danielwoods Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, PeterPear said: So then why did Jesus preach in the Temple and cleanse it from the money-changers and call it his Father's house. Why did Peter preach in the Temple as well as Paul. Why does Corinthians 13 refer to baptism for the dead. At that time the holy of holies still contained God's presence because Jesus hadn't atoned for our sin yet. So, he called it "my house" and "my Father's house." Now God dwells inside us, we are God's temple as believers. Peter was jewish and went to the Temple, "as was his custom". The reference to baptism for the dead was a reference to a practice of some in that culture. Baptism for the dead isn't taught or instructed in the NT. Edited February 4, 2016 by danielwoods
danielwoods Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 14 hours ago, Zakuska said: For a God who doesn't need or dwell in temples... he sure dwells in a lot of temples. Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died, I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. God's throne isn't in a temple built by man.
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, danielwoods said: God's throne isn't in a temple built by man. Of course not. But Malachi tells us that the Lord will return to his temple. Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. For someone who doesn't want temples he certainly seems to have a big plan concerning one.
Jeanne Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 On 2/2/2016 at 9:56 PM, JLHPROF said: Nah. Paul was speaking to idol worshippers. Scripture is full of examples of God wanting temples and commanding us to build them. Does he NEED them? Not personally, given where he dwells, but we do. And God's desire is to lead us back to him and the temple is a tool for teaching the way back. If God doesn't need them..why spend so much on them? Temples can be Temples of beauty without all the expense. If they are built to glorify...it seems unnecessary to make it so elaborate..the beauty should be in your ceremonies. A chapel is a House of the Lord and we were taught this is God's house. Respect is a constant thing of course..but Temples built to glorify and humble God is contradicdtory (IMO) to what God requires.
Glenn101 Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, Jeanne said: If God doesn't need them..why spend so much on them? Temples can be Temples of beauty without all the expense. If they are built to glorify...it seems unnecessary to make it so elaborate..the beauty should be in your ceremonies. A chapel is a House of the Lord and we were taught this is God's house. Respect is a constant thing of course..but Temples built to glorify and humble God is contradicdtory (IMO) to what God requires. Hi Jeanne. Maybe you could go back and read of the building of the Tabernacle in the Old Testament and the building of the first temple by Solomon. There is a precedent there. Actually, our modern day temples are much less ornate and relatively much less expensive. God gave the pattern and requirements for those two edifices. Glenn
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 19 minutes ago, Jeanne said: If God doesn't need them..why spend so much on them? Temples can be Temples of beauty without all the expense. If they are built to glorify...it seems unnecessary to make it so elaborate..the beauty should be in your ceremonies. A chapel is a House of the Lord and we were taught this is God's house. Respect is a constant thing of course..but Temples built to glorify and humble God is contradicdtory (IMO) to what God requires. This has been addressed repeatedly. The scriptural principles are clear on this.
danielwoods Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 59 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Of course not. But Malachi tells us that the Lord will return to his temple. Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. For someone who doesn't want temples he certainly seems to have a big plan concerning one. Jewish context, jewish temple. This could be a reference to when Jesus came the first time (a messenger prepared the way... John) or it could be a reference to his second coming. Either way the context is jewish.
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, danielwoods said: Jewish context, jewish temple. This could be a reference to when Jesus came the first time (a messenger prepared the way... John) or it could be a reference to his second coming. Either way the context is jewish. Irrelevant to the principle. God uses temples and temple substitutes (like mountaintops). Always has since Adam built the first altar. Since Moses was told Mt. Sinai was sacred ground. Since Christ called the temple his Father's house. Temples are something God wants and uses.
Jeanne Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 53 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: Hi Jeanne. Maybe you could go back and read of the building of the Tabernacle in the Old Testament and the building of the first temple by Solomon. There is a precedent there. Actually, our modern day temples are much less ornate and relatively much less expensive. God gave the pattern and requirements for those two edifices. Glenn You are right..I am sorry...I should not respond to threads when I am not completely familiar with the Old Testament and although I did study in days past, there are things that I can't remember. Also..I didn't read the whole thread..forgive me. In any case, other than baptisms and sealings to family..I have never been inside of a Temple. My Temple is nature and a community of love. Hugs..Jeanne
danielwoods Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Irrelevant to the principle. God uses temples and temple substitutes (like mountaintops). Always has since Adam built the first altar. Since Moses was told Mt. Sinai was sacred ground. Since Christ called the temple his Father's house. Temples are something God wants and uses. Right. And now God dwells in the temples called our bodies, "God with us." As Paul stated God doesn't dwell in buildings made by man.
