Elijah's Coming

[Duncan]

In Malachi it talks about Elijah coming before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. What do you say though when others say that Elijah fulfilled that promise when he came and gave the Keys to Peter, James and John on the Mount of Transfiguration and therefore wouldn't have come on April 3, 1836?  

[CV75]

27 minutes ago, Duncan said:

In Malachi it talks about Elijah coming before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. What do you say though when others say that Elijah fulfilled that promise when he came and gave the Keys to Peter, James and John on the Mount of Transfiguration and therefore wouldn't have come on April 3, 1836?  

"Oops, he did it again."

[JAHS]

5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The second verse gives us a clue. After his first appearance on the mount were the hearts of the children turned to their fathers? The only evidence of that happening was after he appeared to Joseph Smith and restored the power to seal children to their fathers.

[RevTestament]

This is a good question - that I have pondered myself since one must wonder why Jesus seems to be calling John the Baptist Elijah. The prophecy speaks of a curse upon the whole earth if the children don't turn their hearts to their fathers. This obviously didn't happen with the ministry of John the Baptist. John was simply exercising the key of Elijah as a preparer. 

Jesus Himself was clearly quoting from Malachi 3 about his own coming as the messenger of the covenant, and of His preparer. 

Malachi 4 is clearly speaking of different events, and the great and dreadful day spoken of in verse 5 is referencing verse 1 which says:

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Other scriptures such as Revelation speak of the great and dreadful day of the Lord as being at the end. It is in the seventh seal. So God is promising to send Elijah before this great and dreadful day - not as a preparer for the messenger of the covenant but for the purpose of turning the hearts of the children to their forebears and warning them the time is up. To say that John the Baptist somehow fulfilled this prophecy 2000 years before is quite the stretch, but of course it doesn't stop the Athanasian Christians from doing so, because otherwise their theology is in trouble, because obviously this returning Elijah must appear to somebody. Of course this is not the only way they are in trouble since with the exception of Catholics they tend to believe the canon is closed and that there are no more prophets nor prophecies in contravention of Revelation which says the 2 witnesses shall prophesy to Jerusalem. 

[JAHS]

21 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

This is a good question - that I have pondered myself since one must wonder why Jesus seems to be calling John the Baptist Elijah. The prophecy speaks of a curse upon the whole earth if the children don't turn their hearts to their fathers. This obviously didn't happen with the ministry of John the Baptist. John was simply exercising the key of Elijah as a preparer. 

Jesus Himself was clearly quoting from Malachi 3 about his own coming as the messenger of the covenant, and of His preparer. 

Malachi 4 is clearly speaking of different events, and the great and dreadful day spoken of in verse 5 is referencing verse 1 which says:

1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 

5 ¶Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

Other scriptures such as Revelation speak of the great and dreadful day of the Lord as being at the end. It is in the seventh seal. So God is promising to send Elijah before this great and dreadful day - not as a preparer for the messenger of the covenant but for the purpose of turning the hearts of the children to their forebears and warning them the time is up. To say that John the Baptist somehow fulfilled this prophecy 2000 years before is quite the stretch, but of course it doesn't stop the Athanasian Christians from doing so, because otherwise their theology is in trouble, because obviously this returning Elijah must appear to somebody. Of course this is not the only way they are in trouble since with the exception of Catholics they tend to believe the canon is closed and that there are no more prophets nor prophecies in contravention of Revelation which says the 2 witnesses shall prophesy to Jerusalem. 

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a good article bout this subject.

The Coming of Elijah

[RevTestament]

19 minutes ago, JAHS said:

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a good article bout this subject.

The Coming of Elijah

Yes, I should have pointed this out - that Jesus seems to indicate Elias of Malachi 4 is still to come:

“Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

“But I say unto you, that Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed …” (Matt. 17:11–12.)

Jesus is speaking of priesthood keys, and the listeners are hearing the name of an individual.

[Robert F. Smith]

13 hours ago, Duncan said:

In Malachi it talks about Elijah coming before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. What do you say though when others say that Elijah fulfilled that promise when he came and gave the Keys to Peter, James and John on the Mount of Transfiguration and therefore wouldn't have come on April 3, 1836?  

