LDS Apostle: Policy on same-sex couples was revelation from God

[rockpond]

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

According to President Nelson, and I believe him, this policy is the result of revelation that followed extensive study and analysis of the “questions that have arisen,” as Elder Cristofferson called them.

There was no need to preface or emphasize its revelatory origin to its original, intended audience. After that, emphasizing its revelatory origin in the early days of media and public reaction would not have answered the question of the day, which was “why that was necessary” The Church addressed the questions respectfully a with relevancy. To say, "It was revelation" would not have answered those questions. And anyone asking these questions would have a) understood it came by revelation; b) doubted it came by revelation; c) didn't consider whether it came by revelation or not; or d) wouldn't have been helped with a discourse on revelation so as to understand what revelation means in the LDS Church.

With the passage of time, we will now sometimes hear of rationale and sometime hear of revelation, and sometimes both, depending on the context for which such statements are made.

No need to preface or emphasize its revelatory origin?  Really?  Given all the concern and heartache from faithful members when this policy was published, you don't think explaining that it was the mind and will of the Lord, directly revealed to the prophet would have been important?

[rockpond]

It breaks my heart that the first time in my memory that a member of the 12 claimed direct revelation from God revealing His mind and will to the prophet was to enact a policy excluding gays and their children from full fellowship in the church.  That's it.  That's the prophetic revelation I've waited my whole life to hear?

[Sleeper Cell]

34 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I agree...I am still waiting for everybody to just blame Dehlin for all this...again. 

 

33 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 I just hope some souls out there won't take their lives, that believe President Monson. Thinking they can't live up to what is asked them.  Hopefully not one soul, but if the past is an example...too late 

Words fail me.

[Zakuska]

Just now, rockpond said:

It breaks my heart that the first time in my memory that a member of the 12 claimed direct revelation from God revealing His mind and will to the prophet was to enact a policy excluding gays and their children from full fellowship in the church.  That's it.  That's the prophetic revelation I've waited my whole life to hear?

Tell me about it.

Usually revelations are good news... like... God has extended forgiveness and the full hand of fellowship to those filthy Heathen nations. And lets them more or lesson continue in their Heathen ways and eat Shell fish and such.

[smac97]

4 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

Paul rebucced Peter Publicly for far less.

Gal 4

 

I'm not familiar with the word "rebucced."  Can you clarify?

[Jeanne]

23 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Jeanne,

> If JS and Moroni wrote things down...it is knowledge/revelation.  

==And if they didn't write things down, it's *also* revelation.

==And if they write revealed knowledge down but don't disseminate the specific writing to the Saints, it's still revelation.

> By "after the fact"  I meant that after the policy was put in place in November..it doesn't become an official revelation until last night..

==I don't think that's right.  I wrote a rather extensive post about "doctrines" and "principles" and "applications."  Did you read it?

> and that isn't even from Pres. Monson himself.  

==Are you suggesting that the President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles is . . . a renegade?  That he is acting at odds with President Monson?  That he is in a state of rebellion?  I'm not sure what you are saying here.

> The people in the church are not getting things straignt..

==What does *that* mean?  Are you accusing the Brethren of dishonesty?

> and if they do..it is late.  

==It is?  What metric are you using to determine such a thing?

> One can write things down all day..but is it a policy??  Or the kind of revelation that JS got time and time again...written down.  People..this is silly.  

==I think you are not giving the Brethren a fair shake.  Really.  I also don't think you have given much effort to studying and understanding The Law of Common Consent and other salient portions of the Gospel.  If you had, I don't think your argument would be reduced to something as vague and feelzy as "this is silly."

> What has happened here is that people are hurting on a common sense issue that requires compassion.  

==Agreed.  I don't think Elder Nelson, or any of the other Brethren, have demonstrated a *lack* of compassion.  Are you suggesting othewise?  If so, CFR.

> Could any of you...outside all that we have all talked about for two months..sit down as a Bishop..look two people in the eye with a baby cradled in their arms and say..No..we can't not have your child blessed.  Seriously..could you do that?  

==Yes.  It would be sad and difficult, but I could and would do it.  I would likewise tell an unmarried couple who wanted to join the Church that they will first have to get married or else stop living with each other.  The pain comes not from the Law of Chastity, but from the couple's inability/unwillingness to adhere to it.

