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"To Young Men Only" removed.


Rivers

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The infamous talk is finally gone. At least from official church sources.

http://fox13now.com/2016/11/15/lds-church-takes-little-factory-pamphlet-out-of-distribution/

Edit: It's specifically the pamphlet that is out of distribution according to the article. But it is missing in the Gosel Library App. And when I looked it up on LDS.org I found  the video but without the text.

This is good right?

Edited by Rivers
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20 minutes ago, Rivers said:

The infamous talk is finally gone. At least from official church sources.

http://fox13now.com/2016/11/15/lds-church-takes-little-factory-pamphlet-out-of-distribution/

Edit: It's specifically the pamphlet that is out of distribution according to the article. But it is missing in the Gosel Library App. And when I looked it up on LDS.org I found  the video but without the text.

This is good right?

It is.  I saw this last week and thought..finally!!

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I understand the original conference talk will remain in the conference archives on lds.org

But yes, I consider this to be a good thing.

Does the church continue to actively denounce masturbation among the youth and young adults in the church? 

 had heard that although official doctrine forbidding the practice hasn't changed at all, the topic isn't as discussed as much as it once was.  Not sure that's accurate though, hence my question.

D

Edited by Daniel2
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6 minutes ago, Rivers said:

When I was a young man, I only remember the subject being brought  up in worthiness interviews with the bishop. I had never heard this talk until very recently.

Do you mind me asking what years were you in the Young Men's programs of the church?

I was in the YM from 1985-1991.  I was very well aware of the talk "To Young Men" (from what I recall, we had at least one lesson a year about sexual purity, which included brief discussions---more of an acknowledgement, really--that we were only to use "the sacred powers of procreation" with our wives after marriage.  I recall my first time, as a deacon, sitting in on the lesson.  Our advisor asked us a question about what we thought about that, and I can recall looking at my fellow deacons as we each blinked, rather bewildered.  I whispered to some of my classmates if they knew what that was... and I was the only one who raised my hand and said, "Ummm.... Brother _____, what is 'procreation'?"  Our advisor seenmed somewhat embarrassed that he had to explain in slightly more explicit language what that was... :) But I do recall that he passed out that pamphlet to us to take home and read, as part of the lesson.  Unfortunately, that pamphlet came a couple years too late in my development...)  I do recall leaders asking general questions in my PPIs about it. I was too embarrassed to talk to them while I was young, and ultimately avoided addressing it until I saw my first non-family-ward bishop at BYU.  I was too worried that my family's bishop would talk to my parents about it.)

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On 11/19/2016 at 4:27 PM, sunstoned said:

I was a teenager in California in  the 1970's and this topic was never brought up in lessons or in interviews as far as I can remember.  Was this a Utah only thing?

Nope, we went over the pamphlet up in Washington State in the early 90s. 

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On 11/18/2016 at 5:30 PM, Daniel2 said:

I understand the original conference talk will remain in the conference archives on lds.org

But yes, I consider this to be a good thing.

Does the church continue to actively denounce masturbation among the youth and young adults in the church? 

 had heard that although official doctrine forbidding the practice hasn't changed at all, the topic isn't as discussed as much as it once was.  Not sure that's accurate though, hence my question.

D

I think it depends on your leaders. I have had two sons serve missions. The first (now returned) was not asked about masturbation in any of his interviews with the bishop, SP, or his MP. He "put in his papers" here in the US northeast.

Son #2 (currently serving) initiated the process in his BYU ward. He was asked by his BYU bishop and he foolishly answered that he did masturbate. He was put on hold for 3 months, during which time the semester ended and he returned home. The bishop here (new since his brother and coincidentally the father of 6 boys) could see on the computer that there was a hold and had to contact the former bishop before he could remove the hold. My son told him what the hold was for. Our bishop, more or less out of respect for the former bishop and partly because this was his first missionary application, honored the three months but did not ask further about masturbation. We also got a new SP in the meantime and he also didn't ask. Although my son has been out for over a year, he has met with his president only twice and the subject has not come up.

