Tacenda Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 10 hours ago, Ahab said: It irks me when you and others keep talking as if the Church doesn't want you to continue to love the man you have sex with. It's as if you just keep ignoring my and others' efforts to correct that false idea. We do want you to love him. Even more than you do now. And it's all fine and dandy with us if that man stays in your life until death do you part. We just want you to stop having sex with him and every other man because sexual relations between people of the same sex is not good. Why is everything about sex in this church? That's an exaggeration but it seems to be a big hang up with the church.
Calm Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 6 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Why is everything about sex in this church? That's an exaggeration but it seems to be a big hang up with the church. Because it is a big hangup with the world (or at least the US and Russia, Canada maybe not so much). Have you looked at what is on TV nowadays, including commercials? The Church is not the one making sex front and center in everyone's lives. It is trying to help deal with the damage that such culture creates. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 19 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Why is everything about sex in this church? That's an exaggeration but it seems to be a big hang up with the church. The Law of Chastity is serious and sex is reserved only for those who are legally and lawfully wedded in marriage.
california boy Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 14 hours ago, Ahab said: It irks me when you and others keep talking as if the Church doesn't want you to continue to love the man you have sex with. It's as if you just keep ignoring my and others' efforts to correct that false idea. We do want you to love him. Even more than you do now. And it's all fine and dandy with us if that man stays in your life until death do you part. We just want you to stop having sex with him and every other man because sexual relations between people of the same sex is not good. Well I am not sure what the "official" position of the church is, but both my bishop and stake president told me that I was not allowed to live with a male room mate. I was also told I should not kiss or hold hands or show any kind of affection. I was also told that I could not date since all of those things lead to more intimate relationships. To be quite frank, when I was trying to work out if there was any possible way to stay connected with the church and still have some kind of life, I realized that was impossible. I actually also asked them if I could have a woman room mate. They said no to that as well. Apparently there is the issue of appearance of wrongdoing that had them concerned. So it is not just about sex. It is about any kind of personal romantic relationship with someone of the same sex. Yeah kinda irked me as well. 2
Meadowchik Posted February 11, 2016 Author Posted February 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Tacenda said: Why is everything about sex in this church? That's an exaggeration but it seems to be a big hang up with the church. It's true what Calm days...sex is a huge focus in the world, huge business, too, and it is an enormous fulcrum on the individual level, affecting people personally. Nothing as concerned with the personal well being of people as churches are can avoid it if they are to be very relevant to that well-being.
Meadowchik Posted February 11, 2016 Author Posted February 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Calm said: Because it is a big hangup with the world (or at least the US and Russia, Canada maybe not so much). Have you looked at what is on TV nowadays, including commercials? The Church is not the one making sex front and center in everyone's lives. It is trying to help deal with the damage that such culture creates. It is big everywhere in one way or another. I was just in Amsterdam, where prostitution is legal. Took a wrong turn and landed in the Red Light District after dark. We were very grateful a policeman could help us get back on our path. But it was remarkable...at one pedestrian intersection, there must have been hundreds of people milling around. I did a double take to check: they seemed to be mostly young men with a negligible number of females, except for the ones in the windows! ....a bastion of liberal tolerance and people are still--of course--hung up on sex. 1
Meadowchik Posted February 11, 2016 Author Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 2:16 AM, california boy said: Thanks for your comment. Really. I have no doubt you would welcome me into your ward. But I don't really think the church wants me to be there. Labeling gays apostates makes it pretty clear that there is no place for gay couples that are in a relationship, especially one that is so meaningful in their lives. The church could have approached gay couples with a more open tent policy, encouraging them to be as much of the gospel as they possibly could. Perhaps in time the couple would continue to progress in the gospel. But labeling them apostates is pretty clear, that is not the approach they encourage. i agree with Smac's comments. The only gays welcome in the church are celibate ones. The rest and their children that live with them are not. Thank you, too. Church teachings tend to support the spreading of gospel blessings beyond church membership as freely as possible. Quoting you, "The church could have approached gay couples with a more open tent policy, encouraging them to be as much of the gospel as they possibly could. Perhaps in time the couple would continue to progress in the gospel." I really do believe this is what the church is trying to do. The indications seem to be there to me. The policy is imo an attempt to clearly communicate that such inclusiveness is not movement in doctrine. It's only fair to do your best to be open, to try to ensure that participation on either side is not based on false pretenses. Edited February 11, 2016 by Meadowchik
