God doesn't need or dwell in temples?

[mfbukowski]

On 2/2/2016 at 8:46 PM, VideoGameJunkie said:

Acts 17: 24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord in heaven and earth, dwelleth  not in temples made with hands, neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.

 

Seems God doesn't need temples or doesn't dwell in temples since all temples are made with hands.

No, all temples are not made with hands

That is the first wrong assumption.  Were YOU made with hands?

[VideoGameJunkie]

23 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

In fact then it is not even a "throne"

He hardly needs chairs or tables does he?  So what is your point?

This is clearly metaphorical.  Your reply is confusing in that context.  You think he has a real tangible chair "throne" he sits in??

"Where" then IS his throne?  Can you give me the coordinates?

It seems you are saying he HAS a throne, it is just not in a temple.  Very confusing

Well technically in D&C 137 and Revelation Joseph Smith and John see God sitting on a throne.

[VideoGameJunkie]

12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No, all temples are not made with hands

That is the first wrong assumption.  Were YOU made with hands?

Well I was a test tube baby so yes.

[mfbukowski]

30 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Well technically in D&C 137 and Revelation Joseph Smith and John see God sitting on a throne.

I believe that God shows us things in metaphors, even visions

It would be useless to show us things we could never understand so he shows us a "movie" that will make sense to our little brains.

I don't think he actually uses a chair even in heaven.  Why would he need one?

Quote

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Daniel 7:9

And all these Evangelicals are arguing that yes, he has a "throne" but it is not in a temple

If he has a "throne" then he also must have a body

[VideoGameJunkie]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

I believe that God shows us things in metaphors, even visions

It would be useless to show us things we could never understand so he shows us a "movie" that will make sense to our little brains.

I don't think he actually uses a chair even in heaven.  Why would he need one?

Daniel 7:9

And all these Evangelicals are arguing that yes, he has a "throne" but it is not in a temple

If he has a "throne" then he also must have a body

Ah that makes sense,  because I always wondered why people would need a throne chair to sit on in heaven with exaltation. I doubt there will be any need to sit down with eternal energy in the resurrected body and legs.

[mfbukowski]

You know what is really weird is all these bible quotes showing that God does not dwell in temples made of hands

Guess what?  We believe in the bible.

That means God does not dwell in temples made with hands.

So what was the question?  Very strange thread

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Ah that makes sense,  because I always wondered why people would need a throne chair to sit on in heaven with exaltation. I doubt there will be any need to sit down with eternal energy in the resurrected body and legs.

Exactly!!

[VideoGameJunkie]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Nobody lives in a "Wardhouse" either nor in a "Stakehouse".

And what of the fact that God is said to "Dwell" in our hearts?  Or that our bodies are "temples"?

There are many kinds of "temples".  We are temples, we have temples, and even the side of my head is called a "temple".  There are other religions that have "temples" as well.

So what does the fact that "God dwells within in us" AND that "we are temples" have to do with other kinds of temples?

No God does not need a day off to kick back in his easy chair in a temple, but guess what?  No one believes that anyway

So what is the point of this thread??

I will also mention I know someone who's been in a wheelchair for a long time and will be for the rest of their life, and want nothing more than to be free from a seat when they get to heaven, and to freely move around and explore the eternities, and I'm sure sitting on a chair/throne is not his idea of heaven, after having to be sitting in a chair now in his idea of hell.

[JLHPROF]

12 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I will also mention I know someone who's been in a wheelchair for a long time and will be for the rest of their life, and want nothing more than to be free from a seat when they get to heaven, and to freely move around and explore the eternities, and I'm sure sitting on a chair/throne is not his idea of heaven, after having to be sitting in a chair now in his idea of hell.

Your obsession over the throne issue is odd.
So what if God's throne is literal or figurative.  So what if our potential future thrones are literal or figurative.
I'm really not sure what difference it makes.

[VideoGameJunkie]

22 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Your obsession over the throne issue is odd.
So what if God's throne is literal or figurative.  So what if our potential future thrones are literal or figurative.
I'm really not sure what difference it makes.

It seems to make heaven limiting to me. I'm really fascinated wondering how heaven will work logistically for some reason. Also my best friend obsesses and always tells me about the show Game of Thrones so maybe it got in my head. Don't worry I don't watch the show because of its content.

Edited February 8, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

It seems to make heaven limiting to me. I'm really fascinated wondering how heaven will work logistically for some reason.

I think we're all fascinated with what heaven will be like and how our lives there will work.
I just don't see what difference the presence of a chair or lack of a chair will make.
It's about as important as whether the pearly gates swing inwards or outwards.

[danielwoods]

More information from the Bible about the Throne of God.

 

Rev. 4

2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits[a] of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throneand who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
    to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created
    and have their being.”

 

 

 

Rev. 20: 11" Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had doneas recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Rev. 21:

5 "He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

[VideoGameJunkie]

57 minutes ago, danielwoods said:

More information from the Bible about the Throne of God.

 

Rev. 4

2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne.4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits[a] of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.

