An interview with Boyd K. Packer's nephew, Lynn Packer...

JulieM · May 3, 2016

22 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Don Knotts IS THE FUNNIEST GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one of my favourite movies ever is "the Ghost and Mr. Chicken"

Ok. I seriously love that movie!! We always would rent it for slumber parties when I was a kid. We loved it!!! 😊

Duncan · May 3, 2016

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

He was best in The Private Eyes. 😂

I only saw that movie once but I remember the part where a skeleton Santa was stuck on the wall and Tim Conway's character was like, " no wonder Santa didn't come around last year", oh, good times!

Tacenda · May 3, 2016

18 hours ago, Duncan said:

For me to believe that Pres. Packer liked "Three's Company" I'd have to hear that from some other source other than one person

Found it! If you're able to...start listening at 9:50 in the 3rd podcast. I guess you can decide how believable it is.

Right after, Lynn tells about the Little Factory talk, and Lynn states that Pres. Packed was instructed to give the talk. Glad I listened again, and glad my mind is still functioning somewhat.

ALarson · May 3, 2016

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

Right after, Lynn tells about the Little Factory talk, and Lynn states that Pres. Packed was instructed to give the talk. Glad I listened again, and glad my mind is still functioning somewhat.

Did President Packer say who "instructed" him to give the talk? That must have been tough for him as that was not an easy subject matter.

I still want to listen to this podcast. I did download his book onto my Kindle and have started reading it.

Tacenda · May 3, 2016

34 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Did President Packer say who "instructed" him to give the talk? That must have been tough for him as that was not an easy subject matter.

I still want to listen to this podcast. I did download his book onto my Kindle and have started reading it.

No, Lynn didn't say who did the instructing. I downloaded it on Kindle too, free trial. Lynn said this story is in the book, I believe.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Tacenda

SeekingUnderstanding · May 3, 2016

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

No, Lynn didn't say who did the instructing. I downloaded it on Kindle too, free trial. Lynn said this story is in the book, I believe.

Towards the end of part two he says that he thinks it was Spencer Kimball, but is not certain.

Tacenda · May 3, 2016

24 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Towards the end of part two he says that he thinks it was Spencer Kimball, but is not certain.

Could have been, you're probably right, do the dates line up?

SeekingUnderstanding · May 3, 2016

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Could have been, you're probably right, do the dates line up?

It was given in Oct 1976.

Tacenda · May 4, 2016

4 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

It was given in Oct 1976.

Well then the date makes sense because that was during the time Pres. Kimball was prophet. But that was kind of a dumb question, since it was pretty obvious.

ALarson · May 4, 2016

20 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Towards the end of part two he says that he thinks it was Spencer Kimball, but is not certain.

Thanks. I'll see what he writes about this in his book too (maybe there will be more details).

USU78 · May 4, 2016

9 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Thanks. I'll see what he writes about this in his book too (maybe there will be more details).

There may not be good evidence, especially after so long, on the subject of who may have given the assignment and why. It makes a certain sense that Elder Packer, with his background in education and his long involvement with the CES, would be assigned such a topic by a SWK-led First Presidency ... on the other hand, we hear frequently that senior seventies and apostles choose their own topics. Not that it much matters from an LDS perspective: "... whether by My Own voice or the voice by My servants, it is the same."

toon · May 9, 2016

I just finished Lynn Packer's new book about Paul Dunn. He includes a number of stories about his uncle, and you can tell that he was very fond of him. Most of the stories were to explain Elder Packer's interactions with Dunn as well as his involvement in the investigation into Dunn.

(I didn't get the impression that Elder Packer's involvement was significant, but that Elder Dunn thought that he was the one behind it. According to the book, that wasn't the case, and Elder Packer respected his nephew but also wished that he wasn't conducting any investigation into Dunn.)

My brief review of the book:

1. Kindle version has too many typographical errors. Perhaps not Lynn's fault, but certainly should have been caught in the editing.

2. The evidence of something much more than embellishment is compelling, including evidence of fabricated documents as part of a cover up.

3. Packer's presentation of Dunn is almost one-dimensional. Absolutely no attempt to address where Dunn was coming from. And while Elder Dunn may have had some significant shortcomings, there's little attempt to show much positive about him. Yet here was a man who was loved by family and friends for much more than his stories.

