SeekingUnderstanding Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 4 hours ago, UtahTexan said: I am appreciative that you had to back-peddle. and appreciative that you stated it was just another of your opinions. Thank you. 14 hours ago, UtahTexan said: Whatever makes you feel better. I called you on your statement, I got what was needed. Thanks' 15 hours ago, UtahTexan said: You made the definitive statement...you never said, "I believe" or anything like it. I am glad I got you to backtrack and admit you had no evidence so that it was, yet again, another of your opinions. Thanks On 10/10/2016 at 6:58 PM, UtahTexan said: Thank you for admitting your definitive statement was nothing more than another of your opinions. I appreciate that. On 10/7/2016 at 3:02 PM, UtahTexan said: Not at all. But, your long answer has a short answer: you made a definitive statement for which you had no evidence. It was just another of your opinions. Thank you. While repeating the same untruth over and over seems to be a mantra for certain politicians, and while it may help with your cognitive dissonance, I'm not sure it does anything here than make you look desperate. Indeed if this is the same skill and zeal you brought to bear attacking the church, I'm beginning to doubt Pres. Uchtdorf when he said "[You were] very good at this." 4
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 52 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: While repeating the same untruth over and over seems to be a mantra for certain politicians, and while it may help with your cognitive dissonance, I'm not sure it does anything here than make you look desperate. Indeed if this is the same skill and zeal you brought to bear attacking the church, I'm beginning to doubt Pres. Uchtdorf when he said "[You were] very good at this." And it's the exact same childish behavior he has exhibited in my interaction with him. Of course, in internet slang is simply called trolling. 2
cinepro Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 7 hours ago, UtahTexan said: I am appreciative that you had to back-peddle. and appreciative that you stated it was just another of your opinions. Thank you. Sorry, but I don't believe your definitive statement about being appreciative. Please provide definitive (and objective) evidence that you are, in fact, appreciative. This board has standards and we will not tolerate such misrepresentations any longer! 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: While repeating the same untruth over and over seems to be a mantra for certain politicians, and while it may help with your cognitive dissonance, I'm not sure it does anything here than make you look desperate. Indeed if this is the same skill and zeal you brought to bear attacking the church, I'm beginning to doubt Pres. Uchtdorf when he said "[You were] very good at this." 3 hours ago, rockpond said: And it's the exact same childish behavior he has exhibited in my interaction with him. Of course, in internet slang is simply called trolling. I've seen troll-like behavior; this does not fit that category. You can disagree with him. You can disapprove of his debate style. You can ignore him (which my be the wisest course for you under the circumstances). But accusing him of "cognitive dissonance" (a bit of often meaningless psychobabble turned into tiresome cliche) that has become a favorite among the anti-Mormon crowd) or being a troll? Come on people, grow up. Edited October 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I've seen troll-like behavior; this does not fit that category. You can disagree with him. You can disapprove of his debate style. You can ignore him (which my be the wisest course for you under the circumstances). But accusing him of cognitive dissonance (a bit of often meaningless psychobabble that has become a favorite among the anti-Mormon crowd) or being a troll? Come on people, grow up. Sorry, Scott, but continually repeating the same false and baseless accusations is not a "debate style". Look through his responses to us... I can't believe you are taking the time to defend this behavior.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rockpond said: Sorry, Scott, but continually repeating the same false and baseless accusations is not a "debate style". Look through his responses to us... I can't believe you are taking the time to defend this behavior. What I've seen is a lot of quibbling, push-back and self-justification -- in short, murmuring -- with respect to what constitutes murmuring. The disagreement is more than clear at this point. Let's lay the matter down and move on. Edited October 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: What I've seen is a lot of quibbling, push-back and self-justification -- in short, murmuring -- with respect to what constitutes murmuring. The disagreement is more than clear at this point. Let's lay the matter down and move on. So defending myself against false accusations is now murmuring? And I suppose you have no problem with UtahTexan continuing to make false statements. I honestly cannot believe that you, who seems to care a lot about this board, would defend what he's done the last couple days on this thread. (You'll note I did drop the matter after he stopped making the false accusation. I came back to support Cinepro who was getting the same treatment from UtahTexan.)
