savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: No, scientists do not know that fairly accurately. It is based on an incredibly small sample size and they acknowledge that. If I am behind the times you are taking a vacation from the space time continuum. I did not say anything like that about people prior to the 1800s and you are stupid for thinking I did. Then you devolve off into weird conclusions based on asinine assumptions. So if one planet shows God's glory better then two then no planets would show his glory even better. Therefore I can conclude that you do not exist. This is something of a relief. Yes scientists do know. You are behind the times. We know the universe is exactly 13.8 billion years old and there are 10^24 planets. But as we have seen for all the Mormon gods and I think I was being conservation there needs to be 10^99 planets. Yet none are habitable anyway. That makes no sense to think no planets is better than one. One is perfect. You get the whole package of the human race. God wants our existence on one planet not non-existence on no planet. Your reasoning seems ridiculous you think no planets is better than one just because one is better than two. So nobody gets to be a god of a planet before 1800? Is that fair? I also think it is unfair to have a missing church for 1800 years and then all of a sudden throw on everyone a changing of meaning on all terms in the 19th century. That seems so weird.
savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Just now, The Nehor said: I would cast out the tricky devil masquerading as an angel of light. Thanks for your answer so you would reject the Jesus I described for eternity, and not repent, just as I suspected.
savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 These are problems too difficult to overcome in your faith. You haven't solved the math problem, salvation by works for a better standing in heaven (atheist survival of the fittest) rather than a heaven not based on works for salvation or better standing. God alone from everlasting, none beside Him. Jesus created everything. Jesus is God and God is God so Trinity is true.. You will be banned if you continue to plagiarize throughout threads. When using someone elses work provide a reference.
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 8 hours ago, Zakuska said: ImytThose who "crucify Christ a new" don't lose Salvation? Not according to Hebrews 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. Believers who fail to bring forth "Works (aka fruits) to Perfection" are cadt into the fire. "Once saved always saved" is a devilish myth. Exactly. It's just more inserting things into the scriptures that isn't there while ignoring what is. How can we be judged by our works? Moreover even he thinks certain works are necessary or he wouldn't be telling us to give up what he claims is pride or choosing his beliefs. Both of which are require action on our part
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 7 hours ago, savedwheat said: John 10.28 disagrees with you "they shall never perish". It would be a weird kind of salvation if you could get saved, lose it, get it back, lose it again, on and on. Nobody believes for awhile but gave their life to Christ to be kept so He always keeps them believing. You can't crucify anew that's the point. So we should ignore the Bible because you don't like it?
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 7 hours ago, savedwheat said: Nothing in the Bible about salvation after you die. You're asleep get resurrected judged. You won't repent if you rejected Jesus before you died. Really? The how did the theif meet Christ in paradise the day he died when he didn't rise till three days later? Why did Paul argue for the resurrection using baptism for the dead? Why did he argue that ifnwe have faith in Christ only for this life we are most miserable?
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: You had your entire life to decide. That's why I still have never met anyone past the age of 40 who gave their life to Christ. That is the biggest reach I have ever seen sun, moon, stars now multiple different heavens? There is one New City and rewards are done away with and the saved are all pillars of the New City. Period. It would seem cold hearted to add different heavens based on works to get there and if your works aren't good enough you drop down even all the way to Hell. Whereas a loving God always keeps His elect and never lets them go. That is love. You've never seen anyone give their life to Christ over the age of 40? How sad. I've met many people come to Christ at all ages of their life. Maybe the problem isn't the people but the message you teach. See when you teach the Gospel of Christ the Spirit testifies to the hearer. He changes their heart and enlightens the mind. And He does this at any age
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: They are never going to repent. Why? Because you say so. God doesn't write people off so easily. Nor is He so powerless.
Gillebre Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: Thanks for your answer so you would reject the Jesus I described for eternity, and not repent, just as I suspected. I have been thoroughly stunned as to the ability of man to grossly misunderstand. Satan really does a great job at his craft. I suppose we'll find out eventually which is right, with 100% certainty I mean. The end will come, and we will be judged by God. savedwheat, let's turn your question to Nehor around. You die and are judged by God, and He reveals to you that you had His Gospel entirely and utterly wrong, that you misunderstood almost every message He was trying to get across. Jesus tells you that He did appear, with His Father, to Joseph Smith and that you have erred greatly. Do you repent and turn back to Him as He then presents Himself to you? Can you acknowledge your mistakes in this hypothetical scenario, humble yourself, and accept the Jesus who has appeared to you? I'd really be interested in your answer.