4. Packer gets a little vindictive in some of his stories, which have little to do with Dunn. Dunn's grandson's drinking, marital problems, and eventual suicide in 2005 was unnecessary. The story about Dunn's close friend Davis was also unnecessary -- nothing about Dunn and just tarnished Davis' memory. (Dunn was very close to a flawed man, despite his flaws, which to me speaks positively of Dunn. Yet in the book, it's presented somehow as reflecting poorly on Dunn.)

The was a story in the epilogue about President Monson that I found fascinating and would be curious if there's any way to check out. Apparently in 1975, then Elder Monson gave a talk in general conference, where he allegedly extemporaneously departed from his prepared talk after seeing a young girl in the balcony. His words in the talk were:

In the balcony to my left I see a beautiful girl of perhaps ten years. Sweet little one, I do not know your name or whence you have come. This, however, I do know: the innocence of your smile and the tender expression of your eyes have persuaded me to place aside for a future time the message I had prepared for this occasion. Today, I am impressed to speak to you.

If I remember correctly from his book, however, Packer claims to have received an advance copy of Elder Monson's talk which already contained to a large extent the above quote. And the camera crew also knew in advance to immediately cut to a young blonde girl in the balcony -- something that the allegedly could only have done had theny been prepared for it in advance. The gist was that it had been planned in advance for an emotional emphasis. It's not something that bothers me, but I find it interesting and wonder if there's any way to confirm the story.

Duncan · May 10, 2016

4 hours ago, toon said:

I just finished Lynn Packer's new book about Paul Dunn. He includes a number of stories about his uncle, and you can tell that he was very fond of him. Most of the stories were to explain Elder Packer's interactions with Dunn as well as his involvement in the investigation into Dunn.

(I didn't get the impression that Elder Packer's involvement was significant, but that Elder Dunn thought that he was the one behind it. According to the book, that wasn't the case, and Elder Packer respected his nephew but also wished that he wasn't conducting any investigation into Dunn.)

My brief review of the book:

1. Kindle version has too many typographical errors. Perhaps not Lynn's fault, but certainly should have been caught in the editing.

2. The evidence of something much more than embellishment is compelling, including evidence of fabricated documents as part of a cover up.

3. Packer's presentation of Dunn is almost one-dimensional. Absolutely no attempt to address where Dunn was coming from. And while Elder Dunn may have had some significant shortcomings, there's little attempt to show much positive about him. Yet here was a man who was loved by family and friends for much more than his stories.

4. Packer gets a little vindictive in some of his stories, which have little to do with Dunn. Dunn's grandson's drinking, marital problems, and eventual suicide in 2005 was unnecessary. The story about Dunn's close friend Davis was also unnecessary -- nothing about Dunn and just tarnished Davis' memory. (Dunn was very close to a flawed man, despite his flaws, which to me speaks positively of Dunn. Yet in the book, it's presented somehow as reflecting poorly on Dunn.)

The was a story in the epilogue about President Monson that I found fascinating and would be curious if there's any way to check out. Apparently in 1975, then Elder Monson gave a talk in general conference, where he allegedly extemporaneously departed from his prepared talk after seeing a young girl in the balcony. His words in the talk were:

In the balcony to my left I see a beautiful girl of perhaps ten years. Sweet little one, I do not know your name or whence you have come. This, however, I do know: the innocence of your smile and the tender expression of your eyes have persuaded me to place aside for a future time the message I had prepared for this occasion. Today, I am impressed to speak to you.

If I remember correctly from his book, however, Packer claims to have received an advance copy of Elder Monson's talk which already contained to a large extent the above quote. And the camera crew also knew in advance to immediately cut to a young blonde girl in the balcony -- something that the allegedly could only have done had theny been prepared for it in advance. The gist was that it had been planned in advance for an emotional emphasis. It's not something that bothers me, but I find it interesting and wonder if there's any way to confirm the story.

In his talk the camera pans to a girl or a group of them anyways, but maybe the the camera guy decided to do it when Pres. Monson began talking about her? and not from some direction from Pres. Monson

ALarson · May 10, 2016

15 hours ago, toon said:

The was a story in the epilogue about President Monson that I found fascinating and would be curious if there's any way to check out. Apparently in 1975, then Elder Monson gave a talk in general conference, where he allegedly extemporaneously departed from his prepared talk after seeing a young girl in the balcony. His words in the talk were:

In the balcony to my left I see a beautiful girl of perhaps ten years. Sweet little one, I do not know your name or whence you have come. This, however, I do know: the innocence of your smile and the tender expression of your eyes have persuaded me to place aside for a future time the message I had prepared for this occasion. Today, I am impressed to speak to you.