==Church leaders can and do face tough circumstances like this.  All.  The.  Time.  I have personally participated in disciplinary councils where the individual *really* does not want to be disfellowshipped or excommunicated, but who has engaged in conduct that might require such discipline.  These are unpleasant duties, but they are also necessary duties.

==So with respect, I'm not going to be able to agree with a line of reasoning essentially that "We can't administer or not administer the ordinances of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, or otherwise manage the affairs of the Church and apply its doctrines and policies, if doing so hurts someone's feelings."  That seems to be what you are proposing.  And that is simply not a workable course of conduct.

> This is probably a question that goes through many peoples minds as they try to understand.  

==The key phrase here is "try to understand."  I don't think there is enough of this "try[ing] to understand" thing.  The Church cannot function when its doctrines and policies and such are administered based on . . . emotion.  The Feelz.  Christ did not forgive the woman taken in adultery.  He showed compassion and love.  But in the moment, with that poor woman lying before him on the ground, covered in dust and tears, terrified that she was about to be killed for her transgression . . . He did not forgive her.  He did not disregard the Gospel.  He applied it.  He did *not* say "Hey, that whole adultery thing is just fine.  Keep going with it!  Celebrate it!  You're all good!"  Instead, with love and with concern for her, He said: "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

==I suppose it would've been easier for him to disregard her sin.  But doing so would mean that the Lord is not really serious when He speaks of things like obedience, faith, repentence, The Law of Chastity, and so on.  So He applies the Gospel and requires His followers to adhere to it.  And He has commanded His servants to do the same in his stead.  It is hard for those servants to do such things.  It really is.  I have personally observed good and decent men grapple with meting out church discipline.  But they do it.  

> What kind of revelation is that?  Is it really a revelation from God or something that will shift the stance of this horrific policy?  

=="Horrific?"  Really?

> And blaming people for not know for sure is contradicting to the nature of personal revelation.  

==I do not understand this statement.

> There are so many things that could be revealed..other than this.  

==And yet the Lord has revealed . . . this.

> There shouild be no policy for being loving and welcoming to this church..

==Agreed.  But we're not talking about "being loving and welcoming."  We are speaking of administering the Ordinances of God, in which ordinances "the power of godliness is manifest."  (D&C 84:20).

==So how do you propose for all this to work out?  What about a person who has violated the Law of Chastity, who doesn't attend Church, who doesn't pay tithing, but who really, really wants to get married in the Temple.  Are you going to present his as a sob story and insist that the Church disregard what it understands to be the Lord's will about standards of temple worthiness?  Are you going to accuse the Brethren of not "being loving and welcoming" if such a fellow is first required to adhere to the same standards of behavior that are required for all other Latter-day Saints wanting to attend the temple?

> If we want revelations..ask God about ISIS..about real things that affect ALL of us!  Being kind doesn't need policy or revelation.  I see this as another way the church is covering its mistakes..and IMO it is a costly mistake.

==So you appear to be accusing Elder Nelson of lying.  He's not telling the truth.  His remarks last night were merely "another way the church is covering its mistakes."  And you are saying all of this publicly to the world.

==This is not, I think, how the Saints are supposed to behave.

Thanks,

-Smac

Respecting your response and feelings..I will just say this..and let it go.  If the church is not about being loving and compassionate and only about receiving ordinances, then no one should be inside those Temples.  I am not accusing Elder Nelson..but I am accusing the church and how it does things.  I feel like you are in fog and I am seeing things as they are.  Whatever..I will be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers..but neither does the church.  It has become confused since the essays and I feel for the membership. 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Jeanne

[smac97]

1 minute ago, Jeanne said:

Respecting your response and feelings..I will just say this..and let it go.  If the church is not about being loving and compassionate and only about receiving ordinanced, then no one should be inside those Temples.  I am not accusing Elder Nelson..but I am accusing the church and how it does things.  I feel like you are in fog and I am seeing things as they are.  Whatever..I will be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers..but neither does the church.  It has become confused since the essays and I feel for the membership. 

The Church *is* being loving and compassionate.  Unless "loving and compassionate" is some sort of code for "disregarding the commandments of God, and dispensing with any worthiness requirements for the ordinances given to us by God, in contravention of scriptural mandates."

I also guess that we'll have to disagree about who is seeing things clearly and who is not.  I'll not debate the point, though, and I instead wish you the best (though I hope you give some further thought to the points I have raised previously).