Jewish tradition is that he is the forerunner to the Messiah, coming just before the great & dreadful Day of the Lord -- a Day which has yet to come.  So at the Passover seder meal on April 22, just  last month, all Jews set out a cup of wine for Elijah (should he choose to come), and the children even opened the door for him, just in case . . .

How interesting that Ellijah came to the Kirtland Temple at Passover in 1836.  Stephen Ricks, “The Appearance of Elijah and Moses in the Kirtland Temple and the Jewish Passover,” BYU Studies, 23/4 (1983):483-486.  D&C 110:13-16 (April 3, 1836).  https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/view/5375 .

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, JAHS said:

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote a good article bout this subject.

The Coming of Elijah

That's one of the first questions I had when I joined the church and that was one of the first answers I got to that question

We see that a lot in cases also of divine investiture where one stands in the place of the Lord- as Jacob wrestling the "angel" (Jehovah?) and others.  We have the name Adam standing also as a title, and Christ as the second "Adam" etc.

Names are often seen as titles in th egospel

[halconero]

Elijah/Elias (Hebrew/Greek version of the name) is a title as much as Messiah is, and as has been mentioned in this thread, one which can be invested in multiple people. Among those who have held the title/name are Elias from the Dispensation of Abraham, Elijah the Tishbite, Gabriel/Noah, John the Baptist, and John the Revelator.

Interestingly, as late as 1843 and 1844 Joseph Smith was teaching that the prophecy of Elijah's return would yet still occur, even after Kirtland, and that the restoration of promises extended far beyond proxy work for the dead, and in fact, that these proxy ordinances were preliminary to an even more significant restoration of promises under Elijah's hand (whether that meant Elijah the Tishbite or another holding that title is unclear. At this point Joseph was teaching quite a bit regarding divine investiture of titles). I have no doubt regarding Elijah's visit to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery at Kirtland, and the magnificent blessings and keys restored there. Yet I'm starting to consider the possibility of an even more significant restoration from Elijah, especially as it relates to the Aaronic Priesthood, the Purification of the Sons of Levi, the Offering of Righteousness and much more.

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, halconero said:

Elijah/Elias (Hebrew/Greek version of the name) is a title as much as Messiah is, and as has been mentioned in this thread, one which can be invested in multiple people. Among those who have held the title/name are Elias from the Dispensation of Abraham, Elijah the Tishbite, Gabriel/Noah, John the Baptist, and John the Revelator.

Interestingly, as late as 1843 and 1844 Joseph Smith was teaching that the prophecy of Elijah's return would yet still occur, even after Kirtland, and that the restoration of promises extended far beyond proxy work for the dead, and in fact, that these proxy ordinances were preliminary to an even more significant restoration of promises under Elijah's hand (whether that meant Elijah the Tishbite or another holding that title is unclear. At this point Joseph was teaching quite a bit regarding divine investiture of titles). I have no doubt regarding Elijah's visit to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery at Kirtland, and the magnificent blessings and keys restored there. Yet I'm starting to consider the possibility of an even more significant restoration from Elijah, especially as it relates to the Aaronic Priesthood, the Purification of the Sons of Levi, the Offering of Righteousness and much more.

I've often thought that as the time of the Lord's second coming approaches, we will see some rather significant spiritual events and new revelations emanating from the Church. It's an exciting time to be alive, actually.  Even if it can be painful in some ways.

[halconero]

33 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I've often thought that as the time of the Lord's second coming approaches, we will see some rather significant spiritual events and new revelations emanating from the Church. It's an exciting time to be alive, actually.  Even if it can be painful in some ways.

I feel the same. There's a sense of urgency and need to prepare myself and the people within my stewardship that I've never quite felt before. Whatever that means for the world in general, I know that for myself it means that I need to be prepared to be the "man God foreordained [me] to be - ready to bear the priesthood of God bravely, eager to pay whatever the price is required to increase power in the priesthood."

As the time of this earth's Telestial state comes to a close I personally believe that there must be a restoration and fulfillment of the righteous laws and ordinances pertaining to that State. In this I see the fulfillment of Elijah's promise, and the wrapping up of dispensations, ordinances, and authorities, of which Joseph Smith actually spoke of considerably. I do believe however, that even in the arrival of an Elias-type figure (whether Elijah the Tishbite himself, or another endowed with that title) it will be done within the order and organization of the Church.