Why was Muhammad Wrong?

[canard78]

8 hours ago, boblloyd91 said:

I believe the testimony of the scriptures regarding the divinity of Jesus Christ. I also base it off my experiences with Christ  where I believe I have witnessed healing, prophecy, and other spiritual gifts in the context of having faith in him. Any thing that disputes the scriptures and my experience is obviously something I will have a hard time believing. 

This is a really interesting discussion and I'm going to try to keep up with it. 

Essentially it boils down to: "my spiritual witness trumps theirs."

How are these experiences more or less valid than those of Mormons:

"I said to God: 'Please point me the way!'
A few months later, I ...came into contact with Islam. I was convinced that Islam is the right religion and felt the light was burning in my heart. I wanted to talk to God but I had trouble keeping his name on my lips to get and talk to him. I felt him as if he said to me, "but it is good to talk to Me." I finally got it and I thought it was a great feeling. I often spoke to God and He answered me in my dreams.
...Now I understand the truth, Islam is complete and very beautiful."

Or:

 "After months of study and research I could not deny the truth anymore. I had put it off too long, but was still living the life I had before, and knew that if I became a Muslim I had to give all that up. One day while reading the Qur'an, I began to cry and fell to my knees and thanked Allah for guiding me to the truth. I found out that there was a Mosque by my house so I went one Friday to see how Muslims prayed and conducted their service... A man got up and began to call the Adthan (call for prayer). When I heard it my eyes filled up with tears because it sounded so beautiful. It was all so strange at first, but seemed so right at the same time. Islam is not just a religion but a way of life."

http://testimoniesofotherfaiths.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/muslim-conversion-stories.html?m=1

[Rajah Manchou]

13 hours ago, Steve Noel said:

Muhammad of Mecca said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and gave him revelations from God over a 23 year period. These revelations were collected and published as the Qur'an. According to these revelations Jesus was not God, nor the Son of God, but only a prophet of God. According to these revelations Jesus was not the Savior of the world. According to these revelations Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world.

On what basis do Latter-day Saints reject this alleged revelation from God through his alleged prophet Muhammad?

Would first need to know exactly what the Qur'an says. Does anyone have the verses in question?
 

[CV75]

12 hours ago, Steve Noel said:

Muhammad is claiming that he has personal revelation as well. Why is his personal testimony false and your personal testimony true?

I would like to expand on my response above. I am grateful for the Bible, and for being born in a time and place that it is accessible to me. I am grateful that before I was old enough to read it, I lived in a Judaeo-Christian culture that thrived on Christian beliefs, and had a sense of right from wrong (the gift of the light of Christ in my life). I am grateful that, when I was 10 years old, I received my own copy (a birthday gift from our Methodist minister) and read it from cover to cover over a few months' time. I am grateful that later in life I came across the scriptures of the Restoration, and lived in a time and place that i could join the LDS Church, and for having learned the miracle of the preservation of the scriptures that came to be the Bible.

I owe all these privileges, which I hope to live up to, to the principle taught in Acts 17:24 – 28, “God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”

God determined the birth and times of Muhammad, and the bounds of his habitation, just as everyone else born without my privileges. These of God's children also might feel after him and find him according tot he light they can access in their circumstances; they should seek the Lord by following their conscience. I take it on face value they are doing this, and a fullness of the Gospel can eventually be theirs (if not in this life, then the next, according to the restored doctrine of the redemption of the dead). Wherever these children are led astray in this life, having no opportunity to find out what I did, and somehow offend me in the process, I think the Lord extends great mercy, as in "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." But I don''t see how Muhammad's writings are an offense to me.

I also suppose that whether I decline to believe or flat-out reject something has a lot to do with how, and with what attitude or spirit, it is presented to me.

 

[CV75]

6 hours ago, canard78 said:

Essentially it boils down to: "my spiritual witness trumps theirs."

Not really. I find it to be rather, “My spiritual witness is mine and reflects the "kingdom" I cleave to.”