Thanks,

-Smac

[Jeanne]

11 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said:

 

Words fail me.

Are you okay?

[rockpond]

Let's also not forget that Pres. Nelson's talk was preceded by his wife's admonition to pray away the gay.

We're moving backwards.

[Sleeper Cell]

15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

You know..that is a real good question.  I would be anxious to find out too how that would have went..especially those on the board here who are supportive of this revelation,

Just to clarify, it is one thing for a person to reject a revelation because he doesn’t  believe it is from God, quite another for a person to reject it on the grounds of President Monson’s declining physical and mental abilities.  Especially if that person would have been quite willing to overlook these disabilities, had the revelation been more to their liking.  

[CV75]

10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

No need to preface or emphasize its revelatory origin?  Really?  Given all the concern and heartache from faithful members when this policy was published, you don't think explaining that it was the mind and will of the Lord, directly revealed to the prophet would have been important?

No, not at the time.That wasn't the question people were asking. Who among the four types of questioners would have suddenly changed his mind, concern or heartache with an unsolicited explanation?

[Sleeper Cell]

4 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Are you okay?

My friends would consider this an improvement.  

You can imagine what my enemies would say.

[thesometimesaint]

3 minutes ago, CV75 said:

5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Let's also not forget that Pres. Nelson's talk was preceded by his wife's admonition to pray away the gay.

We're moving backwards.

No, not at the time.That wasn't the question people were asking. Who among the four types of questioners would have suddenly changed his mind, concern or heartache with an unsolicited explanation?

If they don't believe the Truth Claims of the Church what good will praying do?

[Bob Crockett]

15 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Let's also not forget that Pres. Nelson's talk was preceded by his wife's admonition to pray away the gay.

We're moving backwards.

I doubt she used those terms.

As I have said many times before, anybody who has served as a stake president knows there are many saints in the church who struggle with Same Sex Attraction and yet uphold their covenants.  I've known one bishop personally and know of one general authority.  It is those who leave and attack who lead to the public perception that the Church is picking on homosexuals.   And they we get "pray away the gay" ridicule when, in fact, praying to withstand temptation is one-half of the Christian existence, the other half of which is surrendering to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

[Danzo]

After reading this and other threads, I still can't understand what the big deal is.

1.   The church has always (as long as I can remember) considered Homosexual behavior as a sin.

2.   In 1995, Gordon Hinckley Issued a proclamation that stated that

3.   The Church supported Several legislative efforts to stop the government (prop 8 and others) from changing the definition of marriage.

Its as if everyone is shocked that . . . . Nothing has changed! 

After this summer's supreme court decision I figured that there would be something in the handbook addressing it. What came out of it was more or less what I expected, (some people read more into it that I would have, but the intent was clarified).

No one in the church that I have personally talked to felt surprise, or shock or even disagreement, and why would they? It is the same thing that has been taught since as long as I can remember. 

I just can't see how anything of substance has changed since last year (or the last few decades)  I remember people being excommunicated for homosexual activity when I was a child in the 80's, there is nothing new going on here.

 

 

 

[Mystery Meat]

It is clear to me that folks who turn against the brethren lose the spirit. I can see it on this very thread where critics who once loved the Church and everything about it (more or less) are now indistinguishable from bitter, anti-mormons in their mean spirited misrepresentations. 

Folks, remember this: By their fruits, ye shall know them.

[Danzo]

21 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Let's also not forget that Pres. Nelson's talk was preceded by his wife's admonition to pray away the gay.

We're moving backwards.

I think your ridicule of prayer itself might be the best explanation for your lack of faith.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Danzo

[Sleeper Cell]

41 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

Tell me about it.

Usually revelations are good news... like... God has extended forgiveness and the full hand of fellowship to those filthy Heathen nations. And lets them more or lesson continue in their Heathen ways and eat Shell fish and such.

Like D&C 1?

For verily, the voice of the Lord is unto all men and there is none to escape …And the voice of warning shall be unto all people by the mouths of my disciples whom I have chosen in these last days … Wherefore fear and tremble, O ye people … And the anger of the Lord is kindled and his sword … shall fall on the inhabitants of the earth.   the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, … neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles shall be cut off from among the people … they seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness but every man walketh in his own way and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world…

[/quote]

Sounds like good news only if we repent.  

