savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Mormons don't think they are saved?
JLHPROF Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Mormons don't think they are saved? Of course we do. Saved means the opposite of lost. In this case saved from the grave. None are lost but the sons of perdition. All others will be resurrected. But all will not be equal in the resurrection. Edited January 25, 2016 by JLHPROF
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Mormons don't think they are saved? Neither did Paul. If Paul already was "Saved"... why was he still trying to "win" the ressurection and become perfect "working for his salvation" YEARS after the fact? Phil 38 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung (skubala is the greek equivalent of the English S**T), that I may win Christ,9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, Zakuska said: Neither did Paul. Phil 3 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of thedead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were alreadyperfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but thisone thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. You misread this passage. Paul is already saved. He is looking to be in the 1st resurrection to return and reign with Christ during the 1000 years. That's the prize. "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection" (Phil. 3.10). Paul declared that the one reason for his counting all things as loss was to know the power of resurrection. He did not say to know resurrection because resurrection was known at the moment he believed in the Lord. Rather, on the subjective side, he knew he must forsake all things before he could know the power of the resurrection of Christ.
JAHS Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, savedwheat said: You will know just by asking yourself if you believe in Jesus and you will realized you never did believe in Him. So using the same logic i can ask myself if I believe in Christ and if I realize that I do, then it means I am saved? I guess I am saved then. I believe in the Jesus of the Bible; but not your interpretation of who Jesus is.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 22 minutes ago, Sevenbak said: Which is it, you can't have both... Revelation 20:12-1312 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Since salvation is not by works anyone judged by their works will not be saved because they were not good enough unless they accept who Jesus truly is. Since Mormons reject Jesus who created all things and who is the I AM as the Father is too, and they reject God was alone from everlasting then they remain unsaved.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, savedwheat said: You misread this passage. Paul is already saved. He is looking to be in the 1st resurrection to return and reign with Christ during the 1000 years. That's the prize. "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection" (Phil. 3.10). Paul declared that the one reason for his counting all things as loss was to know the power of resurrection. He did not say to know resurrection because resurrection was known at the moment he believed in the Lord. Rather, on the subjective side, he knew he must forsake all things before he could know the power of the resurrection of Christ. No you misread there are only two resurrections spoken of in scripture and neither one has anything to do with "beleif". What ressurection one receives has everything to do with ones "works". John 5 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska 1
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 savedwheat do you believe in once saved always saved ?. Thank you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Anakin7 said: savedwheat do you believe in once saved always saved ?. Thank you. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Yes he does believe in the devilish heresy of OSAS . He quoted John 10:28 several times.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since salvation is not by works anyone judged by their works will not be saved because they were not good enough unless they accept who Jesus truly is. If that's true then why was Paul working to attain the resurrection of the Just? All men... Just and Unjust, Greek and Hebrew, Christian and Buddhist, Beleiver and Unbeleiver, bond or free, male and female, alike ALL will be judged by their works. No one is immune. 2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Is this true savedwheat you are OSAS ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Anakin7 said: Is this true savedwheat you are OSAS ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 I'll let him answer. Anakin. But the OP says it all... Quote Salvation by works is further seen in an Apostate Mormon going to Hell whereas in Christianity once saved always saved "they shall never perish" (John 10.28). Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Paul is talking about resurrection life. He is not saying he is not saved yet. He already has eternal life which is eternal, can never be lost. Everything Mormons think is wrong.
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Paul is talking about resurrection life. He is not saying he is not saved yet. He already has eternal life which is eternal, can never be lost. I have no idea what this "resurrection life" thing/myth is you're talking about. Because Paul only speaks of 2 ressurections. One that happens before the 1000 year resurrection and one the happens after it. If Paul already had/has it... then there was no reason what so ever for him to "reach forward" for something he had already "attained". He would already be "Perfect". Yet he himself claims he isn't "Perfect" yet. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” John 11.25 It is no longer I that live but Christ lives in me by the Holy Spirit. Paul talks about more than 1 resurrection as there are several not just two you mistakenly tought. The first resurrection is the reward of reigning during the millennial kingdom; an out resurrection from the generation rapture and resurrection. Not all believers receive this reward of being in the 1st resurrection. Edited January 25, 2016 by savedwheat
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 My spirit has been resurrected that's why I have resurrection life. It's the life in Christ after you are born-again. First you need to be born-again.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 20.5 "The first resurrection"—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the "best" resurrection.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 "The second death" of 20.6 is in contrast with "the first resurrection", because the latter means to enjoy glory while the former means to suffer eternally. Hence the first resurrection is none other than the time of recompense (Luke 14.14, 20.34-36).
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the "out-resurrection" from among the dead, which is this "best" resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord. Poster removed
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, savedwheat said: “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:” John 11.25 It is no longer I that live but Christ lives in me by the Holy Spirit. Paul talks about more than 1 resurrection as there are several not just two you mistakenly tought. The first resurrection is the reward of reigning during the millennial kingdom; an out resurrection from the generation rapture and resurrection. Not all believers receive this reward of being in the 1st resurrection. ROFL! You are just making stuff up now savedwheat. No where in scripture is an "out ressurection" spoken of. Edited January 25, 2016 by Zakuska
Calm Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, savedwheat said: 20.5 "The first resurrection"—This does not necessarily mean that there is only one resurrection, nor does it denote that there are many resurrections. It simply signifies this as being the "best" resurrection. Did you not promise to abide by the rules of the board when you joined? Was this a lie? If not, why are not you providing links to the material you are taking from others and instead essentially stealing their work? 1
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, savedwheat said: What Paul says in Philippians 3.11 is not an expecting to be raised from the dead (for all the dead shall be resurrected), nor an anticipating the resurrection of the spirit (for the resurrection of the spirit is already accomplished at the time of new birth). No, what Paul is looking forward to is the "out-resurrection" from among the dead, which is this "best" resurrection spoken of here in 20.5, even a reigning with the Lord. I was un aware a "spirit" could be resurrected since resurrection literaly means a spirit being united again with its body.
The Nehor Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: Paul is talking about resurrection life. He is not saying he is not saved yet. He already has eternal life which is eternal, can never be lost. Everything Mormons think is wrong. At least we have demonstrated the capacity to think. I am still waiting on that from you. All your attacks in us are sloppy seconds from old or badly written websites.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Zakuska said: I was un aware a "spirit" could be resurrected since resurrection literaly means a spirit being united again with its body. The Bible says those who are saved our spirit touches the heavenlies. It can do that because we are not asleep.
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: Paul is talking about resurrection life. He is not saying he is not saved yet. He already has eternal life which is eternal, can never be lost. Everything Mormons think is wrong. I think you're a scriptural genius.
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