From D&C 88: 38-40, “And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. [Everyone abides in one condition or another and determines himself  justified.] For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.”

So we can have all sorts of spiritual experiences according to the particular brand and quality of intelligence, wisdom, truth, virtue, light, mercy and judgement that we determine to govern us.

[mapman]

38 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Not really. I find it to be rather, “My spiritual witness is mine and reflects the "kingdom" I cleave to.”

 

From D&C 88: 38-40, “And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions. [Everyone abides in one condition or another and determines himself  justified.] For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.”

 

So we can have all sorts of spiritual experiences according to the particular brand and quality of intelligence, wisdom, truth, virtue, light, mercy and judgement that we determine to govern us.

 

I totally agree with this. I think God will testify of truth wherever it is found. My spritual experiences that lead me to be a member of the church in no way invalidate the spiritual experiences of a Muslim or anyone else.

[mapman]

I kind of feel obligated to defend Islam against some of the things that have been said. Saying the Muhammad was a false prophet because some of his followers have used violence and compulsion to further their goals is like saying that Jesus was a false prophet because the Inquisition and the Crusades happened. Quran 2:256 says, "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." That was what Muhammad taught, so he is not responsable for people distorting his revelation after the fact. Muhammad has converted billions of people to devotion to God. The five pillars of Islam are the declaration of faith, prayer, charitible giving, fasting, and the pilgrimage to Mecca. Those are the basis for the spiritual life of the vast majority of Muslims, and who's going to argue that those are bad things? Although a few use Islam to further their political goals, the vast majority of Muslims in places like Indonesia, the U.S., Turkey, etc. find their lives improved by these principles and are able to experience a spiritual union with God. These are the fruits of Muhammad that I see. Us Mormons rightly don't like it when people think our religion is bad and that the fruit is bad because of things like the Mountain Meadows Massacre or our history with racism, instead of the great benefits that come from living the Restored Gospel.

One of my favorite quotes by Joseph Smith I think is relevant to this discussion: "The Mussulman condemns the Heathen, the Jew, and the Christian, and the whole world of mankind that reject his Koran as infidels, and consigns the whole of them to perdition. The Jew believes that the whole world that reject his faith, and are not circumcised, are gentile dogs, and will be damned. The Heathen are equally as tenacious about their principles, and the Christian consigns all to perdition who cannot bow to his creed and submit to his ipse dixit. But while one portion of the human race are judging and condemning the other without mercy, the great parent of the universe looks upon the whole of the human family with a fatherly care, and paternal regard; he views them as his offspring; and without any of these contracted feelings that influence the children of men, causes "his sun to rise on the evil and the good; and sends his rain on the just and unjust." He holds the reins of judgment in his hands; he is a wise lawgiver, and will judge all men, [not according to the narrow contracted notions of men, but] "according to the deeds done in the body whether they be good or evil" or whether these deeds were done in England, America, Spain, Turkey, India: he will judge them "not according to what they have not, but according to what they have" those who have lived without law, will be judged without law, and those who have a law, will be judged by that law; we need not doubt the wisdom and intelligence of the great Jehovah, he will award judgment or mercy to all nations according to their several deserts, their means of obtaining intelligence, the laws by which they are governed; the facilities afforded them of obtaining correct information; and his inscrutable designs in relation to the human family: and when the designs of God shall be made manifest, and the curtain of futurity be withdrawn, we shall all of us eventually have to confess, that the Judge of all the earth has done right." (source: http://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/v3n12.htm)

[mapman]

4 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Would first need to know exactly what the Qur'an says. Does anyone have the verses in question?
 

I think the relevant verse is Surah 5:116: "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help."

The Quran teaches that Jesus (Isa) was one of the greatest prophets, one of the few that revealed new scriptures (the Gospels), though they believe that the Gospels have been corrupted from their original form to some extent. They believe Jesus was born miraculously of the Virgin Mary and that he will return in the end times before the day of Judgement to defeat the Antichrist (al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the "false Messiah").