[stemelbow]

3 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

You did say that your feelings were based upon your own personal effort with God and the Spirit. The Brethren have a story in direct contradiction to you own struggles. And it has now been noted that it was via a revelation, You seem to be saying that either the Lord gave you a different, personal answer than He gave the Brethren, or that the Brethren have been deceived or are lying, or something of the sort. That is hardly standing with them.

It's one policy.  It's not either or for me.  Revelation is a tricky business, it seems to me.  We all could be wrong.

[filovirus]

2 hours ago, rockpond said:

And here we have it... the makings of the new 21st century definition of Common Consent.  It doesn't come from the body of the church, it's just the 15 men at the top.  If they announce something than we just assume that they have had a common consent.  Yeah for the Church!  So easy now.  We can save time and worry by not asking the body of the Christ to actually take matters to the Lord in prayer.  Just reaffirm your fealty to the Brethren.

Discourse by Elder Charles W. Penrose, the Word of the Lord to the Church Given Through the Authorities...

Various authors, Journal of Discourses, vol. 21 ( 1881)

We sustain our brethren of the twelve, as prophets, seers, and revelators; and I have heard it remarked by some brethren, that they could not see any need of doing so, and that holding up their hands does not make those men prophets, seers and revelators. That is true enough as far as it goes. But by sustaining these brethren in our customary way, we manifest to God and the powers behind the vail, who work with the brethren in the flesh, that we are willing to receive any revelation that the higher powers may see fit to communicate through them in that capacity. We have a great deal of principle and doctrine given to us through the means of the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, etc., with which we ought to make ourselves thoroughly familiar. At the same time we have men presiding over us in this Church through whom the word of the Lord will come in our present circumstances for our guidance and for the guidance of the whole Church in its onward march, as the exigencies of the case may require. And when we lift up our hands to heaven to sustain them, we manifest that we hold ourselves in readiness to receive the word of the Lord whenever he sees fit to impart it to us. They are the legal channels; they are the appointed receptacles to receive the words of the Lord for us as an organized body; and by lifting up our hands to heaven in this way, we show to God and to angels, that we are ready at any time, if the Lord has a word of revelation to communicate to us, to receive it, no matter how it may come; whether by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, or otherwise; by means of the Urim and Thummim, if he sees fit to restore it to the Church, which he will do as sure as we are gathered here to-day, and a man will stand up like unto Moses, who will communicate the word of the Lord unto us, line upon line and precept upon precept, until God brings forth everything needed for the building up of his work; and the things kept hidden from the foundation of the world will be brought forth, and all the ancient records that have been lost will be brought to light, by men through whom God shall operate by means of the Urim and Thummim as well as by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. We manifest to him by our uplifted hands that we will receive his word by inspiration, by the Urim and Thummim, or by revelation, or the ministration of angels, or in any way he may be pleased to communicate. It is fitting then that we should do this. We do not know when the Lord may have some new word for us. I am sorry to say we do not all know what is placed on record, for we do not often read it. Nevertheless the Lord may see fit to impart to us something not placed on record, and we should be ready and willing to receive every word of counsel, or instruction, or command, or rebuke that he may see fit to impart.

 

This doesn't seem to be the making of the 21st century. 1881 was 135 years ago. Common consent has been around for a while.

[filovirus]

1 hour ago, consiglieri said:

This is a disturbing trend--rewriting Church history and practice to claim common consent is not a vote from general membership.

More and more power and authority are being consolidated into the hands of a very few.

This generally leads to bad things . . .

So do you believe that when you sustain the prophet in GC, an election is taking place? What does Austin ng mean to you?

[stemelbow]

30 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

It is clear to me that folks who turn against the brethren lose the spirit. I can see it on this very thread where critics who once loved the Church and everything about it (more or less) are now indistinguishable from bitter, anti-mormons in their mean spirited misrepresentations. 

Folks, remember this: By their fruits, ye shall know them.

whose doing mean-spirited misrepresentation in this thread? 

[Zakuska]

Lets continue the discourse. "Sustaining" is much more than raising ones hand in assent and agreeing with everything a leader says...

