thesometimesaint Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 God causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust. 1
california boy Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 All who believe God causes natural disasters to punish the wicked also have to accept that apparently God is very unhappy about how His temples are being used. Didn't Moroni get fried to a chrisp by lightning a couple of weeks ago? A sure sign from God He is not pleased with the new church policy against gay families. Let those with ears hear the warnings of God.
Teancum Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 On May 19, 2016 at 7:44 PM, carbon dioxide said: God can use nature to destroy wicked people but I don't think in most natural disaster events God is controlling it. Any moderate earthquake that simply knocks some stuff of the store shelves was not caused by God for example. God is not going to take time out of his schedule to knock some ketchup off a Walmart shelf. How about the earthquake that caused the tsunami that killed 200,000 people in the Indonesia area a number of years ago?
Teancum Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 On May 20, 2016 at 0:06 AM, JLHPROF said: My sentiments exactly. Sometimes it's God. Sometimes it's mortal existence. But God is aware of every sparrow fall. So if God controls nature but nature can run its course is it not the same result if God decides not prevent a natural disaster that kills many?
Thinking Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 On 5/19/2016 at 5:43 PM, Duncan said: It seems like the weather is getting just plain old weird. I am dumbstruck with Fort. Macmurray being evacuated due to fires, Calgary being flooded of all things and other examples. I usually attribute divine disfavour when certain Canadian cities don't win the NHL's Stanley Cup, like it's been 23 years since a Canadian team won the cup God is Canadian?
Duncan Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 15 minutes ago, Thinking said: God is Canadian? um, yeah! You haven't heard? 2
Duncan Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 Just now, Thinking said: Natural disasters are ... natural disasters. Unless you're talking about these Natural Disasters 2
The Nehor Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Teancum said: So if God controls nature but nature can run its course is it not the same result if God decides not prevent a natural disaster that kills many? We cannot justly claim God is responsible for good things that seem to happen and then not give Him some responsibility for what goes wrong. The problem is mitigated by the voluntary nature of earth life and us being briefed on the rules in advance. While God has all power he limits his interactions here according to divinely wise rules that we have only the most broad understanding of. We know almost nothing of the specifics. 2
carbon dioxide Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 We live in a fallen world were disasters happen naturally. God may use his power to cause events to occur and he may use his power to hold off an event that might occur otherwise. We simply can't attribute every event to God doing or not doing something. However I do find it interesting if one looks at just earthquake fault lines in the US, all of the major ones whether it be the San Andreas, New Madrid, the fault off Washington, or Watsach or others, they are all due or overdue for a major quake. We could very easily see two or three major earthquakes in the next 30 or 40 years hit at a level of destruction we have never seen in our nations history. I think when one looks at natural disasters, wars, and other things like antibiotic resistant bacteria, we are going to see far more global disruption in the next 50 years than we saw at least since WW2. Probably even before that.
mnn727 Posted May 29, 2016 Posted May 29, 2016 On 5/19/2016 at 6:22 PM, Sky said: Or is this idea simply an outdated, religious superstition? this
The Nehor Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 11 hours ago, Thinking said: God is Canadian? These guys are in so much trouble: 1
bcuzbcuz Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 4 hours ago, The Nehor said: These guys are in so much trouble: "We must disguise our hate....just a little." Loooooove it!
bcuzbcuz Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Does God use natural disasters to destroy the wicked? I think he missed a few.
Atheist Mormon Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 On 5/19/2016 at 6:22 PM, Sky said: The Book of Mormon indicates that certain cities in the new world were taken out for their wickedness. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The late Spencer W. Kimball once said that the fate of Pompeii was ultimately because of the wickedness of the people. But can a loving God really be this vengeful and angry? Is there any modern parallel to this? Or is this idea simply an outdated, religious superstition? No, God has nothing to do with it....All you have to do is look at the randomness of calamities. It is part of nature.