If I remember correctly from his book, however, Packer claims to have received an advance copy of Elder Monson's talk which already contained to a large extent the above quote. And the camera crew also knew in advance to immediately cut to a young blonde girl in the balcony -- something that the allegedly could only have done had theny been prepared for it in advance. The gist was that it had been planned in advance for an emotional emphasis. It's not something that bothers me, but I find it interesting and wonder if there's any way to confirm the story.

You can watch it here (go to the 53 second mark):

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/the-faith-of-a-child?lang=eng

It was most likely planned ahead (at least to select a child from that area of the tabernacle so the camera crew knew in advance), but I don't see why that would be a big deal. it was a part of his talk and it seems to me that he did this to make it more personal to the children watching (I didn't watch his entire talk, so maybe there's something I missed?).

I am not to that part in the book yet, did Lynn Packer think this was wrong to do?

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by ALarson

toon · May 10, 2016

59 minutes ago, ALarson said:

You can watch it here (go to the 53 second mark):

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/the-faith-of-a-child?lang=eng

It was most likely planned ahead (at least to select a child from that area of the tabernacle so the camera crew knew in advance), but I don't see why that would be a big deal. it was a part of his talk and it seems to me that he did this to make it more personal to the children watching (I didn't watch his entire talk, so maybe there's something I missed?).

I am not to that part in the book yet, did Lynn Packer think this was wrong to do?

.

It appears Dunn on a number of occasions justified his "embellishments" as something that was common among general authorities. He was apparently pretty upset for being punished for doing what many others have done, especially since he believed he had the right intent. This was brought up again in the book's epilogue, and in that discussion, Packer mentions that Linda Sillitoe told him once before she passed that he should do the same kind of expose on President Monson. If I remember correctly, his response was that he wasn't interested, that he was exhausted by the Dunn story, and that he didn't want the reputation of someone who was just out to expose Church leaders. But then explaining this, he mentioned the Monson story of young girl and how he had seen the transcript in advance.

One thing I noticed about the video is the shot (unless it's somehow reversed) is of people on Elder Monson's right, looking to their left at him. Yet Elder Monson was clearly looking up to his left -- the other side of the Tabernacle. So I'm not sure what to make of the video shot. But Lynn's statement about his personal experience was more compelling.

Edited May 10, 2016 by toon

ALarson · May 10, 2016

1 hour ago, toon said:

It appears Dunn on a number of occasions justified his "embellishments" as something that was common among general authorities. He was apparently pretty upset for being punished for doing what many others have done, especially since he believed he had the right intent. This was brought up again in the book's epilogue, and in that discussion, Packer mentions that Linda Sillitoe told him once before she passed that he should do the same kind of expose on President Monson. If I remember correctly, his response was that he wasn't interested, that he was exhausted by the Dunn story, and that he didn't want the reputation of someone who was just out to expose Church leaders. But then explaining this, he mentioned the Monson story of young girl and how he had seen the transcript in advance.

Thanks for the additional information. I've heard rumors about some of the stories told by President Monson, but haven't looked into it. Iirc, Steve Benson was making a big deal about this at one time. I hope no one pursues that or tries to write a book on it. Dunn's story is interesting and seems to be well documented regarding some of his stories being false. I have no doubt that he was a good man though and it's quite sad to read about what happened to him. It's really too bad that he didn't just tell his stories as parables from the beginning rather than representing them as factual. They all taught great morals and principles.

Tacenda · May 10, 2016

2 hours ago, ALarson said:

You can watch it here (go to the 53 second mark):

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1975/10/the-faith-of-a-child?lang=eng

It was most likely planned ahead (at least to select a child from that area of the tabernacle so the camera crew knew in advance), but I don't see why that would be a big deal. it was a part of his talk and it seems to me that he did this to make it more personal to the children watching (I didn't watch his entire talk, so maybe there's something I missed?).

I am not to that part in the book yet, did Lynn Packer think this was wrong to do?