Gray Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 3 hours ago, rockpond said: And it's the exact same childish behavior he has exhibited in my interaction with him. Of course, in internet slang is simply called trolling. It's hilariously passive aggressive in the most over the top way possible. I know it's not aimed at me, but I would have a hard time taking offense because it's so silly. 1
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Gray said: It's hilariously passive aggressive in the most over the top way possible. I know it's not aimed at me, but I would have a hard time taking offense because it's so silly. True. It's just that I thought we had standards on this board... standards that kept it more civil and productive than some of the others out there. That's what has kept me engaged here. It's disappointing to see the behavior UtahTexan has exhibited on this thread not be called out by others. And then to have someone like Scott come in and tell us to "grow up"... I just hope that isn't indicative of the direction the board is headed. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, rockpond said: So defending myself against false accusations is now murmuring? No, frequent and repeated complaints and expressions of opposition against the Church of Jesus Christ, its leaders, standards and policies arguably constitutes mumuring. Quote I honestly cannot believe that you, who seems to care a lot about this board, would defend what he's done the last couple days on this thread. (You'll note I did drop the matter after he stopped making the false accusation. I came back to support Cinepro who was getting the same treatment from UtahTexan.) I've observed that UtahTexan has been signaling his intention to end the conversation for the last several of his posts, not what we typically see from a troll. And cinepro is a big boy. I'm confident he could have taken care of himself without the piling on of UtTex from you, Seeking Understanding and Gray. Edited October 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I've observed that UtahTexan has been signaling his intention to end the conversation for the last several of his posts, not what we typically see from a troll. And cinepro is a big boy. I'm confident he could have taken care of himself without the piling on of UtTex from you, Seeking Understanding and Gray. Continuing to repeat false accusations is not a way to end the conversation despite how he might couch it. It's troll-like behavior. Please don't lower yourself to its defense.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 We've gotten off into the weeds here. Any other thoughts about the topic of this thread, which is President Nelson's comment about the goal of missionaries being to bring joy to others as opposed to increasing the membership numbers of the Church?
CV75 Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: No, frequent and repeated complaints and expressions of opposition against the Church of Jesus Christ, its leaders, standards and policies arguably constitutes mumuring. I've observed that UtahTexan has been signaling his intention to end the conversation for the last several of his posts, not what we typically see from a troll. And cinepro is a big boy. I'm confident he could have taken care of himself without the piling on of UtTex from you, Seeking Understanding and Gray. Maybe it was a surrogate reward for lacking one by ruminating over past disavowed and condemned offenses... LOL
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, rockpond said: Continuing to repeat false accusations is not a way to end the conversation despite how he might couch it. It's troll-like behavior. Please don't lower yourself to its defense. sigh. Whatever.
california boy Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, rockpond said: True. It's just that I thought we had standards on this board... standards that kept it more civil and productive than some of the others out there. That's what has kept me engaged here. It's disappointing to see the behavior UtahTexan has exhibited on this thread not be called out by others. And then to have someone like Scott come in and tell us to "grow up"... I just hope that isn't indicative of the direction the board is headed. I think it was pretty clear to most people reading UtahTex's responses to you that he was just being obnoxious. I admire your patience. I would have quit answering his posts days ago. The mistake you made is you thought you could reason with him. Since you are not the only one he treated like that, it is pretty clear that is probably not going to happen. Know when to fold em. 2
Jeanne Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 From one who has been in UtahTex/CountryBoy's path..he can make a discussion an argument without any justification. He has hurt so many people and with those who have reall tried to understand where he is coming from. I couldn't take the abuse anymore so I had to block him. He showed up on Mormon Discussions the other day to point out the fact that he was part of the General Conference. I did not respond..the thing is, he seems so bitter and he could have good conversations if he would just give us a chance. It is hard to believe that he is a recent return to the church because he does not represent the good people I now who are LDS. Perhaps it is the lawyer in him. But I could say..."have a good day" or something nice..and he would say..."you would say that..wouldn't you..being who you are"...it was exhausting. In any case, I wish him well..and a life of peace. He needs to remember how anti he used to be. It was not good. I will get slammed for this..but he is blocked on my end.