I was a convert but did serve a mission in the early 80s. At that time masturbation was a question in the missionary interview - or at least I assume it was because my bishop, SP, and MP all asked about. My MP asked about it every interview, which were every other month. When I was a zone leader he told me he could tell which missionaries masturbate and which didn't. I never figured out if he was trying to tell me he knew I was lying or he thought he really could tell and frankly I didn't care because I had very little respect for him and he was only there because of his relationship to a member of the first presidency at the time (IMO).

I'm glad the pamphlet is gone, I'm glad Miracle of Forgiveness is out of print also. They have both done enough damage.

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What is the "official" policy with leaders asking about masturbation in interviews with youth/ysa's? Is this something that doesn't happen once someone is married? Does it depend on your gender? I don't think any adult leader should be asking these types of questions to anyone? What good does it actually do but bring guilt and shame over something quite normal for adolescents to experience. Making youth feel guilty and dirty over something that is normal does not breed healthy, positive feelings about the church. I know of many instances, issues over masturbation have led to feelings of worthlessness and to inactivity. I don't believe masturbating means a person breaks the law of chastity. Am I mistaken?

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On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 6:58 PM, bsjkki said:

I don't believe masturbating means a person breaks the law of chastity. Am I mistaken?

Back in the 80's and 90's, when I was growing up, my local leadership certainly believed and acted as if masturbation definitely was a violation of the law of chastity.

I'd love to know if there is an official position on this in the LDS church, today.  Does anyone know or have a source?  Perhaps from the Handbook....?

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On 11/30/2016 at 0:31 PM, Daniel2 said:

Back in the 80's and 90's, when I was growing up, my local leadership certainly believed and acted as if masturbation definitely was a violation of the law of chastity.

I'd love to know if there is an official position on this in the LDS church, today.  Does anyone know or have a source?  Perhaps from the Handbook....?

I'd rather the church teach alternatives for how teenage boys can deal with their pent up hormones because all boys have testosterone.

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16 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I'd rather the church teach alternatives for how teenage boys can deal with their pent up hormones because all boys have testosterone.

I'd like to know if Pres. Packer's statement about how masturbating causes one to need to do it more often the more it's done, is true. Or if shutting down the factory until marriage tends to dry a man up, if so that would be a good thing then. 

There is one thing that bothers me though. It's that LDS wives have to "take care" of their husband's "needs" way more often than non LDS wives whose husbands masturbate. When LDS men don't masturbate is it put upon their wives to take care of it, especially since nowadays, it's up to the couple what goes on in the bedroom? Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to do that, but at the same time, I can't like the thought that my husband does it either, since I've been conditioned to believe it's wrong. 

Sorry if I'm too explicit in my descriptions, and hopefully I don't offend. And I'm terrible with my descriptions too.

Edited by Tacenda
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38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like to know if Pres. Packer's statement about how masturbating causes one to need to do it more often the more it's done, is true. Or if shutting down the factory until marriage tends to dry a man up, if so that would be a good thing then. 

There is one thing that bothers me though. It's that LDS wives have to "take care" of their husband's "needs" way more often than non LDS wives whose husbands masturbate. When LDS men don't masturbate is it put upon their wives to take care of it, especially since nowadays, it's up to the couple what goes on in the bedroom? Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to do that, but at the same time, I can't like the thought that might husband does it either, since I've been conditioned to believe it's wrong. 

Sorry if I'm too explicit in my descriptions, and hopefully I don't offend. And I'm terrible with my descriptions too.

Your honesty rocks!!!  Good questions!

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Your honesty rocks!!!  Good questions!

Thanks Jeanne! I posted this on a quick lunch break, therefore it didn't give me much time to change my mind and not go through with it and delete it. Now I'm reading it again, and worry, haha. But this has seriously crossed my mind tons. 

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

I think the only one who could give an informed answer is Bluedreams and iirc, she said she is super swamped right now, so I think you will just have to wonder about that for now.

