over time to become like Him.

Our spirits were good enough to enter the second estate, but not perfect. Even the most innocent need the redemption of Christ in order to resurrect because their spirits, though pure, were insufficiently intelligent than the Only One who could overcome sin and death in all their forms.

Because the plan of happiness plays out over and over endlessly, I think the kinds of souls inhabiting each of the fallen worlds are essentially the same; each world is a microcosm of the whole of creation.

The phrase from Moses, “among all the workmanship of mine hands there has not been so great wickedness as among thy [Enoch’s] brethren,” may still refer only to the wickedness upon this earth: “the workmanship of my hands” on this communication always refers to “these they [Enoch’s] brethren.” In the Book of Mormon, the “workmanship” also refers to this earth (Jacob 4:9). See also D&C 29:25. Moses 1:4 (note verses 8 and 35 also) emphasizes, “I will show thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end, and also my words, for they never cease… But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you.”

2 Nephi 10:3 says that Christ “should come among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.” This does not contradict the statements about the wickedness of Enoch’s brethren, for this took place many generations later.

So I’m not sure where the generalization that this earth and in inhabitants, on the whole, are the most wicked of all creations that we have no account of, came from.

The infinite and eternal sacrifice for all creation may well refer to the infinite and eternal sacrifice for this world and its inhabitants of which we have an account. Thus the record (account) on earth matches the record in heaven, which as you pointed out, is a story that repeats itself over and over.

Gotta love them chill pills!

[Boanerges]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Brigham Young (and others) taught that each earth has its own savior and tempter. This makes much more sense to me than the belief that Jesus is the savior of all worlds. Those who teach/believe this believe that we, as the most wicked earth, had to have him himself come to us. 

I don't believe that, personally. 

Me, either. And I don't see why some need to speculate about other worlds.

[sunstoned]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

Brigham Young (and others) taught that each earth has its own savior and tempter. This makes much more sense to me than the belief that Jesus is the savior of all worlds. Those who teach/believe this believe that we, as the most wicked earth, had to have him himself come to us. 

I don't believe that, personally. 

I don't believe it either.  BY preached a lot of things that as it turns out were just his opinion. 

[strappinglad]

There is that pesky word ' all ' which is found in both scriptures.  " In all the workmanship... "    " but not all ... " , Don't you just love ' wresting ' the scriptures ?

[Teancum]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

Brigham Young (and others) taught that each earth has its own savior and tempter. This makes much more sense to me than the belief that Jesus is the savior of all worlds. Those who teach/believe this believe that we, as the most wicked earth, had to have him himself come to us. 

I don't believe that, personally. 

This seems to dispute other teachings that Jesus is the Savior of at least this Galaxy and that this earth was the only one wicked enough to crucify him.

 

 

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

I don't believe it either.  BY preached a lot of things that as it turns out were just his opinion. 

Seems like these days most any thing he preached that does not agree with the current watered down correlated "gospel" was BY's opinion.  What a thing.

[rongo]

4 hours ago, Teancum said:

This seems to dispute other teachings that Jesus is the Savior of at least this Galaxy and that this earth was the only one wicked enough to crucify him.

Where have either of these actually been taught? Jesus as savior of all worlds can be traced to Joseph Fielding Smith/Bruce R. McConkie, but the galaxy? 

And I've never seen general authorities discuss "this earth is the only one wicked enough to crucify him" ---- I've only heard that from rank-and-file Church members. I'm with Brigham Young on this. I believe that each world has its own savior and tempter.

[Robert F. Smith]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I believe there's a higher percentage that are good, no doubt about it.

Anne Frank, the young Jewish girl sent by the Nazis to die in Bergen-Belsen once said:

Quote

Human greatness does not lie in wealth or power, but in character and goodness.  People are just people, and all people have faults and shortcomings, but all of us are born with a basic goodness.

 

[hagoth7]

18 hours ago, strappinglad said:

...I think I should...lie down until these thoughts go away.

For some: take a few minutes to consider Paul's visit to a 7th heaven, Jacob's ladder (repeated elsewhere in scripture), the premise of being pilgrims in this world (considering Pilgrim's Progress wouldn't hurt), Christ's kingdom not being of this world, and the idea of worlds without number being created.

Edited November 20, 2016 by hagoth7

[rodheadlee]

 

[CV75]

21 hours ago, strappinglad said:

There is that pesky word ' all ' which is found in both scriptures.  " In all the workmanship... "    " but not all ... " , Don't you just love ' wresting ' the scriptures ?

While Enoch brings up “all” God’s creations in his conversation, like Moses, he is shown only this world (Moses 7:4), and whenever the Lord speaks of His “creations,” He refers only to this earth. He redirects the attention on this point by saying, “Behold these thy brethren; they are the workmanship of mine own hands…” because He gives “only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof,” knowing that “no man can behold all my works.”

So when He says, “Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made,” and “all the workmanship of mine hands,” He is referring to this earth and her inhabitants. So I think the statement that “there has not been so great wickedness as among thy brethren” has to do with that which is found upon this earth, or in this world.