So what's with the refugees?

[Deborah]

Since this is a worldwide church, many members are faced directly with the refugee crisis. The church itself sends aid to the refugee camps and asks members to individually do what they can when they have those who need help within their reach. They haven't said we should bring them all here but those with whom we do come in contact should be helped.

[Danzo]

3 hours ago, BCSpace said:

But they're not.  Refugees and immigrants haven't really been vetted since around 1964. Prior to that, our nation was highly selective, turning away the infected, the uneducated, those without any skills, or those with criminal backgrounds. Something that the Left won't tell you when they trot out the "nation was built on immigration" mantra.

Actually, historically the US didn't restrict immigration until the last 1870's. Starting with the anti Chinese acts.  Immigration quotas are a fairly new thing. 

 

 

 

 

[CMZ]

I don't get why people have such a hard time with this issue. Everybody seems to make it into a false dichotomy. They force it to be either:

1. We love everyone; therefore, we let everyone into the country with no scrutiny whatsoever; or:
2. Outsiders are not to be trusted; we should keep them out.

But the reality is that America should be welcoming but that we still need to scrutinize individuals coming in. Otherwise we end up with things like the Paris bombings where the perps were likely terrorists pretending to be Syrian refugees. Lack of all scrutiny whatsoever does not somehow equal love and compassion, and nobody need labor under the delusion that it does.

[Duncan]

Just now, CMZ said:

I don't get why people have such a hard time with this issue. Everybody seems to make it into a false dichotomy. They force it to be either:

1. We love everyone; therefore, we let everyone into the country with no scrutiny whatsoever; or:
2. Outsiders are not to be trusted; we should keep them out.

But the reality is that America should be welcoming but that we still need to scrutinize individuals coming in. Otherwise we end up with things like the Paris bombings where the perps were likely terrorists pretending to be Syrian refugees. Lack of all scrutiny whatsoever does not somehow equal love and compassion, and nobody need labor under the delusion that it does.

thing is too at least here in Canada the refugees have been scrutinized and scrutinized so I don't see any problems. I am not worried about them but I am worried about the idiots we have already here harassing them. As it is there is a Priest in Ontario -I think, who stole thousands of dollars earmarked to help them. Our part in this whole thing is to help, people who work in immigration do their part. 

just a question though how do you interpret the parable of the Samaritan? did the Samaritan check the guy for weapons first before he helped him?  

[BCSpace]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

Actually, historically the US didn't restrict immigration until the last 1870's. Starting with the anti Chinese acts.  Immigration quotas are a fairly new thing. 

 

And thus the nation was built.  That's quite a long time during the industrial revolution. Thus I don't take stock in your "fairly new" minimization/deflection.

[CMZ]

17 minutes ago, Duncan said:

thing is too at least here in Canada the refugees have been scrutinized and scrutinized so I don't see any problems. I am not worried about them but I am worried about the idiots we have already here harassing them. As it is there is a Priest in Ontario -I think, who stole thousands of dollars earmarked to help them. Our part in this whole thing is to help, people who work in immigration do their part. 

just a question though how do you interpret the parable of the Samaritan? did the Samaritan check the guy for weapons first before he helped him?  

That's all fine. I don't have any argument with you. I'm just saying people (this includes just about everyone) need to realize that they need to get out of their false dichotomy that most people seem to be stuck in (e.g., "Do we keep everyone out or do we let everyone in without any scrutiny?"). As far as the Good Samaritan thing goes I'm too hungry right now to get into it but am thinking of the statement right now to the effect of being as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Focusing on either course and ignoring the other one is not a good idea.

Edited April 4, 2016 by CMZ

[Duncan]

Just now, CMZ said:

That's all fine. I don't have any argument with you. I'm just saying people (this includes just about everyone) need to realize that they need to get out of their false dichotomy that most people seem to be stuck in (e.g., "Do we keep everyone out or do we let everyone in without any scrutiny?"). As far as the Good Samaritan thing goes I'm too hungry right now to get into it but am thinking of the statement right now to the effect of being as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. Focusing on either course and ignoring the other one is not a good idea.

fair enough! hhhaha!

