VideoGameJunkie Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Just watched Jeffrey Holland do the YSA face to face and the last question was about same sex attraction, and Elder Holland said he wishes people would talk less about the attraction and more about chastity. He kept repeating chastity is the issue as it is with heterosexual singles. It was a great session. 2
JLHPROF Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Just watched Jeffrey Holland do the YSA face to face and the last question was about same sex attraction, and Elder Holland said he wishes people would talk less about the attraction and more about chastity. He kept repeating chastity is the issue as it is with heterosexual singles. It was a great session. Chastity is the issue with everyone, single or married, homosexual or heterosexual. Chastity is always the issue.
Popular Post Duncan Posted March 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 9, 2016 except heterosexuals can date, get married, have sex without getting exed and homosexuals can't do any of that without church discipine-God said it's not good that man be alone and probably for good reason 9
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 Holland also started the face 2 face off by quoting Jerry Maguire. It was just funny to hear an apostle quote a rated R movie. 4
Popular Post sunstoned Posted March 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) This is not about chastity. Not even close. Children who's heterosexuals parents are unmarried and living together can be baptized. The parents are not classified as apostates. No so with the gay couple or their children. Big difference. This is about judgement and exclusion. Edited March 9, 2016 by sunstoned 11
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 30 minutes ago, Duncan said: God said it's not good that man be alone and probably for good reason In the exact same chapter, God also said that a man should leave his father and mother and cleave unto a wife ... probably for good reason. 3
Duncan Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Just now, Hamba Tuhan said: In the exact same chapter, God also said that a man should leave his father and mother and cleave unto a wife ... probably for good reason. that's true but why don't gay people get to cleave as well? in the range of world problems homosexuality is even on the list? 4
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 Another thing Holland mentioned was that more women than men join the church, go to the temple, and more women are staying in the church than men.
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 11 minutes ago, sunstoned said: This is not about chastity. Not even close. Children who's heterosexuals parents are unmarried and living together can be baptized. The parents are not classified as apostates. No so with the gay couple or their children. Big difference. This is about judgement and exclusion. Holland said it was all about chastity.
Popular Post JulieM Posted March 9, 2016 Popular Post Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Holland said it was all about chastity. Well, the law of chastity states to keep sexual relations within a "legally and lawfully" bound marriage, correct? Why doesn't this apply equally to gays who are married? I have read on here that some interpret this to mean "laws of God" (lawfully), but is that doctrine? And what about the "legally" part? Certainly this applies to gays who are married now. Or is there a different Law of Chastity for gays to obey? Edited March 9, 2016 by JulieM 5
VideoGameJunkie Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JulieM said: Well, the law of chastity states to keep sexual relations within a "legally and lawfully" bound marriage, correct? Why doesn't this apply equally to gays who are married? I have read on here that some interpret this to mean "laws of God" (lawfully), but is that doctrine? And what about the "legally" part? Certainly this applies to gays who are married now. Or is there a different Law of Chastity for gays to obey? Gays have to either wait to marryou someone of the opposite gender or remain celibate their whole life. Edited March 9, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie
JulieM Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: Gays have to either wait to marry a girl or remain celibate their whole life. So, they do have a different Law of Chastity to follow? (Not that they should keep sexual relations within a marriage?) I imagine it will be said that SSM are legal, but not lawful. Edited March 9, 2016 by JulieM
Wanderer7 Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Well did Isaiah say of this generation "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20) The church's stance has not changed on homosexuality or chastity. The philosophies of men have blinded the eyes of much of the world and even church members to convince them that people with same-gender attraction are persecuted so badly that we should give a "get out of jail free" card to people are "men... burned in their lust one toward another" (Rom 1:27). I have plenty of my own struggles with the flesh, and yet I'm expected to live worthy of a temple recommend, the same as any straight or homosexual person. The standard is clear. Using red herrings like "the church is practicing exclusion" or "punishing the children for the sins of their parents" is just trying to sweep sin under the rug. But one day it will all be made manifest and read from the housetops. Edited March 9, 2016 by Wanderer7 2
Duncan Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Wanderer7 said: Well did Isaiah say of this generation "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter" (Isaiah 5:20) The church's stance has not changed on homosexuality or chastity. The philosophies of men have blinded the eyes of much of the world and even church members to convince them that people with same-gender attraction are persecuted so badly that we should give a "get out of jail free" card to people who want to "men... burned in their lust one toward another" (Rom 1:27). I have plenty of my own struggles with the flesh, and yet I'm expected to live worthy of a temple recommend, the same as any straight or homosexual person. The standard is clear. Using red herrings like "the church is practicing exclusion" or "punishing the children for the sins of their parents" is just trying to sweep sin under the rug. But one day it will all be made manifest and read from the housetops. what do you think is the purpose of homosexuality is? it has to serve something good because all good from God does it not? 1