Zakuska Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, savedwheat said: They are never going to repent. Jonah repented after he died and went to hell. Jonah 2 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. And the Lord released him from hell. Edited January 24, 2016 by Zakuska
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: Let's be serious. Hypothetically my Jesus presents Himself to you. Would you accept Him or reject Him? He says He always existed for eternity before time and space, the 2nd Person of the Godhead. The Trinity is One Being in 3 Persons. He created all things. And there was none beside Him or before Him, in the event you believe like Joseph Smith taught all gods use to be men and they were begotten by their gods on and on for an eternity of the past. So seriously would you accept Him and repent of what you now believe? I theorize like everyone who is not saved who comes to the GWT that they won't repent and nor will you accept the Jesus I presented. Like you have already indicated you will assume is joking. But when you get over the initial shock He is not joking will you repent of Mormonism and accept Him? Remember this is just hypothetical but trying to get a genuine response from you. I would reject "your Jesus". I agree with the Nehor - "cast out the tricky devil masquerading as an angel of light" I find nothing worthy of worship in a being so far removed in his nature from his creations. I find nothing to worship in an incomprehensible being. The God and Christ of Mormonism are far more worthy of worship and esteem. 1
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 16 hours ago, savedwheat said: How can you go to Hell and telestial at the same time? By the way the moon is a moon, start is a star, they aren't pointing to different heavens. That's goofy. The Bible teaches salvation is now, eternal life now (John 17.3) whoever is born again. That is not a comforting feeling not knowing you will be saved like all other religions. Whereas believers know we are saved now which can ever be lost. If works has no impact how is that someone could be a Mormon then become an apostate Mormon? In Christianity Lord, Lord both are saved, but one receives reward of reigning the other not. The meek are weak. I guess Paul was just being his goofy self in his letter to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead..... That Paul... what a kidder!! P.S. It's called an analogy.
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 15 hours ago, savedwheat said: Your scriptures conflict with the Bible that salvation, that is, initial, which can never be lost, is a once for all. So if I accept Christ I'm saved. And if I go out and murder some one tomorrow I'm still saved. How does that work?
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, busybee said: I guess Paul was just being his goofy self in his letter to the Corinthians. 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead..... That Paul... what a kidder!! P.S. It's called an analogy. The explain of verse 40 is verse 41 and 42. You don't need an explanation of an explanation. You're reading into this that which is not there just like Calvinists do to get their cult following. Nothing about 3 kingdoms, celestial, terrestrial, telestial. Telestial is just a made up word by Swedenborg (who was not a Christian) of TE(rrestrial) + (cel)LESTIAL
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, busybee said: So if I accept Christ I'm saved. And if I go out and murder some one tomorrow I'm still saved. How does that work? It shows you were never saved to begin with; you were just kidding yourself.
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 savedwheat 1 minute ago, savedwheat said: It shows you were never saved to begin with; you were just kidding yourself. savedwheat, what form of religion do you worship? Are you an Evangelist? Baptist?
JAHS Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 minute ago, savedwheat said: It shows you were never saved to begin with; you were just kidding yourself. How do you know when you have done something bad enough to no longer consider yourself saved? Where is the line that must be crossed?
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 You will know just by asking yourself if you believe in Jesus and you will realized you never did believe in Him.
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, savedwheat said: It shows you were never saved to begin with; you were just kidding yourself. So once you're saved you never sin again? Must be awesome to be perfect!!
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 To quote the prophet Jay-Z, I got 99 problems but Telestial ain't one.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 If you believe in different heavens and it takes works to get there then you believe in salvation by works, but the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so that would tell me the Mormon is not saved. Another reason is that a Mormon can still go to Hell apparently by being an apostate Mormon, whereas the Bible teaches once saved always saved (John 10.28). So it seems nothing much agrees in Mormonism with Christianity, yet the 66 books of the Bible are God's inherent word, perfect and unchanging.
JLHPROF Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, savedwheat said: If you believe in different heavens and it takes works to get there then you believe in salvation by works, but the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so that would tell me the Mormon is not saved. Another reason is that a Mormon can still go to Hell apparently by being an apostate Mormon, whereas the Bible teaches once saved always saved (John 10.28). So it seems nothing much agrees in Mormonism with Christianity, yet the 66 books of the Bible are God's inherent word, perfect and unchanging. I think you need to study God's word a bit more. You sound like this young lady. Everything EXCEPT the work Christ asked to be done. Edited January 25, 2016 by JLHPROF
Zakuska Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, savedwheat said: If you believe in different heavens and it takes works to get there then you believe in salvation by works, but the Bible says salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so that would tell me the Mormon is not saved. Another reason is that a Mormon can still go to Hell apparently by being an apostate Mormon, whereas the Bible teaches once saved always saved (John 10.28). So it seems nothing much agrees in Mormonism with Christianity, yet the 66 books of the Bible are God's inherent word, perfect and unchanging. Too bad the word "saved" or "salvation" doesn't appear in the verse.
Sevenbak Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 14 minutes ago, savedwheat said: ...you believe in salvation by works, but the Bible says salvation is not by works.... ...The Bible are God's inherent word, perfect and unchanging. Which is it, you can't have both... Revelation 20:12-1312 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
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