Storm Rider Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Teancum said: Wow what a cynical post. I hope you are in good physical shape. Care to join me for a fast 50 plus mile bike ride with lots of climbing in 90 degree humid weather? How well would you fare? Extreme physical activity should not be entered into without proper training and preparation as well as education about under or over hydration if the activity involves any heat. Walking 8 to 10 miles a day along with packing gear in high heat is plain dumb without proper training and preparation. If stakes are going to do these treks they better provide a training plan and education for those who participate. Yes most youth and adults today are not In shape to do something like this. So it is foolish to put such a thing together without proper preparation. Nope, that is not what cynical is - it is what we call sarcasm. Please read the entire thread to understand, Still appreciate your comments. I don't bike, but if you want to join me on another Camino I am more than happy to go again.
rpn Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 There is one aspect to this authenticity that deserves consideration. The handcart pioneers traveled far enough north that I'd imagine most days were in the 80's. And as they went west there would have been less humidity as it got hotter. Probably none of them wore garments (which then were not often worn outside the temple, and the handcart pioneers wouldn't have had any opportunity to have gotten their endowments either). Some of the women on trek today wear pants under their dresses, so that is at least one and perhaps two extra layers of clothing than the handcart pioneers, and if you are south of the route west they took all combined could make for a very much different experience. 1
Teancum Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Storm Rider said: Nope, that is not what cynical is - it is what we call sarcasm. Please read the entire thread to understand, Still appreciate your comments. I don't bike, but if you want to join me on another Camino I am more than happy to go again. Ok very sarcastic. A Camino sounds like a wonderful thing. And you should try cycling.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 25, 2016 Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) On 6/23/2016 at 10:16 AM, Danzo said: I think the real reason is that Automobiles are just more dangerous than black bears. On 6/23/2016 at 10:19 AM, jkwilliams said: So, let me get this straight: you're actually arguing that it's not irresponsible to hold campouts where bears are all too common because more people are killed in cars than by bears? Really? On 6/23/2016 at 10:28 AM, Doctor Steuss said: I think we can at least find common ground that bears driving automobiles at camps would be bad. According to the Royal Guardsmen, it's not just campgrounds we have to worry about. Edited June 25, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 1
thatjimguy Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) The thing I have a problem with is that it seems it is designed to "force by shock" a belief in the church and it's truth. Kind of like boot camp. They break you down to build you back up. It is pretty much a mind trick. Not a fan. Won't kids have their own trials throughout life to deal with? Do we really have to give them one by proxy? Instead of reliving someone else's testimony, wouldn't it be wiser to keep encouraging them to focus on their own life and apply the gospel to it? Edited June 26, 2016 by thatjimguy 4
cynth Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 4:25 PM, smac97 said: I think your reckoning is a bit overwrought. Every year tens (hundreds?) of millions of people all over the world visit and swim in lakes, reservoirs, rivers and oceans where there are no "certified lifeguards" around. Are these folks "negligent" too? Or is negligent only when Mormons are involved and there's a chance to faultfind? Thanks, -Smac Oh boy. yes, yes, yes! it is negligent to swim anywhere without having certified lifeguards. it is so negligent out here in the East where I live that it is simply a rule. no lifeguard? No swimming. end of story.
cynth Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 On 6/23/2016 at 9:09 AM, Storm Rider said: It is this exaggeration that I most reject and find so irrational and an emotional knee-jerk response to an unfortunate accident. I suspect that this young mother had other issues or was personally highly susceptible to heat exhaustion and even with her father warning her of the symptoms as well as many others, she did not take note of her own symptoms and she over-extended herself in the heat. No child died; no other child got sick; this was an accident unique to this person just as my wife is susceptible to the same problem. Shutting down Treks because a young woman died does not stop accidents from happening in the future. That is incorrect, 5 other youth had already been transported by paramedics to the hospital. 3 were so ill that they were unconscious when paramedics arrived. "Blair has not been the only person with a heat-related issue from the camp. Five minors were taken by EMS for treatment last week, three of which were unconscious at the time EMS arrived." http://bartlesvilleradio.com/pages/news/121972016/arkansas-woman-dies-from-heat-related-illness-in-pawhuska
jkwilliams Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, cynth said: That is incorrect, 5 other youth had already been transported by paramedics to the hospital. 3 were so ill that they were unconscious when paramedics arrived. "Blair has not been the only person with a heat-related issue from the camp. Five minors were taken by EMS for treatment last week, three of which were unconscious at the time EMS arrived." http://bartlesvilleradio.com/pages/news/121972016/arkansas-woman-dies-from-heat-related-illness-in-pawhuska My daughter tells me this happened at the same place in Oklahoma where her disastrous trek occurred.