It is necessary also that we should show to our brethren who are called to these various
offices that we are willing to sustain them. For they have not called
themselves, neither do they run for office; we are not office-seekers
in this Church. It is very generally the case that a man who seeks an
office is not a fit and proper person to occupy it. But [p.48] we are
trilling to receive any appointment or calling the Lord may see fit to
place us in; we are on hand, we are ready; but we are not
office-seekers. As I have said the men whom we Voted to sustain this
morning, the presidency of the stake, bishops, home missionaries,
etc., did not call themselves, but have been called to act in those
positions; and they are not paid for it either, that is in worldly
wealth. Of course they are blessed and paid, as every man is paid when
doing good, in the blessings pertaining to his calling. For every man
called to occupy any position can, if he seeks aright, obtain the
spirit of that calling, and in that there is peace and joy and
satisfaction, so that he is paid in his labors in any office which he
may be called to fill. But our brethren do not thrust themselves
forward to seek for position. Somebody else calls them, and we,
to-day, manifest our willingness to sustain them in those callings,
and to give them the benefit of our faith and prayers, and to assure
them that so far as we are placed under their counsel we will accept
it and act upon it. So this is a good work we do. It does not take a
great deal of time or labor and it is a fitting duty for Latter-day
Saints to perform, and I feel that we are privileged in so doing.

Vol. 21, p.48
As the children of God, we need to rally around our brethren who are
acting in the Various offices in this Church, and be one with them and
not only manifest this by lifting up our hands, but by really
sustaining them in the positions they are called to fill, so far as
lies within our power, each one taking an interest in these things,
each one feeling that he has a part in this matter. For this work does
not rest altogether upon those required to act in official positions,
but upon every individual called by the name of Latter-day Saint. Some
people think that the sphere of labor they are called to occupy, is
not a great one, that if they were called to occupy some office in the
Church they could accomplish more good and have something more to live
for. But I think we shall discover that if we are all anxious to fill
our sphere of action, we can find ample opportunity for the exercise
of those powers with which God has endowed as; every man and woman can
find a sphere of usefulness if they are desirous; each one can find
his or her own place, and we will all come to it by and by. I believe
it to be one of the powers and authorities of this priesthood that God
has revealed from heaven, to find out the place for which every
individual in the church is adapted, and to get them into place.

"A place for everything, and
Everything in its place."

Vol. 21, p.48
And the time will come when the Lord shall have established his Church
perfectly upon the earth, and all things move in their proper course,
that God will find a place adapted to every person, in which each will
have more joy than in any other place and be able to do more good to
the community than in any other. And we can find this measurably
to-day if we are desirous to do so. For there is an ample sphere of
labor for every man, and also for every woman, in this Church. Every
man in this house, this morning, whether bishop, teacher, or
missionary to preach the Gospel, can find something to do for the
exercise of the powers with which he is endowed, magnifying his office
or calling in the priesthood —for we  nearly all have some portion of
the priesthood. If we seek for the spirit of that calling, we shall
[p.49] find plenty of opportunity for the exercise of its duties. But
the great difficulty is, many of us are content simply to be ordained
to the priesthood. "I am a high priest, or seventy, or an elder, as
the case may be, and am satisfied with my calling; and do not seek for
anything further." Now, my brethren, there are privileges and powers
pertaining to these callings—and we can read about them here in this
book (Doctrine and Covenants), and what the various duties are of
these different callings in the priesthood. The powers of the Aaronic
priesthood reach out a great way, for we are told that that priesthood
holds the keys of the ministration of angels. I wonder how many there
are who obtain such a blessing as this? I do not know whether we are
fit for communion with the higher powers, the beings sent forth to
"minister unto the heirs of salvation." But we read that the
Melchisedec priesthood contains greater powers than that. It not only
holds the keys of the ministration of angels, but of communion with
the heavenly Jerusalem, the general assembly and church of the
first-born with Jesus Christ the Mediator of the new covenant and God
the highest and holiest of all. And the time will come when under this
priesthood to those who hold this authority and calling, and have the
spirit of it and minister in that spirit and obtain the power thereof,
the Lord will unveil his face and they shall gaze upon his glory. That
time will come, for there is no word of the Lord revealed but what
will come to pass. It may not come in the time and season we expect
it, or when we are looking for it; but we may be assured that
everything that God has promised by the power of the Holy Ghost
through his servants will come to pass in his due time. The time will
come when the servants of the living God will purify themselves before
him until they will be fit to receive these blessings. When that holy
temple is built in Zion God will take away the veil from the eyes of
his servants; and the day is yet to dawn when the sons of Moses and
Aaron, having become sanctified to the renewing of their bodies, will
administer in that holy house, and the veil will be taken away, and
they will gaze upon the glories of that world now unseen, and upon the
faces of beings now to them invisible; but it will be when they have
purified themselves from the evils of thin world, and are really the
servants of the living God, and temples of the Holy Ghost.