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 4, 2016 Author Posted February 4, 2016 I've always been confused on this. Does House of the Lord mean Jesus or Heavenly Father? 1
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 1 minute ago, VideoGameJunkie said: I've always been confused on this. Does House of the Lord mean Jesus or Heavenly Father? Now THAT is one of your more interesting questions. Christ referred to the temple as his Fathers house. When we speak of our Lord we usually mean Christ. The OT speaks of the House of the Lord God (Jehovah). D&C identifies The Lord AND Christ as commanding us to build a house of God. All that belongs to the Father will be given to the Son as his inheritance, but that final inheritance has yet to be bestowed. So which is it? Is it the House of God or the House of the Lord? Remembering that the Temple is representative of a creation, to whom does our creation belong - the Father or the Son?
theplains Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 On 03/02/2016 at 9:41 PM, JLHPROF said: NT No such scripture exists, because there is no reason for it to exist. The people in the NT already had a temple. It had already been built by commandment. Check out what Christ said about it, how much time he spent there, and how God honored it/ D&C D&C 88:119 Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing; and establish a house, even a house of prayer, a house of fasting, a house of faith, a house of learning, a house of glory, a house of order, a house of God; Don't forget what the scriptures say about temples. Christ called it his house. In your comment about NT - since you believe there is no reason for a physical temple to exist, then God did not command Christians to build temples. Your comment about D&C makes no reference to a temple. The early Christians met in that temple and their homes. They did not venture out to to Spain or Italy to build temples there. Christ calling it his house does not mean that we should build temples around the world either. He was in the OT/NT transition period. We don't need earthly priests to approach God. This is the meaning of the temple veil being torn. Eventually, the temple was destroyed in 70 AD and the apostles never said to build another. The New Testament is clear that humans are now the temple. Thanks, Jim
JLHPROF Posted February 4, 2016 Posted February 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, theplains said: In your comment about NT - since you believe there is no reason for a physical temple to exist, then God did not command Christians to build temples. No, my comment said there is no reason for a scripture commanding a temple to exist. They already had a physical temple. And having personally experienced a temple of God on numerous occasions, that is all the proof I will ever need as to their purpose and God's approval. There isn't a scripture on earth that could convince me otherwise.
RevTestament Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 On 2/4/2016 at 9:37 PM, The Nehor said: I think it was more a commentary of that sacred place no longer being sacred. God was profaning his own house because it was no longer his. I disagree. The veil was ripped because Jesus showed the way into the holy of Holies - not because it was profaned. Now followers could "see" inside through the secretive veil. 1
JLHPROF Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, RevTestament said: I disagree. The veil was ripped because Jesus showed the way into the holy of Holies - not because it was profaned. Now followers could "see" inside through the secretive veil. The veil was rent because the barrier of mortality between God and Man was removed.
RevTestament Posted February 5, 2016 Posted February 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: The veil was rent because the barrier of mortality between God and Man was removed. Hebrews 9:8 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 6, 2016 Author Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) What is being referred to by these verses? It says the Lord's throne is in heaven and the earth His footstool. And that His hands built all things. Acts 7: 44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. 45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things? 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Edited February 6, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie
The Nehor Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 9 hours ago, RevTestament said: I disagree. The veil was ripped because Jesus showed the way into the holy of Holies - not because it was profaned. Now followers could "see" inside through the secretive veil. I do not disagree there. I think Jesus did open to some of his followers the secrets that were kept in the Holy of Holies or at least were supposed to be. Then the early Christians lost them. Luckily Joseph Smith came along and restored them. 1
RevTestament Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 11 hours ago, The Nehor said: I do not disagree there. I think Jesus did open to some of his followers the secrets that were kept in the Holy of Holies or at least were supposed to be. Then the early Christians lost them. Luckily Joseph Smith came along and restored them.
theplains Posted February 6, 2016 Posted February 6, 2016 On 04/02/2016 at 4:05 PM, JLHPROF said: No, my comment said there is no reason for a scripture commanding a temple to exist. They already had a physical temple. And having personally experienced a temple of God on numerous occasions, that is all the proof I will ever need as to their purpose and God's approval. There isn't a scripture on earth that could convince me otherwise. The New Testament Christians were only meeting sometimes in the temple but no ordinances were being performed there. As the temple was destroyed later on, a new physical one was never their concern as they learned to realize they were the new temple where God would dwell. Hebrews 9:6 to Hebrews 10:20. This explains the tearing of the temple veil and why people do not need LDS priests or temples. Thanks, Jim
danielwoods Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 On February 6, 2016 at 7:39 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: What is being referred to by these verses? It says the Lord's throne is in heaven and the earth His footstool. And that His hands built all things. Acts 7: 44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed, speaking unto Moses, that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen. 45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David; 46 Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things? 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. What is difficult to understand here: 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
mfbukowski Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 27 minutes ago, danielwoods said: What is difficult to understand here: 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Uh, we don't believe God comes and takes a nap in the temples It is the "House of the Lord" figuratively. It is a building dedicated to the Lord and so it is "His" edifice This comment has no relevance to what we actually believe. What's difficult to understand about that? Temples are places of instruction. 1
mfbukowski Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 On 2/4/2016 at 8:08 AM, danielwoods said: God's throne isn't in a temple built by man. In fact then it is not even a "throne" He hardly needs chairs or tables does he? So what is your point? This is clearly metaphorical. Your reply is confusing in that context. You think he has a real tangible chair "throne" he sits in?? "Where" then IS his throne? Can you give me the coordinates? It seems you are saying he HAS a throne, it is just not in a temple. Very confusing
mfbukowski Posted February 8, 2016 Posted February 8, 2016 Nobody lives in a "Wardhouse" either nor in a "Stakehouse". And what of the fact that God is said to "Dwell" in our hearts? Or that our bodies are "temples"? There are many kinds of "temples". We are temples, we have temples, and even the side of my head is called a "temple". There are other religions that have "temples" as well. So what does the fact that "God dwells within in us" AND that "we are temples" have to do with other kinds of temples? No God does not need a day off to kick back in his easy chair in a temple, but guess what? No one believes that anyway So what is the point of this thread??
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