[RevTestament]

Matthew 12:32

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Qur'an 5:33

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

 

I think I prefer to follow a leader of love who forgives than this Mohammed who says there is no compulsion in religion but that the penalty for denying him is crucifixion...hmm.

 

[mfbukowski]

15 hours ago, Steve Noel said:

Okay, you have a testimony about Jesus that contradicts Muhammad's testimony about Jesus. What makes your testimony true and Muhammad's false?

Nope

False dichotomy. 

Most problems in life rotate around misinterpretation misunderstanding and "half truths".  Discourse about truth is not black and white- sometimes the truth is "sideways"  

I believe that God is an individual tutor who teaches each of us personally the path we need to eventually reach Christ.

So though I disagree with Protestantism, if I was a drunk on skid row and the Salvation Army found me and led me to Christ, and I prayed about if that was the "true church" or the "right path for me", I am certain that God would give me a testimony- a direct revelation that that WAS the right path for me- at that time for that purpose.

It brought me closer to Christ and made me a Christian- even if it was a type of Christianity I now see as insufficient.  It is still one thousand percent better than being a Godless drunk on skid row.

If I am a tribesman in 700 AD living in the desert and worshiping rocks, and I hear the message that the True God can 1- communicate with man, 2- has a plan for my life and 3- teaches moral precepts that I have no understanding of, am I closer to Christ by at least believing those principles as a stepping stone to further growth?  Of course I am!  Would God tell me that that was a true path for me, in that place and that time?  I am certain he would!

Remember Mormons don't believe "once saved always saved" with this life being the only opportunity to receive Christ.

Muslims could very well possibly find the truth on the other side and still receive the rewards God has prepared for all his Children, without "penalty" if they had no opportunity to find it here.

We may move incrementally closer throughout life and not even find the "truth" until after death- and STILL get the highest reward God has for his dear children who are hungry to follow him and do his will.

This is a confusing world- with a lot of confusing messages.  We do not believe that we burn in hell because we got one black and white, true or false question correct on one ambiguous examination.  God would not do that to us.

I know personally that if I had not been an atheist for a number of years, I would have never understood the purpose of religion or what the salvation Christ gives us even means.  I absolutely NEEDED to be an atheist because of my rebellious nature- I needed to be left out in th espiritual cold without God for a while to know what it was to be without Him in my life.

So was being wrong part of my training to get it right?

Absolutely!.  And for what it's worth that idea is also the basis for our belief that the Fall of Adam was part of the plan- it allows us to make mistakes and work all this out and still have a chance to return to God.

So the answer to your question is not a black or white yes or no, not a true or false question.  In Mormonism the answer to every question is "it depends".

Anything else is too simplistic, in my opinion.

Edited May 2, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Rajah Manchou]

1 hour ago, mapman said:

I think the relevant verse is Surah 5:116: "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help."

The Quran teaches that Jesus (Isa) was one of the greatest prophets, one of the few that revealed new scriptures (the Gospels), though they believe that the Gospels have been corrupted from their original form to some extent. They believe Jesus was born miraculously of the Virgin Mary and that he will return in the end times before the day of Judgement to defeat the Antichrist (al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the "false Messiah").

So the verse says that those who say God was Christ, the son of Mary, are wrong because Christ has said to worship and give glory to God alone and no others.

I have no problem with that verse. I think I even agree with it. I don't believe God was Christ, the son of Mary.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Rajah Manchou

[mfbukowski]

59 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

So the verse says that those who say God was Christ, the son of Mary, are wrong because Christ has said to worship and give glory to God alone and no others.

I have no problem with that verse. I think I even agree with it. I don't believe God was Christ, the son of Mary.

A=A

If Christ is God, God is Christ.

The key is that "God" is to be thought of as a family name.  Father Jones, son Jones etc.  Father God, Son God.  There's much more, but no need to go there right now.