Hi Calm, I'm not worried about it that much, it just crossed my mind is all. Hope all is well with you!! :)

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On 12/2/2016 at 0:51 PM, Tacenda said:

I'd like to know if Pres. Packer's statement about how masturbating causes one to need to do it more often the more it's done, is true. Or if shutting down the factory until marriage tends to dry a man up, if so that would be a good thing then. 

There is one thing that bothers me though. It's that LDS wives have to "take care" of their husband's "needs" way more often than non LDS wives whose husbands masturbate. When LDS men don't masturbate is it put upon their wives to take care of it, especially since nowadays, it's up to the couple what goes on in the bedroom? Honestly, I'd prefer not to have to do that, but at the same time, I can't like the thought that my husband does it either, since I've been conditioned to believe it's wrong. 

Sorry if I'm too explicit in my descriptions, and hopefully I don't offend. And I'm terrible with my descriptions too.

Calm was right, I was pretty swamped. But it should slow a little-ish today. So I thought I'd write this before I do yoga and start my day. 

All of these statements are too generalized. Including Packer's. With just masturbation, that often reduces  period for men and women and both have differing peaks when they're masturbating the most. And in spite of our belief that men are masturbating fiends as teens....many don't. I've ran into a few who have never masturbated ever (men). Partners do not reduce their amount of masturbation from having a sexual relationship. Lack of sexual relationships REDUCES masturbation. The relationships that I've seen, masturbation plays a part in differing ways, whether LDS or not. If it's used in the way that you mentioned, it's not necessarily a good thing. For one it reduces sex to an itch as opposed to relational connection and it can maintain sexual problems in the relationship as self-pleasuring becomes a triangulated crutch. On top of that, if severe problems persist in their sexual/personal relationship, masturbation can lose its savor. It becomes a reminder of what they don't have, in essence. 

I also have a problem because it maintains sex disparities between men and women. Women's sexuality, in general, is repressed or not understood. I have yet to see a movie, for example that really fully captures women's sexuality. It's usually more of a reflection of male sexual response, desires, and expectations surrounding sex. Your questions assumes that it is the man who has the higher desire or is the most distraught about their sexual relationship. Though men can be, many many many women are as well. I've had men swear to their partners that they would be happy without intercourse till their blue in the face and their wives don't believe it because of both social expectations about sex and her sense that he can be sexually frustrated at times. 

 

As for Packer's statement.  There's usually periods of time with increased masturbation that waxes and wanes. (unorthodox thoughts about to be expresse) Masturbation in and of itself isn't all that bad and can have some positive benefits...though not the ones you hypothesize. It can help better understand one's own arousal patterns and help facilitate sharing such patterns in one's sexual relationship. The bigger problem IMO is when it's coupled with porn, particularly in the teen years. It hijacks what may have been natural exploration that would have dissipated naturally. It can also suspend emotional and relational development, particularly if it becomes really frequent at young ages. The other problem is when going solo in any form starts to replace learning to maintain a relationship or takes over other activities. 

 

 Ok, Yoga time. 

With luv,

BD

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1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

Calm was right, I was pretty swamped. But it should slow a little-ish today. So I thought I'd write this before I do yoga and start my day. 

All of these statements are too generalized. Including Packer's. With just masturbation, that often reduces  period for men and women and both have differing peaks when they're masturbating the most. And in spite of our belief that men are masturbating fiends as teens....many don't. I've ran into a few who have never masturbated ever (men). Partners do not reduce their amount of masturbation from having a sexual relationship. Lack of sexual relationships REDUCES masturbation. The relationships that I've seen, masturbation plays a part in differing ways, whether LDS or not. If it's used in the way that you mentioned, it's not necessarily a good thing. For one it reduces sex to an itch as opposed to relational connection and it can maintain sexual problems in the relationship as self-pleasuring becomes a triangulated crutch. On top of that, if severe problems persist in their sexual/personal relationship, masturbation can lose its savor. It becomes a reminder of what they don't have, in essence. 