CV75 Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 At any rate, our missionaries still teach and baptize to bring joy to the people of the world! 1
Jeanne Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, CV75 said: At any rate, our missionaries still teach and baptize to bring joy to the people of the world! I admire their courage and willingness to serve...even if it is just for Mom and Dad..it is commendable that they make sacrifices to be of service to others in any capacity.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jeanne said: From one who has been in UtahTex/CountryBoy's path..he can make a discussion an argument without any justification. He has hurt so many people and with those who have reall tried to understand where he is coming from. I couldn't take the abuse anymore so I had to block him. He showed up on Mormon Discussions the other day to point out the fact that he was part of the General Conference. I did not respond..the thing is, he seems so bitter and he could have good conversations if he would just give us a chance. It is hard to believe that he is a recent return to the church because he does not represent the good people I now who are LDS. Perhaps it is the lawyer in him. But I could say..."have a good day" or something nice..and he would say..."you would say that..wouldn't you..being who you are"...it was exhausting. In any case, I wish him well..and a life of peace. He needs to remember how anti he used to be. It was not good. I will get slammed for this..but he is blocked on my end. I'm familiar enough with Mormon Discussions to know it is nigh on impossible to have "good conversations" there if one is not part of the hive mentality that prevails on that toxic board. If UtahTexan seems overly defensive now, perhaps it is because he was so recently immersed in that mindset and understands it only too well. Edited October 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd
Jeanne Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I familiar enough with Mormon Discussions to know it is nigh on impossible to have "good conversations" there if one is not part of the hive mentality that prevails on that toxic board. i am not on very much..but they do speak their minds I agree. That being said...it doesn't matter what board you are on when all you want to do is provoke. There are times when there are questions asked with great sincerity and willingness to converse. There are several very devout LDS people on that board..there are intelligent discussions also. He hurt a lot of people over there. I am one of them. But ...when you are getting all the rep points from him and he is defending you here..I can understand that you are partial to him. Edited October 12, 2016 by Jeanne
stemelbow Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 Back to the thread. I thought it was always the purpose of missionaries to baptize people and hopefully joy. Today though, we have far less people getting baptized per missionary than ever before. I'm curious if this becomes a way for us to proclaim we're still reaching our goal and doing well, as opposed to acknowledging the lack of success.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 49 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Back to the thread. I thought it was always the purpose of missionaries to baptize people and hopefully joy. Today though, we have far less people getting baptized per missionary than ever before. I'm curious if this becomes a way for us to proclaim we're still reaching our goal and doing well, as opposed to acknowledging the lack of success. I would expect a comment like this to come from someone who defines success in terms of numbers only. President Nelson apparently does not. I already spoke to this in a prior post, but I'll endeavor to put it another way now: If my goal is to increase the number of members in the Church, I'll use any means I can that I think will bring that about, regardless of whether I help people to truly become converted in the process. I would thus have no qualms, for instance, about caving in to social pressure regarding worldly trends if I saw that as a means of increasing the membership numbers in the Church. On the other hand, if my goal is to bring joy to people, I will focus my efforts on helping them truly become converted to the gospel, with the expectation that ultimately their conversion will cause them to desire to be baptized by one having authority and thus enter into sacred covenants with the Lord. Edited October 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, Jeanne said: i am not on very much..but they do speak their minds I agree. That being said...it doesn't matter what board you are on when all you want to do is provoke. There are times when there are questions asked with great sincerity and willingness to converse. There are several very devout LDS people on that board..there are intelligent discussions also. He hurt a lot of people over there. I am one of them. Other than UtahTexan and perhaps one or two others, I'm hard-pressed to think of any "very devout LDS people" over there. As far as hurting people, my impression is that saying harmful things is pretty much the order of the day there. For that reason, I've seen it referred to as "the Mormon Defamation Board." That said, I'm unaware of him having hurt a lot of people over there -- unless you consider their being angered when their abrasiveness is countered as hurting them. Quote But ...when you are getting all the rep points from him and he is defending you here..I can understand that you are partial to him. Do you really think that's the reason I'm speaking up for him? Because he gives me rep points? sigh. Whatever.
rockpond Posted October 12, 2016 Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: As far as hurting people, my impression is that saying harmful things is pretty much the order of the day there. For that reason, I've seen it referred to as "the Mormon Defamation Board." Ironic that you would note this while seemingly defending his acts of defamation here on this thread. I think we all ought to be vigilant lest we become like that board. The requirement to respond to a CFR has already been lost. Looking at what happened on this thread... what's next?
Scott Lloyd Posted October 12, 2016 Author Posted October 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, rockpond said: Ironic that you would note this while seemingly defending his acts of defamation here on this thread. I think we all ought to be vigilant lest we become like that board. The requirement to respond to a CFR has already been lost. Looking at what happened on this thread... what's next? I've not seen Utah Texan defaming anyone in this thread. I know that the charge has been flung about quite a bit.
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