[salgare]

why doesn't the Church coffers cough up some money for this instead of putting it on the backs of the members?  Sure the church (members) do much good in the world.  The multi-billion dollar land/building investment company --- the Church sole corp, not so much.

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, salgare said:

why doesn't the Church coffers cough up some money for this instead of putting it on the backs of the members?  Sure the church (members) do much good in the world.  The multi-billion dollar land/building investment company --- the Church sole corp, not so much.

It gives us the choice to be charitable and generous. The Church "coughing up some money" would not result in individual sacrifice, blessings, and the intense satisfaction of helping someone else.

 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Mosiah 4: 28?? .And that we and all immigrants obey the laws of our country.

No comprendo. All I want is that.........we follow the admonition of Mosiah 4 and that we and all immigrants obey the laws of our country. Specifically, immigration law.

[salgare]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

It gives us the choice to be charitable and generous. The Church "coughing up some money" would not result in individual sacrifice, blessings, and the intense satisfaction of helping someone else.

 

10% of your income, pay expenses for yours and others missionaries, pay fast offerings for your ward members etc. etc. etc.

Yep lets make sure and give you some good choices!

 

[Bernard Gui]

44 minutes ago, salgare said:

10% of your income, pay expenses for yours and others missionaries, pay fast offerings for your ward members etc. etc. etc.

Yep lets make sure and give you some good choices!

 

None of what I have is mine. It is all a gift from God. I wish I were able to give more. I'm not sure what you are saying.

[salgare]

21 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

None of what I have is mine. It is all a gift from God. I wish I were able to give more. I'm not sure what you are saying.

I'm suggesting you have already sacrificed more than God demands.  I'm suggesting all along the Church takes the credit for Humanitarian Aid, which is all pushed on the backs of the members, whom they have convinced have not given enough ... even to the point of wishing they could sacrifice more.

[Okrahomer]

1 minute ago, salgare said:

I'm suggesting you have already sacrificed more than God demands.

Who or what gives you the right to make this judgement for anyone but yourself?

[salgare]

13 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Who or what gives you the right to make this judgement for anyone but yourself?

"I'm suggesting" maybe you missed that part?

[Okrahomer]

Sorry.  Who or what gave you the right to suggest it?  

[salgare]

13 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Sorry.  Who or what gave you the right to suggest it?  

wow

[Danzo]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

No comprendo. All I want is that.........we follow the admonition of Mosiah 4 and that we and all immigrants obey the laws of our country. Specifically, immigration law.

The problem is that immigration law is fairly hard to obey.  The more I study it, the more it seems like it was designed specifically so it wouldn't be obeyed.

[Okrahomer]

16 minutes ago, salgare said:

wow

Yikes!!  One word responses usually reflect high praise or extreme disdain.  I have a feeling it was the latter.  In that case, I will withdraw with apologies.

[salgare]

12 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Yikes!!  One word responses usually reflect high praise or extreme disdain.  I have a feeling it was the latter.  In that case, I will withdraw with apologies.

Its a discussion board Okra, where people express their opinions, feelings etc.  You are asking me what gives me the right to do that ... I could not think of another reply besides shock and surprise.

[Okrahomer]

1 minute ago, salgare said:

Its a discussion board Okra, where people express their opinions, feelings etc.  You are asking me what gives me the right to do that ... I could not think of another reply besides shock and surprise.

I get it, and I apologize.  Sometimes I'm not the sharpest tool in the tool shed.  It just hit me wrong.. All the best to you.

[salgare]

Just now, Okrahomer said:

I get it, and I apologize.  Sometimes I'm not the sharpest tool in the tool shed.  It just hit me wrong.. All the best to you.

np, and thanks for the willingness to apologize and communicate.

[Deborah]

13 hours ago, salgare said:

10% of your income, pay expenses for yours and others missionaries, pay fast offerings for your ward members etc. etc. etc.

Yep lets make sure and give you some good choices!

 

You do realize there is also a humanitarian fund members can contribute to.  Also the church is sending a lot of money and other aid for the refugees. I'm not sure what your complaint is. Members are asked to do what they are able.

[jana at jade house]

Some of us actually have a monthly gift going to LDS philanthropies.  They do stuff that we can't.  It is all how you view your stewardship of the blessing we are to administer.