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwl628QtXak

I'm watching now. The other link didn't work. Trying to figure what the hoopla is.

bluebell · May 10, 2016

On May 3, 2016 at 8:24 PM, Duncan said:

Don Knotts IS THE FUNNIEST GUY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! one of my favourite movies ever is "the Ghost and Mr. Chicken"

This was on cable tv so I recorded it. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I'm excited to!

Tacenda · May 10, 2016

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This was on cable tv so I recorded it. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I'm excited to!

Love Don Knotts! I guess if one wants, they can watch old episodes of "The Andy Griffith Show"! Of course, I'm showing my age.

Duncan · May 10, 2016

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

This was on cable tv so I recorded it. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet but I'm excited to!

You won't be disappointed! hahaha! My son and I quote it all the time!

cinepro · May 10, 2016

4 hours ago, toon said:

It appears Dunn on a number of occasions justified his "embellishments" as something that was common among general authorities. He was apparently pretty upset for being punished for doing what many others have done, especially since he believed he had the right intent. This was brought up again in the book's epilogue, and in that discussion, Packer mentions that Linda Sillitoe told him once before she passed that he should do the same kind of expose on President Monson. If I remember correctly, his response was that he wasn't interested, that he was exhausted by the Dunn story, and that he didn't want the reputation of someone who was just out to expose Church leaders. But then explaining this, he mentioned the Monson story of young girl and how he had seen the transcript in advance.

One thing I noticed about the video is the shot (unless it's somehow reversed) is of people on Elder Monson's right, looking to their left at him. Yet Elder Monson was clearly looking up to his left -- the other side of the Tabernacle. So I'm not sure what to make of the video shot. But Lynn's statement about his personal experience was more compelling.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Dunn (after listening to Lynn Packer's interview) was his involvement in the AFCO scam (and the falsified documentation showing that he had resigned when he in fact hadn't).

Getting warm feelings and entertainment from baseball stories and war yarns really doesn't matter in the big picture. But having people bilked out of their life savings in part because a General Authority was on the board of the investment and his reputation was used to instill confidence is just terrible.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/11/12/Grant-Affleck-convicted-of-eight-counts-of-defrauding-investors/8527469083600/

Tacenda · May 10, 2016

5 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Dunn (after listening to Lynn Packer's interview) was his involvement in the AFCO scam (and the falsified documentation showing that he had resigned when he in fact hadn't).

Getting warm feelings and entertainment from baseball stories and war yarns really doesn't matter in the big picture. But having people bilked out of their life savings in part because a General Authority was on the board of the investment and his reputation was used to instill confidence is just terrible.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/11/12/Grant-Affleck-convicted-of-eight-counts-of-defrauding-investors/8527469083600/

I would agree, it's too bad this stuff is happening still, and members of the church causing the harm.

USU78 · May 10, 2016

18 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with Dunn (after listening to Lynn Packer's interview) was his involvement in the AFCO scam (and the falsified documentation showing that he had resigned when he in fact hadn't).

Getting warm feelings and entertainment from baseball stories and war yarns really doesn't matter in the big picture. But having people bilked out of their life savings in part because a General Authority was on the board of the investment and his reputation was used to instill confidence is just terrible.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1984/11/12/Grant-Affleck-convicted-of-eight-counts-of-defrauding-investors/8527469083600/

Affleck, et al., invented the HELOC in order to "unlock the power of untapped equity" in people's homes in order to fund commercial real estate and housing projects. Today every lender worth his salt gives the borrower a HELOC for nothing in order to plow right up to the edge of every chunk of dirt. Affleck went to prison. The modern lenders? Not so very much.

The Paul Dunn/AFCO scandal led to quite a bit of divestment by the Church, a substantial increase in the living stipend for the GAs, and mass resignations from corporate boards. This ended up being a good thing.

Paul died lonely, sick and largely disliked. In my view, he's had quite enough.

USU78 · May 10, 2016

Lynn was treated quite poorly by yBu and KSLTV back when, and at a time when his wife was gravely ill. He was left without a job and without health coverage. Bureaucrats and sycophants made his life pretty miserable for a while there.

If he's bitter, he earned the right.

JulieM · May 10, 2016

52 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Lynn was treated quite poorly by yBu and KSLTV back when, and at a time when his wife was gravely ill. He was left without a job and without health coverage. Bureaucrats and sycophants made his life pretty miserable for a while there.

If he's bitter, he earned the right.

This is sad. Was it over him writing this book or doing research for it?

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