I also have a problem because it maintains sex disparities between men and women. Women's sexuality, in general, is repressed or not understood. I have yet to see a movie, for example that really fully captures women's sexuality. It's usually more of a reflection of male sexual response, desires, and expectations surrounding sex. Your questions assumes that it is the man who has the higher desire or is the most distraught about their sexual relationship. Though men can be, many many many women are as well. I've had men swear to their partners that they would be happy without intercourse till their blue in the face and their wives don't believe it because of both social expectations about sex and her sense that he can be sexually frustrated at times. 

 

As for Packer's statement.  There's usually periods of time with increased masturbation that waxes and wanes. (unorthodox thoughts about to be expresse) Masturbation in and of itself isn't all that bad and can have some positive benefits...though not the ones you hypothesize. It can help better understand one's own arousal patterns and help facilitate sharing such patterns in one's sexual relationship. The bigger problem IMO is when it's coupled with porn, particularly in the teen years. It hijacks what may have been natural exploration that would have dissipated naturally. It can also suspend emotional and relational development, particularly if it becomes really frequent at young ages. The other problem is when going solo in any form starts to replace learning to maintain a relationship or takes over other activities. 

 

 Ok, Yoga time. 

With luv,

BD

Lucky to get some of your time BD! Thanks to Calm for her advice to hear your take on it! 

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1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

I have yet to see a movie, for example that really fully captures women's sexuality. It's usually more of a reflection of male sexual response, desires, and expectations surrounding sex.

While it's not a movie, have you seen the Showtime series "Masters of Sex"?  While it's radically fictionalized, I think it's done an admirable job of attempting to explore human sexuality from a scientific standpoint from a variety of angles, including attempting to honestly portray female sexuality.  The show itself "assembled a majority female-writing staff" and is written and produced mainly by a woman. From Wiki:

Masters of Sex is an American period drama television series that premiered on September 29, 2013, on Showtime.[1] It was developed by Michelle Ashford and loosely[2] based on Thomas Maier's biography Masters of Sex. Set in the 1950s through the early 1970s, the series tells the story of Masters and Johnson (Dr. William Masters and Virginia Johnson) who are portrayed by Michael Sheen and Lizzy Caplan. The series has received critical acclaim. It was nominated for a Golden Globe Award for Best Drama Series in 2013. The series was cancelled by Showtime on November 30, 2016, after four seasons.[3]

Set in the 1950s through the early 1970s, the series explores the research and the relationship between Dr. William Masters (Michael Sheen) and Virginia Johnson (Lizzy Caplan), two pioneering researchers of human sexuality at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri.[4]

As noted by the Los Angeles Times television critic, the series "hangs on bones of fact"; "it's more useful for the viewer to think of it as all made up. Because, mostly, it is, and because to the extent it tells the story of two real people, it also adorns the telling with dramatic practicalities, invented characters and narrative detours. Indeed, it's down these side streets, casting a brief light on a passing character (patients, prostitutes, a provost's wife), that the show finds many of its best moments."[2]

Writer/producer Michelle Ashford serves as showrunner for Masters of Sex. She assembled a majority-female writing staff, although she says this was unintentional.[15]

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34 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

While it's not a movie, have you seen the Showtime series "Masters of Sex"?  While it's radically fictionalized, I think it's done an admirable job of attempting to explore human sexuality from a scientific standpoint from a variety of angles, including attempting to honestly portray female sexuality.  The show itself "assembled a majority female-writing staff" and is written and produced mainly by a woman. From Wiki:

 

 

No, I've heard of it. But like many a millennial I don't own a TV with sattelite or cable. My laptop is my TV. Maybe I'll check it out when I visit some family in TX. 

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On 11/30/2016 at 0:31 PM, Daniel2 said:

Back in the 80's and 90's, when I was growing up, my local leadership certainly believed and acted as if masturbation definitely was a violation of the law of chastity.

I'd love to know if there is an official position on this in the LDS church, today.  Does anyone know or have a source?  Perhaps from the Handbook....?

I don't recall anything in Handbook 1 about masturbation.  But, I was just released so I no longer have access to it.

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