Vol. 21, p.49
We can get a measure of the spirit of this calling to-day, and by the
power thereof' we can have communion with our Father. Not only through
the living oracles in a Church capacity, but as individual members of
the Church we can come near unto the Lord, so that there will be no
barrier between us and him, and so that his Spirit can come upon us
freely, and the light of God can illuminate our souls and so direct us
that we may have the life and strength of this eternal priesthood. For
this priesthood is a reality and not a mere name; it is not a mere
calling in word, but an office which confers upon us power and
influence that comes from the Almighty. I know that men holding the
priesthood, and who magnify it and receive the spirit and power of it;
are different from other men, their influence and motives are
different, their feelings are different and the spirit and influence
they carry with them are different. Such men can go forth in the midst
of the wicked, enwrapped in the power and  [p.50] influence of their
priesthood, like the garments they wear, and be separate from the
world, and they can carry an influence in the world which other men
cannot carry. There is force in it, there is power and salvation in
it; and every man called to hold this priesthood should be a minister
of salvation in the midst of the earth. If he is not called to
minister abroad in the world, he can be a minister of peace and
righteousness at home; he can strengthen kite weak hands and confirm
the feeble knees, and drive away doubt from the sceptical mind bear
testimony to the truth which he has received and understands and
wherever he goes he can carry the Spirit and blessing of God that will
build the people together, and thus help to build up the kingdom of
God. And he will not spread contention or encourage any spirit which
would prompt men to speak evil of each other; he will not encourage
anything that savors of contention and strife and disunion, but, on
the contrary, will encourage all that tends to unite the people
together. And any man holding the priesthood has power to do that much
in the sphere which he is called to occupy. And also of speaking a
word in due season, and of standing in his calling and of being a
representative of the Most High God.