In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“‘Holy, holy, holy

is the Lord God Almighty,’[b]

who was, and is, and is to come.”

9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throneand who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:

11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
    to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created
    and have their being.”

 

 

 

Rev. 20: 11" Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had doneas recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

Rev. 21:

5 "He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Ya Revelation makes it sound like symbolic though since I doubt there are really beats with multiple eyes hanging out. That would be weird.

[danielwoods]

1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Ya Revelation makes it sound like symbolic though since I doubt there are really beats with multiple eyes hanging out. That would be weird.

It's not written like it's symbolic. John is describing what he is seeing as per his instruction to write what he sees. Rev. 1:9 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."

 

I agree it is weird. However, so is the teaching that the first will be last and the last will be first. That the greatest among you is the servant of all. It could be that the beasts with eyes all around symbolize God's all seeing awareness - Foresight/Hindsight, and Insight. 

[VideoGameJunkie]

27 minutes ago, danielwoods said:

It's not written like it's symbolic. John is describing what he is seeing as per his instruction to write what he sees. Rev. 1:9 “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."

 

I agree it is weird. However, so is the teaching that the first will be last and the last will be first. That the greatest among you is the servant of all. It could be that the beasts with eyes all around symbolize God's all seeing awareness - Foresight/Hindsight, and Insight. 

Right, but it just seems odd that we're taught throughout life to not be materialistic and then we have scripture of heaven describing streets paved with gold, gold crowns on people's heads, and rubys and jasper surrounding heaven. I guess heaven is supposed to look fancy, but it just seems odd that it's so proudly displayed in heaven, and we're considered greedy and materialistic if we are fascinated with that stuff in mortality. That's what I'm mainly getting at. I don't like materialism.

[JLHPROF]

18 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Right, but it just seems odd that we're taught throughout life to not be materialistic and then we have scripture of heaven describing streets paved with gold, gold crowns on people's heads, and rubys and jasper surrounding heaven. I guess heaven is supposed to look fancy, but it just seems odd that it's so proudly displayed in heaven, and we're considered greedy and materialistic if we are fascinated with that stuff in mortality. That's what I'm mainly getting at. I don't like materialism.

Do you really think that's gold as you think of it?  Gold as we have it on earth is a mortal element.
If there is any actual gold in heaven it will be eternal and purified in nature, whether from a resurrected planet or some other eternal source.
And it won't be because of its monetary value that it would be used.

Materialism doesn't even enter into it.

[VideoGameJunkie]

50 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Do you really think that's gold as you think of it?  Gold as we have it on earth is a mortal element.
If there is any actual gold in heaven it will be eternal and purified in nature, whether from a resurrected planet or some other eternal source.
And it won't be because of its monetary value that it would be used.

Materialism doesn't even enter into it.

How do you view or imagine heaven? For me it's beautiful meadows and flowers of all colors and green grass and nature, with of course cities but nicer looking than what we have on earth.

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

How do you view or imagine heaven? For me it's beautiful meadows and flowers of all colors and green grass and nature, with of course cities but nicer looking than what we have on earth.

My British side wants peaceful country lanes, autumn meadows with haystacks, an eternal harvest time.
But everyone has a different view of heaven - some might love the golden desert, red rocks, and expansive blue skies.  Some would definitely require an ocean view.

[Calm]

Given the time period most scriptures were written in, they probably had a bit different view of nature than you do assuming you have a typical American life where Nature is highly controlled and limited and you don't look at that meadow and wonder how much food you can get out of it so your family won't starve, etc.

The use of gold, rubies, etc is more about conveying infinite glory than suggesting God has the ultimate treasure city.

[Calm]

Also probably God's rule and power over all things and people.

[VideoGameJunkie]

55 minutes ago, Calm said:

Also probably God's rule and power over all things and people.

That could be true. The worst letdown would be if heaven is just clouds. Nothing but clouds.

[VideoGameJunkie]

But I'm pretty sure what was seen in the Book of Revelation was all symbolic, not literal.

[Guest]

18 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Right, but it just seems odd that we're taught throughout life to not be materialistic and then we have scripture of heaven describing streets paved with gold, gold crowns on people's heads, and rubys and jasper surrounding heaven. I guess heaven is supposed to look fancy, but it just seems odd that it's so proudly displayed in heaven, and we're considered greedy and materialistic if we are fascinated with that stuff in mortality. That's what I'm mainly getting at. I don't like materialism.

You will notice that John uses descriptive terms that he and his readers understand to describe things that he can't completely understand or describe. He says, "They appear..." or "Have the appearance of..." or "Look like..." 

So, the description of something that is Gold or materialistic in nature (as gold streets) may or may not be that. It may be something far better and John doesn't have words for anything better than "Gold" or "Glass" so those are the words he uses to describe what he's seeing. 

Greed and materialism is the worship of those things and not the worship of it's creator who is God. 

[danielwoods]

Oh that was me ^^^ 

I didn't know one could post as a guest... now I know. oops. 

[thesometimesaint]

Sitting on thrones is a representation of power and glory.