Jeanne Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 (edited) 26 minutes ago, cynth said: Oh boy. yes, yes, yes! it is negligent to swim anywhere without having certified lifeguards. it is so negligent out here in the East where I live that it is simply a rule. no lifeguard? No swimming. end of story. There are different ways to drown too. I lost an eleven year old niece i an ice skating incident. A cold winter..but there was no way to even guess how solid the ice really is. I am hoping someday..things like this can be monitored somehow. But I agree...too many close calls without oversight. Sorry that this is not part of the conversation..but we can lose people..so fast! Edited June 26, 2016 by Jeanne
cynth Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, Jeanne said: There are different ways to drown too. I lost an eleven year old niece i an ice skating incident. A cold winter..but there was no way to even guess how solid the ice really is. I am hoping someday..things like this can be monitored somehow. But I agree...too many close calls without oversight. Sorry that this is not part of the conversation..but we can lose people..so fast! I'm sorry, that happened, what a difficult experience. Hopefully there will be a method in the future to prevent tragedies like your niece's. My heart goes out to you. 1
Jeanne Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, cynth said: I'm sorry, that happened, what a difficult experience. Hopefully there will be a method in the future to prevent tragedies like your niece's. My heart goes out to you. Thank you so much...her namesake now calls me "grandma".
cynth Posted June 26, 2016 Posted June 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: Thank you so much...her namesake now calls me "grandma". Lovely! congrats. : )))) 1
Yirgacheffe Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 0:40 PM, Storm Rider said: Trek is just too hard for the enfeebled youth of today to endure. If they are going to relive some of the experiences of their pioneer ancestors they should all be in an air conditioned bus as they drive to several points to de-bus and hear some quaint story about the trials of Mormon pioneers. Then they could get back on the bus for dessert and ice cream before going to the next stop. No need to dress them in pioneer regalia because, God knows, we would not want little Tommy and little Lucy to be uncomfortable. After all, it is pure abuse if these little people endure any degree of discomfort in their lives. We could also make sure the buses had televisions for playing movies non-stop and all the X-Boxes so that none of them missed any games while swilling soda pop and throwing back their 15,000 calorie per bite snacks. Who ever heard of children having their horizons expanded by enduring, if just for a few days, some of the experiences of their ancestors. Yup, down with trek; down with youth camp; down with anything that causes growth; down with trials; down with discomfort! Up with fat children that have never experienced physical trials. Yes, we are building the strong leaders of tomorrow! Seriously people??? Wimpy sure, but you know I appreciate that I can turn a knob to start a fire (instead of carrying in the wood) to cook dinner using virtually weightless aluminum pans coated in teflon (instead of cast iron), I appreciate that I lift a rod and water is there(instead of filling bucket after bucket till I get what I need), that I take light dry clothing bounce downstairs and toss it in the washer only to quickly and easily transfer it to another device for drying (I don't even want to think about doing laundry 150 years ago). Pioneers' everyday lives kept them in condition, modern life does not. As I see it it's not so much that we are "wimpy" but that what is successful in our modern economy requires no physical exertion what so ever. If a person makes a living in a profession that requires physical activity (outside of professional sports) they don't hold a powerful or respected position in society today, it seems the "upper crust" still resents those they have call in for such mundane things as house building, plumbing and so on. I know plenty of people in "the trades" who could do a trek standing and barely break a sweat, and I've seen their kids at work under harsh conditions come through it without trouble. Frankly I don't understand why this is a thing in Oklahoma or why a woman from Arkansas should want to re-enact history that has nothing to do with them, why should converts or the descents of converts care and what is so special about LDS pioneers they weren't the only pioneers who suffered, sacrificed, lost love ones or died "trekking" to a new place.
Yirgacheffe Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 0:40 PM, Storm Rider said: Trek is just too hard for the enfeebled youth of today to endure. If they are going to relive some of the experiences of their pioneer ancestors they should all be in an air conditioned bus as they drive to several points to de-bus and hear some quaint story about the trials of Mormon pioneers. Then they could get back on the bus for dessert and ice cream before going to the next stop. No need to dress them in pioneer regalia because, God knows, we would not want little Tommy and little Lucy to be uncomfortable. After all, it is pure abuse if these little people endure any degree of discomfort in their lives. We could also make sure the buses had televisions for playing movies non-stop and all the X-Boxes so that none of them missed any games while swilling soda pop and throwing back their 15,000 calorie per bite snacks. Who ever heard of children having their horizons expanded by enduring, if just for a few days, some of the experiences of their ancestors. Yup, down with trek; down with youth camp; down with anything that causes growth; down with trials; down with discomfort! Up with fat children that have never experienced physical trials. Yes, we are building the strong leaders of tomorrow! Seriously people??? Death is a little beyond "discomfort" but if that's your attitude towards the whole thing I will keep it in mind, and point it out to others who discuss it.
maxrep12 Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 On 6/23/2016 at 7:37 PM, Teancum said: I hope you are in good physical shape. Care to join me for a fast 50 plus mile bike ride with lots of climbing in 90 degree humid weather? How well would you fare? Ha! Those were my exact thoughts. Put him on the bike and we'll see who's the domesticated house cat.
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