Vol. 21, p.50
And the sisters, too, have also a good, wide sphere. I was pleased to
see that the presidency of the Relief Society was presented and
sustained at this Conference. The sisters are one with the brethren in
their labors, and have duties peculiar to themselves, in carrying on
the work which God has given them to do. It has been well said, that
"Man is not without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the
Lord." And we shall find that through all eternity the sexes go
together, and that the female portion of God's children have a part
and a lot in this matter as well as the male. These Relief Societies
give opportunity for our sisters to do much good, and even those who
do not belong to the society have frequent opportunities for doing
good. Every mother has a field of usefulness at home among her own
children; this is her peculiar sphere. Do not let me be understood to
mean that woman should be a fixture in the house, to be tied up to a
table leg, or to a wash-tub. I think many of our sisters stay at home
too much. if they would make it their business to take more out-door
exercise they would find it a relief to the monotony of household
work. I do not believe that women should be tied up at home; but I say
that home is woman's peculiar sphere. She reigns there as queen; she
can make that home comfortable, peaceful and pleasant for the husband,
so that he would rather come there than any Other place on earth; and
that woman is foolish, I think, who does not do this. Women should
make their homes as comfortable as they can, with the means at their
command, that the husband, the children and all that belong to the
family may be glad to come home to enjoy the society of the family
circle. Right there is where a woman can exercise the great power God
has given unto her. What a blessing it is when the Lord gives to a
woman children, boys and girls born heirs to the covenant, heirs to
the holy priesthood, that they may grow up with natural rights to the
blessings of the priesthood; to become servants of the Most High; to
become vessels for the Holy  Spirit to dwell in; to become
representatives of the [p.51] Lord upon the earth; to become ministers
of salvation for the living and the dead! What a sphere for the labors
of these sisters, to train up the minds of their children in the fear
of the Lord; to teach the boys good principles; to teach them as well
as the girls to be virtuous, pure, chaste, and holy, for those that
are unholy cannot receive the fullness of the blessing and power of
God, that is, like those who keep themselves pure before him. And the
brethren can plant these ideas in the minds of their boys, and if not
fully at first, by and by they will be enabled to comprehend their
full meaning. Fathers should take all the time they can in instructing
their children but the mothers are with them so much more and have so
much greater influence over them in a certain direction, and therefore
they should seek to exercise their powers by training up their
children in the way they should go. And we are not required to train
them up by word and precept alone, but by example. If we do not want
our children to use strong drink, it will not do for us to use it. Try
therefore to set our children examples which we would feel perfectly
willing that they should imitate. Our sisters can work in this way
both by precept and example, and above all things by the spirit they
carry; they can impress the minds of the young and rising generation
so that they may grow up with a natural tendency to that which is
holy. Let girls be brought up by a mother who is full of kindness and
love and charity—which are much more beautiful adornments than the
glittering show of jewelry; earthly jewels are nothing in comparison
to those precious jewels of eternity, and all the finery that woman
could put on is nothing to the adornment of the mind which peculiarly
shines out in the mothers and daughters of Israel —let a mother be
embued with this good, kind, teachable spirit and she can surround her
children with it, she can have that spirit in the home where she
resides. And although she may have a great many cares and tribulations
and trials which may tempt her to anger, yet, she can conquer all the
passions that will rise up in her nature and subdue them, and can
train up her children in the midst of these adverse circumstances, in
the fear of God, and her tribulations will be turned to her good, and
it will be easy for her children to walk in the way of God, and they
will grow up with a natural repugnance for the things which are evil,
and a natural desire to receive in their hearts every thing that is
good. The Lord is saying to the north, "Give up; and to the south,
keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends
of the earth." He has brought us to this place from the nations of the
earth that we may become a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a
holy nation, a peculiar people zealous of good works. This is why he
has given unto us laws with regard to the marriage relations, that
Israel shall not marry Gentiles; that Israel shall wed Israel; that
the daughters of God shall marry the sons of God, etc., in order that
our children may be heirs to the blessings pertaining to the
everlasting covenant, that by and by there may be a race of men and
women upon the earth who will be holy unto the Lord, born with natural
desires in them to do right, which they have inherited from their
parents, who shall train them up in the way they should go, with that
holy atmosphere surrounding them, that they may be thoroughly under
the influence of the spirit that [p.52] comes from on high, that their
whole natures may be sensitive to the whisperings of Almighty God,
that they may grow up, his sons and daughters, and that it may be a
mark of honor that such and such men were "born in Zion." The Lord
will give honor unto such people. And their sons will go to nations
afar off and the earth will tremble under their voice, and evil
spirits that are deceiving the sons of men will flee before them, for
the power of the priesthood will be with them. And they will search
out the seed of Israel wherever they preach to them the Gospel in
their own tongue by the power of the Almighty for this the gift of
tongues was designed—and they will gather in the seed of Israel to the
Zion of our God. And he will be their strength; he will go before them
and be round about them. And our daughters will grow up pure and
virtuous, and the angels of God will be round about them. And the Lord
will multiply his people upon the earth until all things are
fulfilled, his kingdom will be built up, the Lord Jesus Christ will
come, and all that lies been spoken by the prophets will be brought to
pass.

 

http://www.vihrearouva.net/m/jod/21.txt

Edited January 11, 2016 by Zakuska

[Bob Crockett]

Common consent applies to sustaining of authorities and on very rare occasion the inclusion of things in the canon.  Common consent does not apply to what is and what is not a revelation.  That doesn't mean that, on occasion, a congregation may be asked to sustain a proclamation or some new revelation.  

As to canon, the Church has a view of canon that is quite different than anybody else's.  To me, canon means nothing more than what 8-year-olds carry about in their quads on Sunday and what the Church has approved for missionaries and leaders to carry about.  We believe in an open canon.  

As to sustaining of authorities, that is real.  Brigham Young went to Cedar City to release a stake president involved in the Mountain Meadows Massacre, William Dame.  Pres. Dame's stake would not sustain the release nor the new successor.  In a rage, Brigham Young left Cedar City but left Dame in place.  

Moreover, common consent does not mean that you, virus, need to sustain him/her/it for them to be true. 

Does this really mean to you that a revelation isn't one unless it is accepted by common consent:

D&C 26:   2 And all things shall be done by common consent in the church, by much prayer and faith, for all things you shall receive by faith. Amen.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Bob Crockett

[Zakuska]

9 minutes ago, filovirus said:

So do you believe that when you sustain the prophet in GC, an election is taking place? What does Austin ng mean to you?

A single 'Nay' vote can prevent someone from being installed in a calling.

Perhaps the person who voted Nay knows that the person being installed as a Primary teacher is on the local "Child Molester" list and the Bishop shouldn't be giving them said calling.

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by Zakuska