thesometimesaint Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 5 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: No, God has nothing to do with it....All you have to do is look at the randomness of calamities. It is part of nature. Everyone of us will die someday. God is the only one who can bring us back. 1
GrainofSalt Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 On 2016-05-20 at 2:44 PM, JLHPROF said: The flaw in thinking on both sides is that these are not mutually exclusive causes. A drought may be a regular weather event as part of a scientific cycle. A drought may be a tool God uses to punish the wicked or to test the faith of the righteous. Or, and here's the real kicker, it may be BOTH. The progressive scientific crowd likes to say it's not God, it's nature. But something being a natural phenomenon doesn't prevent God from directing it. Maybe this would be true back when the population was a small fraction of what it is today. Back then, there was nothing men could do to physically change the climate. But I don't think we live in that situation now. I therefore think blaming either God or Nature is not up-to-date. We have to accept the possibility that we are contributing to the instability of the weather, and hydraulic fracturing does cause earthquakes too. So to start thinking that God willed this or that city to be destroyed, it's just a very convenient way to dodge any blame for misusing of resources. That being said, I still think sin does somehow contribute to the equation, but then it may be someone else' sin that does you in.
california boy Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 On May 20, 2016 at 1:22 AM, Sky said: The Book of Mormon indicates that certain cities in the new world were taken out for their wickedness. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The late Spencer W. Kimball once said that the fate of Pompeii was ultimately because of the wickedness of the people. But can a loving God really be this vengeful and angry? Is there any modern parallel to this? Or is this idea simply an outdated, religious superstition? I think the statement by Spencer W. Kimball that the fate of Pompeii was ultimately because of the wickedness of the people is exactly why one can not trust what some other prophet wrote in what has become our scriptures. Probably most of the Bible is just personal opinion, with all the bias and prejudice that come with those opinions. To say that Pompeii was more wicket than say Rome, where people were being brutally murdered, enslaved, whipped, flogged, crucified, drawn and quartered etc, as a policy of state seems way more worth destroying than a seaside town with a few grand villas for the wealthy. Yes there was sex. But there was sex all over the place. A few bath houses, and prostitution. Where hasn't there been prostitution? What other wickedness made Pompeii ripe for destruction? Or should one just not engage in prostitution at the foot of a volcano? What did Spencer W. Kimball ever say that would indicate that Pompeii was exceptionally wicked to the point that of all the places on earth that needed to be destroyed, Pompeii was the place.. Is sex always the trump card for getting a city destroyed? Murder, rape, slavery as a government policy is just not wicked enough? These kinds of statements just reinforce the prejudice bias attributing of natural disasters to God. Hard to take a lot of what the Bible reports as God's words when modern prophets make such statements.
GrainofSalt Posted May 31, 2016 Posted May 31, 2016 16 hours ago, california boy said: I think the statement by Spencer W. Kimball that the fate of Pompeii was ultimately because of the wickedness of the people is exactly why one can not trust what some other prophet wrote in what has become our scriptures. Probably most of the Bible is just personal opinion, with all the bias and prejudice that come with those opinions. To say that Pompeii was more wicket than say Rome, where people were being brutally murdered, enslaved, whipped, flogged, crucified, drawn and quartered etc, as a policy of state seems way more worth destroying than a seaside town with a few grand villas for the wealthy. Yes there was sex. But there was sex all over the place. A few bath houses, and prostitution. Where hasn't there been prostitution? What other wickedness made Pompeii ripe for destruction? Or should one just not engage in prostitution at the foot of a volcano? What did Spencer W. Kimball ever say that would indicate that Pompeii was exceptionally wicked to the point that of all the places on earth that needed to be destroyed, Pompeii was the place.. Is sex always the trump card for getting a city destroyed? Murder, rape, slavery as a government policy is just not wicked enough? These kinds of statements just reinforce the prejudice bias attributing of natural disasters to God. Hard to take a lot of what the Bible reports as God's words when modern prophets make such statements. Maybe a city didn't have to be the most wicked on earth to be destroyed. Maybe there were hundreds of cities that God could have chosen to destroy (or allowed to be destroyed) because of their wickedness. To us it seems fair that God would hit the worst first, but maybe this is not the Lord's way of doing things. He might keep wicked cities going for reasons known only to Himself. Don't know the answer - just a thought.
Gray Posted June 1, 2016 Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) On 5/29/2016 at 11:31 AM, california boy said: All who believe God causes natural disasters to punish the wicked also have to accept that apparently God is very unhappy about how His temples are being used. Didn't Moroni get fried to a chrisp by lightning a couple of weeks ago? A sure sign from God He is not pleased with the new church policy against gay families. Let those with ears hear the warnings of God. Yes, that's really the problem with trying to divine Divine disfavor from natural disasters. One has to be extremely selective and inconsistent with the the way one interprets such events. Edited June 1, 2016 by Gray
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