Robert F. Smith Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Duncan said: that's true but why don't gay people get to cleave as well? in the range of world problems homosexuality is even on the list? They can and do, at least in free countries. That is their right in America, and in most other civilized countries. After their deaths, it becomes another story, and I believe that they will be made whole. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 53 minutes ago, Duncan said: what do you think is the purpose of homosexuality is? it has to serve something good because all good from God does it not? Maybe you would like to talk to Jesus about that, just as his disciples asked him about the blind man from birth: Quote Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. (John 9:2-3). All humans are born with some genetic defects, most of which do not cause major difficulties or attract attention. Some major problems also occur in utero, as with the results of zika virus infections. God did not cause them. They are artifacts of the Telestial World we temporarily find ourselves in. We will be rid of those problems with immortality. 2
mtomm Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 10 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Maybe you would like to talk to Jesus about that, just as his disciples asked him about the blind man from birth: All humans are born with some genetic defects, most of which do not cause major difficulties or attract attention. Some major problems also occur in utero, as with the results of zika virus infections. God did not cause them. They are artifacts of the Telestial World we temporarily find ourselves in. We will be rid of those problems with immortality. Sincere question: Do we know that homosexuality is caused by major problems in utero? Is there a chance that it's a normal variation in human sexuality? 2
The Nehor Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 3 hours ago, Duncan said: except heterosexuals can date, get married, have sex without getting exed and homosexuals can't do any of that without church discipine-God said it's not good that man be alone and probably for good reason As someone who is alone I can testify that there is a good reason. I have been single all this time and look at what has happened to me. Do not look for an extended period..... "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze unto thee." 1
Monster Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 Its about control. When the church loses control over the sexual habits of its believers it has lost much of its leverage. 1
Wanderer7 Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, Duncan said: what do you think is the purpose of homosexuality is? it has to serve something good because all good from God does it not? Robert F. Smith gave a pretty good answer to this. I remember back when President Packer said something to the same effect. People in and out of the church were enraged to the point I was afraid he would be tarred and feathered. But they hold a double standard. On the one hand, homosexuals are considered a protected minority and on the other hand to state they are different in any way is a hate crime. I also find it strange that straight people have to endure to the end and keep the commandments no matter the difficulty, but some people would excuse those with same gender attraction in breaking the most sacred of commandments because their burdens are too difficult to bear. I don't mean to make light of the struggles they face. However, I would find it hard to explain why it justified breaking the law of chastity to Him who "descended below all things" and yet remained sinless. Edited March 9, 2016 by Wanderer7 2
Duncan Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Maybe you would like to talk to Jesus about that, just as his disciples asked him about the blind man from birth: All humans are born with some genetic defects, most of which do not cause major difficulties or attract attention. Some major problems also occur in utero, as with the results of zika virus infections. God did not cause them. They are artifacts of the Telestial World we temporarily find ourselves in. We will be rid of those problems with immortality. See, you make sense to me! Thank you! I'm quite sure if Jesus spoke to me he'd do all the talking! hahahha! "what's with this slight KFC addiction?"
Wanderer7 Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) I would also add that because I am sure same gender attraction is a difficult cross to bear, I admire anyone who can do so sinlessly. Surely their glory will exceed that of most. Further, I am not trying to condemn one who does yield to such impulses beyond that of anyone else. Living in a mortal world means we will all give in to one temptation or another. Repentance applies to everyone, and Christ's compassion is infinite and universal. However, I reiterate that this does not mean we are excused in our sins, or that the church should change its standards to meet those of the world because our temptations are difficult. Edited March 9, 2016 by Wanderer7 4
Duncan Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: As someone who is alone I can testify that there is a good reason. I have been single all this time and look at what has happened to me. Do not look for an extended period..... "And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze unto thee." I'm in the same boat friend! I was married years ago and have a 13 yr old son but LDS women here my age............well there is one who is supposedly dying but has been so for 10 years now and the other is really mean 1
Robert F. Smith Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 6 hours ago, mtomm said: Sincere question: Do we know that homosexuality is caused by major problems in utero? Is there a chance that it's a normal variation in human sexuality? I think that it can be caused by both. We already know that human gender varies across the hormonal and physiological spectrum, some of which may be based on genetic defects, and some based on developmental problems in utero. Some defects can be corrected surgically, as for gender reassignment surgery, either early or late -- sometimes called for in cases of hermaphroditism. In other cases, bisexual and homosexual behavior may be learned -- during or as the result of trauma, or via simple exploration -- and become habitual. 1
JLHPROF Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 8 hours ago, Duncan said: what do you think is the purpose of homosexuality is? it has to serve something good because all good from God does it not? It has no purpose. It is an inborn weakness to be overcome like any other. The problem is we have made it one that is societally acceptable to embrace.
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