So the son gives glory to the faither - just as we honor our fathers and give them the "glory" for our accomplishments.

We would (perhaps) be nothing without our parents in those cases where our parents were not scoundrels and helped us become better human beings.

Of course Christ's father was perfect, and clearly worthy of all glory

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Steve Noel said:

Okay, on what basis do you say that these teachings are incorrect? What standard are you comparing these teachings to? He would argue that he got his doctrine by revelation from God. 

Steve, my issue with such threads and questions (be a long time member on many anti-Mormon sites) is that the goal is to first ask, then compare and direct all posters cheerfully down the garden path and drop them in a pit. There is no comparison between Mormonism and Islam; none! We do not deny Christ, his atonement or sacrifice. In fact the BoM, D&C, and according to the book, Articles of Faith (one of only two books commissioned by the Church) the Bible "which is foremost among our Standard Works" (Too paraphrase). As the purpose of the BoM is to bear withness of the Bible and Christ...but all books that are all but ignored and belittled by Islam. So if it is your intent to compare us to Islam, or demonstrate how we are like Islam; don't. This site is about our Church and it's defense. Unlike other sites where every faith has a section to compare and degrade all others next the Evangicals. Also, we are not here to belittle other Churches. "We worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men to do the same, let them worship how, where and what they may" (hope I quoted that correctly). 

[theplains]

The Liahona had some glowing words about Muhammad.

 

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as 
well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. 
Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher 
level of understanding to individuals."

Unfortunately, Muhammad's teachings darkened the minds of his followers and led them away from
Christ. He even changed some other Old Testament historical accounts.

Regards,
Jim

 

[mapman]

3 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

Steve, my issue with such threads and questions (be a long time member on many anti-Mormon sites) is that the goal is to first ask, then compare and direct all posters cheerfully down the garden path and drop them in a pit. There is no comparison between Mormonism and Islam; none! We do not deny Christ, his atonement or sacrifice. In fact the BoM, D&C, and according to the book, Articles of Faith (one of only two books commissioned by the Church) the Bible "which is foremost among our Standard Works" (Too paraphrase). As the purpose of the BoM is to bear withness of the Bible and Christ...but all books that are all but ignored and belittled by Islam. So if it is your intent to compare us to Islam, or demonstrate how we are like Islam; don't. This site is about our Church and it's defense. Unlike other sites where every faith has a section to compare and degrade all others next the Evangicals. Also, we are not here to belittle other Churches. "We worship God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men to do the same, let them worship how, where and what they may" (hope I quoted that correctly). 

I just wanted to say that I don't think it's fair to say that Muslims belittle the Bible. They believe the Quran is the only perfect book, but they would consider both the Old and New Testaments to be scriptures that have been changed somewhat over time, but still definitely holy. Muslims believe there have been many prophets, but only a few of them have revealed scriptures. They call these prophets messengers. The Islamic holy books are the Taurat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injeel (Gospels of the New Testament), and the Quran. The third article of faith of Islam is actually a belief in these holy books, which is far from belittling them.

Edited May 3, 2016 by mapman

[mapman]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

The Liahona had some glowing words about Muhammad.

 

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as 
well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. 
Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher 
level of understanding to individuals."

Unfortunately, Muhammad's teachings darkened the minds of his followers and led them away from
Christ. He even changed some other Old Testament historical accounts.

Regards,
Jim

 

The claim that Muhammad darkened the minds of his followers seems to me to be clearly false. The people that he was teaching were polytheists and idolatrous, they weren't Christians. The Arabs and other peoples that converted from paganism to Islam were clearly enlightened and brought closer to God. I would never encourage a Christian to become a Muslim, but would see it as a good thing for a pagan to do so. It's like how I would never encourage a Mormon to become a Protestant, but would see it as a good thing for a non-Christian to become a Christian. Some things are better or purer than others, but all good things come from God and he gives us what we are ready to receive.