Ahab Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 15 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said: The Law of Chastity is serious and sex is reserved only for those who are legally and lawfully wedded in marriage. Not just that, but our marriages also need to be the type of marriage that our Father approves of. We are his children and he has the right to tell us the right way to do it. A legal and lawful marriage these days can still be an abominable thing that isn't something our Father approves of. 1
Ahab Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 12 hours ago, california boy said: Well I am not sure what the "official" position of the church is, but both my bishop and stake president told me that I was not allowed to live with a male room mate. I was also told I should not kiss or hold hands or show any kind of affection. I was also told that I could not date since all of those things lead to more intimate relationships. To be quite frank, when I was trying to work out if there was any possible way to stay connected with the church and still have some kind of life, I realized that was impossible. I actually also asked them if I could have a woman room mate. They said no to that as well. Apparently there is the issue of appearance of wrongdoing that had them concerned. So it is not just about sex. It is about any kind of personal romantic relationship with someone of the same sex. Yeah kinda irked me as well. That sounds to me like they were only speaking as men, rather than as prophets, if they were really telling you that there was no way for you to have a roommate. If I were you I'd just make sure not to have sexual or romantic relations with anyone unless or until I could find a good woman to marry, and then only have sex with her. And I'd have as many friends, both male and female, as I could have in my life forever.
USU78 Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) On 2/3/2016 at 9:56 AM, smac97 said: Here's a sincere question, which I present for responses from any and all points of view: What things should faithful Latter-day Saints do or not do in order to show "an increase in love" toward people with homosexual orientations while not abandoning or disregarding or diminishing the importance of The Law of Chastity as taught by the leaders of the LDS Church? D&C 121:43: Quote Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; So ... are we to reprove such with sharpness, and only thereupon show an "increase of love," or are we prohibited from reproving? [/Back to Lurk] Edited February 11, 2016 by USU78 Formatting problem
The Nehor Posted February 11, 2016 Posted February 11, 2016 21 hours ago, Tacenda said: Why is everything about sex in this church? That's an exaggeration but it seems to be a big hang up with the church. Actually we do not talk about that often. It is just one of those areas where we and everyone else disagree a lot so when we say no to something it seems like an obsession. I knew an alcoholic member convinced we were obsessed with alcohol. It was not us obsessed with it, it was him. 2
Russell C McGregor Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 On 11/02/2016 at 0:55 PM, The Nehor said: Actually we do not talk about that often. It is just one of those areas where we and everyone else disagree a lot so when we say no to something it seems like an obsession. I knew an alcoholic member convinced we were obsessed with alcohol. It was not us obsessed with it, it was him. Indeed. And a corollary of that is the phenomenon whereby those who've apostatised over some factoid or other (including, but not limited to, those who've actually left the Church) accuse the Church of "covering up" the subject of their obsession because it isn't the main topic of every Conference talk.
california boy Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 On February 11, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Ahab said: That sounds to me like they were only speaking as men, rather than as prophets, if they were really telling you that there was no way for you to have a roommate. If I were you I'd just make sure not to have sexual or romantic relations with anyone unless or until I could find a good woman to marry, and then only have sex with her. And I'd have as many friends, both male and female, as I could have in my life forever. Do you know of any statements from the big 15 that gays are allowed to do? Can they date? Can they kiss? Can they live together? Can they hold hands? Can they fall in love?
Ahab Posted February 16, 2016 Posted February 16, 2016 On 2/11/2016 at 10:21 PM, california boy said: 12 hours ago, california boy said: Do you know of any statements from the big 15 that gays are allowed to do? Can they date? Can they kiss? Can they live together? Can they hold hands? Can they fall in love? As long as there Is no sexual relationship and no romance between people of the same sex there should be no problem at all with them being roommates and loving each other. Missionaries of the same sex often share their home together and they love each other. Many others of the same sex do that as well. The key is to just leave sexual relations between people of the same sex out of the picture, with none of that kind of thing going on between them, as there never should be. Sorry I don't know of any statements from the 15 that would corroborate my testimony but I don't need that from them anyway since I have my own direct connection to God.
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