Licked Cupcake & Used Chewing Gum Poll

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Your closing line in your first paragraph is totally contradicted by your opinion in paragraph two.

You're saying, essentially, that a non-Mormon woman who has been sexually active before being baptized but then gets baptized, can never consider herself clean. The "Gospel and the Atonement of Jesus Christ offers tremendous promises of peace and forgiveness, BUT"

I don't get that at all from his writing.  Instead he is saying (in my opinion) that the undesirable physical consequences won't be removed , for example virginity itself is not restored by baptism (and no one should care about that, imo, so I don't see that as something that needs to be restored) or perhaps the effects of a STD, long term health consequences will be healed when resurrected, but not before except what can be managed through medicine if it is available.

He makes the point in the first paragraph that any spiritual effects of sin can be cleansed through the Atonement through repentance.  Recognizing that physical effects of the behavior (effects that would be the same whether it was a sin or sexual activity engaged in marriage) such as loss of virginity, getting pregnant or other more dangerous results such as STDs are long term is in no way denying the ability of the Atonement to cleanse one of spiritual effects.

[Danzo]

3 hours ago, Eek! said:

That my recollection of the opinion of a professional, which you are of course free to dismiss for any of a variety of reasons.. 

So it was an opinion. You didn't state that originally. I thought it was based on facts. It is customary to provide facts when one is accusing someone of mass homicide.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Danzo

[Eek!]

20 minutes ago, Danzo said:

So it was an opinion. You didn't state that originally. I thought it was based on facts. It is customary to provide facts when one is accusing someone of mass homicide.

Sorry that wasn't clear; I have edited my post accordingly.

If you really thought I was "accusing someone of mass homicide", I can see why you would be upset.  

[Kenngo1969]

bcuzbcuz,

Alas, the only thing I can do on the Board while at work is give rep points, but Cal got my point perfectly.  Perhaps an illustration that removes my point from the highly-charged realm of physical intimacy will serve to illustrate.  Suppose someone who spent much of his life as an irresolute drunkard then is introduced to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, stops drinking, is reformed, and begins living the Word of Wisdom and the other commitments and covenants associated with the Restored Gospel.  

Suppose that, alas, his reformation notwithstanding, this gentleman then is diagnosed with severe cirrhosis and/or other end-stage liver disease and is given weeks or months to live.  Has he repented?  Yes.  Has he been forgiven? Yes. Does the Lord love him any less, notwithstanding his being subject to the law of the harvest? No. Is the Atonement of Jesus Christ fully operative in his life.  Yes.  But absent a miracle that may or may not come to pass depending on what best meets the Lord's earthly, mortal purposes for him and for those around him, he is still subject to the physical, mortal consequences of his prior choices and his prior addictive, not-fully-choice-driven behavior.

Even Rain, who is not fully sure she agrees with me, gets my point.  

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Kenngo1969

[Scott Lloyd]

22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

bcuzbcuz,

Alas, the only thing I can do on the Board while at work is give rep points, but Cal got my point perfectly.  Perhaps an illustration that removes my point from the highly-charged realm of physical intimacy will serve to illustrate.  Suppose someone who spent much of his life as an irresolute drunkard then is introduced to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, stops drinking, is reformed, and begins living the Word of Wisdom and the other commitments and covenants associated with the Restored Gospel.  

Suppose that, alas, his reformation notwithstanding, this gentleman then is diagnosed with severe cirrhosis and/or other end-stage liver disease and is given weeks or months to live.  Has he repented?  Yes.  Has he been forgiven? Yes. Does the Lord love him any less, notwithstanding his being subject to the law of the harvest? No. Is the Atonement of Jesus Christ fully operative in his life.  Yes.  But absent a miracle that may or may not come to pass depending on what best meets the Lord's earthly, mortal purposes for him and for those around him, he is still subject to the physical, mortal consequences of his prior choices and his prior addictive, not-fully-choice-driven behavior.

Even Rain, who is not fully sure she agrees with me, gets my point.  

 

It's a point that's self-evident. 

[Rain]

42 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

bcuzbcuz,

Alas, the only thing I can do on the Board while at work is give rep points, but Cal got my point perfectly.  Perhaps an illustration that removes my point from the highly-charged realm of physical intimacy will serve to illustrate.  Suppose someone who spent much of his life as an irresolute drunkard then is introduced to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, stops drinking, is reformed, and begins living the Word of Wisdom and the other commitments and covenants associated with the Restored Gospel.  

Suppose that, alas, his reformation notwithstanding, this gentleman then is diagnosed with severe cirrhosis and/or other end-stage liver disease and is given weeks or months to live.  Has he repented?  Yes.  Has he been forgiven? Yes. Does the Lord love him any less, notwithstanding his being subject to the law of the harvest? No. Is the Atonement of Jesus Christ fully operative in his life.  Yes.  But absent a miracle that may or may not come to pass depending on what best meets the Lord's earthly, mortal purposes for him and for those around him, he is still subject to the physical, mortal consequences of his prior choices and his prior addictive, not-fully-choice-driven behavior.

Even Rain, who is not fully sure she agrees with me, gets my point.  

 

Lol. Actually I wasn't sure.  After Scott, Calm and bcuz posted I had to go back and read it because with some of the wording it sounded like you agreed with me,  but with some it sounded like,  to me, that you felt the worthiness may still be a problem after repentance. I'm glad you clarified because I still wasn't sure after reading a second time. 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Rain

[Meadowchik]

On Sunday, September 04, 2016 at 5:58 AM, waveslider said:

I remember being told the nail in the board type of thing in my primary class once, and it never really made sense to me since I was also taught that if we truly repent that the Lord will remember our sins no more. This was many years before I even had a testimony too. Personally I don't like the chewing gum and cupcake thing since hearing about it here either.

That's the one I remember.