Edited May 3, 2016 by mapman

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, mapman said:

I just wanted to say that I don't think it's fair to say that Muslims belittle the Bible. They believe the Quran is the only perfect book, but they would consider both the Old and New Testaments to be scriptures that have been changed somewhat over time, but still definitely holy. Muslims believe there have been many prophets, but only a few of them have revealed scriptures. They call these prophets messengers. The Islamic holy books are the Taurat (Torah), Zabur (Psalms), Injeel (Gospels of the New Testament), and the Quran. The third article of faith of Islam is actually a belief in these holy books, which is far from belittling them.

They believe very little in because of what they see as Jewish corruption in the Torah, and changed everything concerning Christ as incorrect. This includes Jesus Christ's birth, divinity and mission. I understand their comments about the Bible, but ban it and it's followers in almost every Nation...if they are allowed to remain they are taxed and often murdered. 

[The Nehor]

On 5/1/2016 at 5:37 PM, Steve Noel said:

Muhammad of Mecca said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and gave him revelations from God over a 23 year period. These revelations were collected and published as the Qur'an. According to these revelations Jesus was not God, nor the Son of God, but only a prophet of God. According to these revelations Jesus was not the Savior of the world. According to these revelations Jesus did not atone for the sins of the world.

On what basis do Latter-day Saints reject this alleged revelation from God through his alleged prophet Muhammad?

I have read the Quran. The God I worship is many things but he is not that dull.

[Rajah Manchou]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

A=A

If Christ is God, God is Christ.

The key is that "God" is to be thought of as a family name.  Father Jones, son Jones etc.  Father God, Son God.  There's much more, but no need to go there right now.

So the son gives glory to the faither - just as we honor our fathers and give them the "glory" for our accomplishments.

We would (perhaps) be nothing without our parents in those cases where our parents were not scoundrels and helped us become better human beings.

Of course Christ's father was perfect, and clearly worthy of all glory

A = A. but would it be accurate to say that God is Christ, the son of Mary? This has always been a turbulent issue in the church with many Christians believing that Mary was the God-bearer (Theotokos) while many others believed that to be impossible and instead referred to her as the Christ-bearer (Christotokos). The reason Islam was so tolerant towards the Church of the East was because they also did not believe that God could be the son of Mary.

I don't know which viewpoint is correct, but I don't think we should reject this verse in the Qur'an when Christians themselves can't agree. At least the Qur'an acknowledges the divine role of Jesus as the Messiah. There are other Abrahamic faiths that we hold in high regard that believe Jesus was the son of a carpenter and nothing more. That's their belief. We read their holy books in church every Sunday and accept them as scripture. No harm in that.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

A = A. but would it be accurate to say that God is Christ, the son of Mary? This has always been a turbulent issue in the church with many Christians believing that Mary was the God-bearer (Theotokos) while many others believed that to be impossible and instead referred to her as the Christ-bearer (Christotokos). The reason Islam was so tolerant towards the Church of the East was because they also did not believe that God could be the son of Mary.

I don't know which viewpoint is correct, but I don't think we should reject this verse in the Qur'an when Christians themselves can't agree. At least the Qur'an acknowledges the divine role of Jesus as the Messiah. There are other Abrahamic faiths that we hold in high regard that believe Jesus was the son of a carpenter and nothing more. That's their belief. We read their holy books in church every Sunday and accept them as scripture. No harm in that.

Frankly I don't understand the question, and think my previous post answers all there is to say on the matter.

It seems like semantics to me.

I do not accept the Qur'an as scripture by a long shot.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

A = A. but would it be accurate to say that God is Christ, the son of Mary? This has always been a turbulent issue in the church with many Christians believing that Mary was the God-bearer (Theotokos) while many others believed that to be impossible and instead referred to her as the Christ-bearer (Christotokos). The reason Islam was so tolerant towards the Church of the East was because they also did not believe that God could be the son of Mary.

I don't know which viewpoint is correct, but I don't think we should reject this verse in the Qur'an when Christians themselves can't agree. At least the Qur'an acknowledges the divine role of Jesus as the Messiah. There are other Abrahamic faiths that we hold in high regard that believe Jesus was the son of a carpenter and nothing more. That's their belief. We read their holy books in church every Sunday and accept them as scripture. No harm in that.

A little bit of a stretch as we do not use any holy books they wrote within centuries of them saying Jesus was just the son of a carpenter. Also, they then stopped producing holy books.

[Rajah Manchou]

21 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I do not accept the Qur'an as scripture by a long shot.

Fair enough, but why don't you accept it as scripture? That is what the OP is asking. What verse or chapter is in conflict with Christian doctrine(s)?

No doubt there are conflicts, but we should lay them out before we reject the Qur'an outright.

[Rajah Manchou]

56 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A little bit of a stretch as we do not use any holy books they wrote within centuries of them saying Jesus was just the son of a carpenter. Also, they then stopped producing holy books.

Just saying that Muslims have a profound reverence and respect for Jesus and his role as the Messiah. I agree with mfbukowski that the semantics about whether or not he is God, or the Son of God, or both God and the Son of God, are not so important. What is important is that the Qur'an teaches Muslims to never blaspheme against Jesus and to wait for his return. I live half the year in a Muslim country and sometimes I feel ashamed for not having as much reverence for Jesus as my Muslim friends. Here's a comment by a Muslim from a blog I just read that demonstrates this:

"It hurts me when I see Jesus (peace be upon him) being mocked on American television in shows like the simpsons, family guy, saturday night live and so many other shows. It has become so prevalent that the public has become numb to the fact that. It also makes me said that Muslims don't speak out when Jesus or Moses (or any other Prophet) is mocked on American television the way they do when Mohammed (peace be upon him) is mocked. Islam teaches us that a Muslim must accept and love all Prophets and Messengers of God. Otherwise that person would not be considered a Muslim. Is it possible that allowing God or Prophets to be shown in pictures this way is what has led to them being mocked and not seen as sacred. If we see depictions of Jesus being mocked everyday in cartoons, tv shows and movies, the respect that we have for such important people will begin to fade. I urge all my Christian friends to stand up against this attack and mockery of Jesus and The Virgin Mary in American media. How can children (or adults) hold sacred someone who they grow up seeing being mocked everyday on TV."

So I'm wondering, what verses or chapters in the Qur'an are in conflict with our beliefs? I'm sure they exist, but where are they? The closest I have found are references to Jesus being no more than a messenger, and Jesus actually not dying on the cross. But these are verses that are contested within Islam as well. Jesus was more than a messenger because the Qur'an also says he was the Messiah. Some sects within Islam believe Jesus did die on the cross. So what verses are clearly in conflict with Mormon scripture?
 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Rajah Manchou

[mfbukowski]

31 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Fair enough, but why don't you accept it as scripture? That is what the OP is asking. What verse or chapter is in conflict with Christian doctrine(s)?

No doubt there are conflicts, but we should lay them out before we reject the Qur'an outright.

I already answered that. I have no desire wasting more time on the question

[canard78]

14 hours ago, mapman said:

I totally agree with this. I think God will testify of truth wherever it is found. My spritual experiences that lead me to be a member of the church in no way invalidate the spiritual experiences of a Muslim or anyone else.

I can understand this perspective. When reading the spiritual experiences of others, you have two choices:

- Take a hard line and assume that theirs must be false witnesses given they do not align with yours 

- Accept that the truth God confirms to one person might be different to what he confirms to another. 

The implications of accepting the latter is that Mormonism is not the ultimate or "fullest" truth, but is just another place where truth is found. 

Mormonism's claim of having a "restored" "fullness of the gospel" is dependent on the same experiences as those who claim that their contradicting religious experiences are also true or only truth. 

[canard78]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have read the Quran. The God I worship is many things but he is not that dull.

Careful... If we're going to measure truth based on "least boring" then the BoM's "chloroform in print" accolade might be your undoing.